Do you have questions about Traditional Judaism?

[metis]

Peace be upon you,

I have a question I wish to be answered. So I know there are branches of Judaism & that they don't accept each other as legit.
Basically Orthodox is accepted by everyone, but they don't accept everyone else, is this true? And is it really like that in practice or just in theory? I mean like Orthodoxs walking around telling Reforms they are not real Jews, etc.

Thanks in advance.

As rosends well recognizes, I see things differently on this. To me, each branch can dictate its own terms for someone who is interesting in converting into their branch, but I think it's quite presumptuous to say that because someone may not qualify to convert into my branch, whatever that branch may be, that they're somehow not Jewish. It's not a magic show of some type, imo, it's really a matter of commitment to both Judaism and to the Jewish people, whatever branch they may belong to.

 

[RabbiO]

The vast majority of Jews today are not orthodox - their understanding of Jewish law is different from mine, both in its particular form and in its authority to govern day to day decisions. They would say, though, not that they aren't "keeping the law" but that the law and the acceptable way of being a Jew is more expansive than the Orthodox would dictate.

Nicely, and neutrally, said.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

^ well said.

 

[RabbiO]

To me, each branch can dictate its own terms for someone who is interesting in converting into their branch, but I think it's quite presumptuous to say that because someone may not qualify to convert into my branch, whatever that branch may be, that they're somehow not Jewish....

Just about anyone can qualify to convert within/under the auspices of any movement within Judaism.

I think what you were trying to say is that it is presumptuous for someone in one branch of Judaism to say that a person who did not convert under the auspices of that branch is not Jewish, is not a Jew.

Be that as it may, I have to take issue with what you have proposed. I am surprised that you do not see the problems that your approach entails.

 

[metis]

I think what you were trying to say is that it is presumptuous for someone in one branch of Judaism to say that a person who did not convert under the auspices of that branch is not Jewish, is not a Jew.

Ya, that, although I think your wording is even more confusing than mine. Are we redoing "Who's on first?".

Be that as it may, I have to take issue with what you have proposed. I am surprised that you do not see the problems that your approach entails.

The only area whereas I see a problem is with the Law of Return, but that really is a separate issue that can rather easily be ameliorated. Is there other area(s) whereas you see problem(s)?

BTW, why this area really hits an emotional note to me is for two reasons. One of them is that the overall nastiest disputes I've seen between Jews at various websites tend to be along the line of who is a "true Jew". The second is our experience with the NAZI's and some other bigoted people/groups in different countries in terms of us being "not true Germans" or "not true ___". Leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth, especially since there really is no concrete division of any type in this area-- it's all rather arbitrary.

 

[Deeje]

Judaism is a religion but because it is passed genetically (in most cases) and its members share a history which is not limited by its theology, there are elements of nationhood as well. So someone who is an atheist but is genetically Jewish is part of that Jewish nation construct while not being "Jewish" in practice of religion.


Jews have developed a variety of reputations. Maybe because Judaism is a religion built on argument, refutation and proof (through the explication of the oral law and the constant development of practical understanding of the various texts), there is a sense that multiple layers of meaning and (even occasionally contradictory) "truths" are acceptable.

[USER=55734]
The vast majority of Jews today are not orthodox - their understanding of Jewish law is different from mine, both in its particular form and in its authority to govern day to day decisions. They would say, though, not that they aren't "keeping the law" but that the law and the acceptable way of being a Jew is more expansive than the Orthodox would dictate.[/user]

LOL sorry, that was more than one question wasn't it?

Thank you for your answers.

 

[Akivah]

Peace be upon you,

I have a question I wish to be answered. So I know there are branches of Judaism & that they don't accept each other as legit.
Basically Orthodox is accepted by everyone, but they don't accept everyone else, is this true? And is it really like that in practice or just in theory? I mean like Orthodoxs walking around telling Reforms they are not real Jews, etc.

Thanks in advance.

I'm not Orthodox. I have never encountered a Jew that told me that I wasn't a real Jew.

In practice, the biggest difference is that we go to different synagogues. When we all get together and socialize for some event, no one ever asks which denomination each person is.

 

[RabbiO]

1) I'm not Orthodox. I have never encountered a Jew that told me that I wasn't a real Jew.

2) In practice, the biggest difference is that we go to different synagogues.....

1) For many of us the accusation is not that we are not real Jews. The accusation is that we are not practicing real Judaism. However for many others, there is the attitude that they are not real Jews. Putting aside the issue of patrilineal descent, the issue remains that conversions under non-Orthodox auspices are not accepted by Orthodoxy as valid conversions, at least far as I know. If I am wrong someone will correct me.

2) I wish it were so simple.

 

[metis]

1) For many of us the accusation is not that we are not real Jews. The accusation is that we are not practicing real Judaism.

But it also relates to whether one is a "Jew" when it comes to conversions that are not accepted by a branch(es).

 

[RabbiO]

But it also relates to whether one is a "Jew" when it comes to conversions that are not accepted by a branch(es).

Yeah, that's why there was a sentence after the first one.

This what happens when you head up north without your reading glasses....or you forget that they're on your forehead. I guess that happens when you are very ol....mature.

 

[metis]

Yeah, that's why there was a sentence after the first one.

This what happens when you head up north without your reading glasses....or you forget that they're on your forehead. I guess that happens when you are very ol....mature.

I can't help it-- my head is frozen.

 

[Akivah]

1) For many of us the accusation is not that we are not real Jews. The accusation is that we are not practicing real Judaism. However for many others, there is the attitude that they are not real Jews. Putting aside the issue of patrilineal descent, the issue remains that conversions under non-Orthodox auspices are not accepted by Orthodoxy as valid conversions, at least far as I know. If I am wrong someone will correct me.

2) I wish it were so simple.

Well ok, so I papered over some internal issues. In the US, the denomination differences matter far less than in Israel.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Well ok, so I papered over some internal issues. In the US, the denomination differences matter far less than in Israel.

I'm surprised to hear that you think that you have the right (or moral authority) to determine what matters. For many of us the demonization of the Progressive, Conservative, and Reform movements by influential elements of the Israeli Rabbinate matters a great deal.

 

[jaybird]

i read that Solomon could talk to animals. also plants / trees. how did that work? or what are your thoughts on it?

 

[rosends]

i read that Solomon could talk to animals. also plants / trees. how did that work? or what are your thoughts on it?

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13842-solomon
scroll down to the section entitled "Miraculous Power"

 

[dantech]

i read that Solomon could talk to animals. also plants / trees. how did that work? or what are your thoughts on it?

I can also talk to animals and trees. It's the animals and trees who don't know how to talk back.

 

[RabbiO]

I can also talk to animals and trees. It's the animals and trees who don't know how to talk back.

On the other hand, perhaps you just haven't said anything that the trees and animals think is worth responding to.

 

[metis]

With trees, their bark is bigger than their bite.

 

[RabbiO]

With trees, their bark is bigger than their bite.

This what you get when you plant the seed of an idea in a retired anthropologist and it takes root. He decides to turn over a new leaf and branch out!

Your move.

 

[metis]

This what you get when you plant the seed of an idea in a retired anthropologist and it takes root. He decides to turn over a new leaf and branch out!

Your move.

But at least I'm not the root of all evil!