Skwim
Veteran Member
Gargantuan sand worms are no LOL matter. And what I'm doing is classified for top echelon personnel only. However, what I can show you is this.
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Do you hope the beliefs "hell exist, where non-believer will be punish for eternity" to come true?
- Thread starter Pudding
- Start date
The Spice has got to flow.Gargantuan sand worms are no LOL matter. And what I'm doing is classified for top echelon personnel only. However, what I can show you is this.
Hope this helps.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
What possible reason is there that someone would actually hope for such a thing?
Thana
Lady
No... Not as I am now.
But I'm not so arrogant as to think I can know or judge the soul better than God.
My own sense of morality is laughable when it comes to Him, So I don't sweat the hell stuff. I trust Him. But no, I don't hope for it. I don't think many do.
'Revelations' is not canon for me, but even if such a mechanism of judgement were to exist, it would not exist eternally.
That would be our She'ol, which is more comparable to the RC concept of Purgatory, rather than the Xian concept of 'hell'.
I think that a person needs to know how to get to heaven and the dead cannot learn. The resurrection of the dead is for learning how.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
There are three situations associated with the modern word "hell" in the bible.
One is basically the grave or sleep of death (Hades/Sheol). The body returns to dust, and the spirit to God who gave it -and one does not experience the passage of time until resurrected later.
Another is the state of restraint of the sinning angels after their rebellion (Tartaros) -who are allowed to do only as allowed by God as they await their judgment later.
The third is the lake of fire (Gehenna) in which one potentially can be completely destroyed -and which refers to a state of unpleasantness -but which is more a deterrent and ultimatum.
It is written that those whose evil works are burned up will be saved -even though as by fire.
Will edit this later
One is basically the grave or sleep of death (Hades/Sheol). The body returns to dust, and the spirit to God who gave it -and one does not experience the passage of time until resurrected later.
Another is the state of restraint of the sinning angels after their rebellion (Tartaros) -who are allowed to do only as allowed by God as they await their judgment later.
The third is the lake of fire (Gehenna) in which one potentially can be completely destroyed -and which refers to a state of unpleasantness -but which is more a deterrent and ultimatum.
It is written that those whose evil works are burned up will be saved -even though as by fire.
Will edit this later
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe nothing happens which is a difficult situation for most people.
I believe you are right and I certainly would not wish to diminish a person's punishment by telling them how to alleviate it.
I don't believe other people will be available to alleviate the boredom.
I believe that is a good thing so I suggest you pray for him to repent and receive Jesus as Lord and Savior.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I am more God than you think but at the moment that power is not available nor do I believe it is time for that kind of judgement.
No it isn't. When I was first called to familiarize myself with the whole word of God, I totally believed that hell was where I would go when I died if I were not saved. Here is one scripture I do not have to look up to quote. "Ps.146.4 "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish". I can give more, but I have to go to each scripture, as I do not like to misquote. It is a"no brainer" that without thought there is no suffering.
I will also apologize for not knowing my way around this discussion board, I am sure I will do better in time. I did re read the thread title, and I had to click "Other", as I have the same love for humanity that Jesus does, and he is "willing for none to perish".
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
The Spice has got to flow.
Some techno music vids for ya
EON -THE SPICE MUST FLOW -REDUX
EON -SPICE (THE BARON'S DUB)
EON - FEAR: THE MINDKILLER
EON - FEAR: THE MINDKILLER (ORIGINAL MIX WITH BATS)
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Technically, the lake of fire is related to/is an aspect of the day of the Lord -the renewal of the earth/elements melting with fervent heat/works being burned up -but is not exactly the same thing.
The day of the Lord includes many things which will happen before the works of the Earth are burned up and the Earth is renewed.
Notice here that the focus is on things and works....
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
It will include removing sinners from the earth by destruction -but is not itself the lake of fire. Those sinners who die in the day of the Lord will be raised to the judgment after the thousand years -and only then have their part in the lake of fire.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
Joe 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
Joe 2:2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
Joe 2:3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
Joe 2:4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
Joe 2:5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
Joe 2:6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
Joe 2:7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
Joe 2:8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded
Joe 2:11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
Joe 2:12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
Joe 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
The lake of fire is after all of these things.
The first to be cast into the lake of fire are the beast and false prophet -at the return of Christ.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
That is a thousand years before even Satan is cast into the lake of fire (He will have been bound before that for a thousand years in the 'bottomless pit').
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
(forever and ever possibly meaning indefinitely -perhaps dependent on some factor -not necessarily absolutely eternally without end)
ONLY THEN -AFTER THE THOUSAND YEARS will any humans be cast into the lake of fire. The chapter continues.....
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Notice this, however...
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire........
The following also relates to these things -please notice what it says......
t
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Also..........
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Isa 25:8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
Oh great! Just what the world needs: Another god with another hell that he wants to send people to!
This is not directed at Muffled, but what is it about making people suffer that so delights some people? Is it some kind of compensation for living a petty, meaningless life? Does it make them feel big and important?
This is what I believe:
A. Mark of the Beast enforced
B. Plagues poured out.
C. Jesus Appears in the clouds,, living wicked are killed by the His Appearance and they will not live again until after the 1000 years is finished. The Righteous dead are raised and given immortal bodies, Living Righteous given immortal bodies,, and then these 2 companies shall meet Jesus in the air. and go to Heaven with Jesus and spend 1000 years there.
D. after the 1000 years is finished,,, The saints will return to the earth with the Holy City.
E. Jesus will raise the wicked back to life.
F. Satan shall once again influence them to circle the Holy City and to take it from the Saints.
G. God shall call fire down from heaven upon them devouring them.
H. God shall make a new heaven and a new earth.
I. The saints will live on the New Earth forever with God.
That pretty much sums up my belief. Questions?
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
A. Don't know what you believe the mark to be -but those who keep the commandments of God (as a sign upon their hand and as frontlets between their eyes -see OT) -including the Sabbath and holy days of the bible -are even now having difficulty buying and selling, are being persecuted, etc.
(those who refuse the mark by keeping the commandments of God in the tribulation will likely have some difficulty with the keeping of the holy days as a group, etc., due to disorganization and other situations. Those who have done the daily -preached the gospel of the kingdom -before the tribulation, and have remained faithful, will be led to a place of safety just before great tribulation begins [essentially WWIII ]). From the time their work -which is the daily now -ceases, until the time that the abomination of desolation is set up will be 1,290 days (see Daniel). The abomination is a destruction at Jerusalem -and has nothing to do with literal sacrifices at a temple there.
(Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee.....
Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee.....)
The mark of the beast is not a visible mark -but is also in the hand and forehead -in what is done and in what is believed/that which one submits their mind and deeds to.
Chips or visible identification might be implemented in the future, but such can be forced -not able to be refused.
B. Seven seals, seven trumpets at last seal, seven plagues at last trumpet... though there are some insets, so not everything written in the chapters with the descriptions of those is in exact chronological order.
C. The dead in Christ are raised first -meet the living in Christ in the air -but the kingdoms of the world have become the kingdoms of the Lord.
Those made immortal at the return of Christ do not go to heaven -they are made immortal and reign under Christ on Earth for the thousand years -over a repopulating remnant of humans.
Those humans repopulating during the thousand years will all go up to Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacles -or they will receive no rain.
They will no longer learn war, until the attempt made at the end of the thousand years when Satan is loosed -and it is the humans who have repopulated Earth who attempt an attack.
The "rest of the dead" are raised to the judgment after the thousand years -not for that battle.
The nature of animals will also be changed.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Zec 14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
Zec 14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ***, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Mic 4:1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Mic 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Mic 4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Mic 4:4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.
Mic 4:5 For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Eze 34:25 And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.
Will consider D through I later
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If you would like to pick a subject and discuss,, that would be fine with me. I can tell you this:
Satan has taught for a long time that the 1000 year reign will be on the earth. Satan will appear on the earth and claim to be Christ cometh. This is his master delusion, to counterfeit the Appearance of Jesus. The Lord has warned us not to believe this lie, nor even to go out and see if it is true.
Not only that,, but this earth is not going to be habitable during the thousand years. Jeremiah uses the same language that Moses used in describing the earth at creation.
The word for "bottomless pit" in the original Greek is "abussos", or abyss. That same word is used in the Greek Old Testament in Genesis 1:2 in connection with the creation of the earth, but here it is translated "deep", "The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." How interesting!. The words, "deep", "bottomless pit", and "abyss" here refer to the same thing------the earth in it's totally dark, disoriented form before God made order of it.
Jeremiah uses these terms to describe the earth during the thousand years: "without form and void",,,, "no light",,,,"no man",,,"black" See Jeremiah 4:23,25, 28.
When the Lord appears,, the Bible says, "The slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end: They shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be as dung upon the ground." Jeremiah 25:33.
"I beheld, and, lo, there was no man." Jeremiah 4:25
Isaiah 24:22 also speaks of Satan and his angels during the 1,000 years as, "gathered in the pit" and "shut up in prison".
This earth will not be a place that we can live,,, dead bodies everywhere,,,all the cities in ruin,,,plagues,,,,100 pound hailstones, and the biggest earthquake ever to hit the earth? No,,, nobody living here except Satan and his angels,, with nobody to influence,, because they all are dead. So,, until the wicked are raised back to life, Satan has nothing to do, but ponder his rebellion, for a thousand years.
The Mark of the Beast is the changing of God's law and enforcing that change. Without beating around the bush,, I will tell you that the Beast or Antichrist is the Papacy and it's Mark is the change made to God's law. That change will one day be enforced. Sunday Observance will one day be the law of the land. That is the Mark of the Beast. If you want more or have any questions,,, I will address them.
So,, we surely differ in what we believe is the Truth.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
No.
mojtaba
Active Member
Hell is not exactly burning with fire. Yes, there is fire there, but fire is indeed rising of 1.wrong believes(e.g., Polytheism, Atheism, etc. ) and 2.bad doings(e.g., Oppression, Lie, etc.) from the heart(i.e., soul or sprite) of the bad man in which those wrong believes and doings have established during living in this world.
Holy Quran, [72:15],
But as for the unjust(bad doing), they will be, for Hell, firewood.
[3:10]
Indeed, those who disbelieve(wrong belief) - never will their wealth or their children avail them against Allah at all. And it is they who are fuel for the Fire.
[21:98]
Indeed, you [disbelievers] and what you worship other than Allah are the firewood of Hell. You will be coming to [enter] it.
Also, all disbelievers will not go to Hell. Who cannot bring forth any strength and have not been shown the right way will not go to Hell.
[4:97-99]
97.Behold, those whom the angels gather in death while they are still sinning against themselves, [the angels] will ask, "What was wrong with you?'' They will answer: "We were too weak on earth." [The angels] will say: "Was, then, God's earth not wide enough for you to forsake the domain of evil?" For such, then, the goal is hell - and how evil a journey's end!
98.But excepted shall be the truly helpless - be they men or women or children - who cannot bring forth any strength and have not been shown the right way:
99.as for them, God may well efface their sin - for God is indeed an absolver of sins, much-forgiving.
Pudding
Well-Known Member
Do you mean it is only fair for people to go to hell if only they have causing many suffering?
What and how many suffering do you think, is the requirement for people to go the hell to be punish/burning for eternity?
Regardless of whether you have the belief or not, do you hope the belief of hell describe in the op, to come true?
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