Do you hope the beliefs "hell exist, where non-believer will be punish for eternity" to come true?

[Erebus]

It's alright for parents to warn their childeren that something bad might happen to them if they don't listen, but not for God?

Most parents don't set their children on fire for not listening.

Perhaps you're arguing that Hell is a natural consequence of our actions though? If so, then that leads to one of two possibilities. The first is that God is unable to get rid of Hell. This is probably the nicer of the two possibilities, though it does go against the idea of an all powerful deity. The other possibility is that God doesn't want to get rid of Hell. If that's the case, then I've already made my opinions on such a deity quite clear.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Most parents don't set their children on fire for not listening.

Well .. this is perhaps the impression that you have.
How's about imagining that Almighty God is not a person .. that hell is of our own making .. much like a criminal ending up in jail for not obeying 'the law' .

You can of course take whatever verses of the Bible and Qur'an you wish literally .. whatever suits you .. some people like to say that 'God is to blame' because He gave us the power to do evil, and should have made us angels etc.
Sorry .. that's not reality. Reality is that we have to take responsibility for our actions. Nobody likes being warned. If God said that 'He would smack our hand' if we were naughty, would you listen then?

The first is that God is unable to get rid of Hell. This is probably the nicer of the two possibilities..

That's obvious nonsense .. Almighty God does whatever He wills .. He has created us in pairs, male and female .. He has enabled us to enjoy, and also to suffer..

The other possibility is that God doesn't want to get rid of Hell. If that's the case, then I've already made my opinions on such a deity quite clear.

..closer.. He wishes us to learn from our mistakes, yes .. Some people just don't seem to learn, unfortunately. We sometimes 'cut off our nose to spite our face'. Those people that become 'devils' , constantly swearing with their peers and thinking their smart ( other than the immature teenager ) is heading for trouble!

 

[Erebus]

Well .. this is perhaps the impression that you have.
How's about imagining that Almighty God is not a person .. that hell is of our own making .. much like a criminal ending up in jail for not obeying 'the law' .

You can of course take whatever verses of the Bible and Qur'an you wish literally .. whatever suits you .. some people like to say that 'God is to blame' because He gave us the power to do evil, and should have made us angels etc.
Sorry .. that's not reality. Reality is that we have to take responsibility for our actions. Nobody likes being warned. If God said that 'He would smack our hand' if we were naughty, would you listen then?

..closer.. He wishes us to learn from our mistakes, yes .. Some people just don't seem to learn, unfortunately. We sometimes 'cut off our nose to spite our face'. Those people that become 'devils' , constantly swearing with their peers and thinking their smart ( other than the immature teenager ) is heading for trouble!

OK there are a few points to consider here. I should probably preface this by saying that I don't believe in your God or in Hell. As such, it's probably best to steer clear of arguments over whether or not God and Hell are real. Those arguments tend to go round in circles and get us nowhere

You've said that God can do what he wishes, that he's almighty. Fair enough, that rules out Hell being something beyond his control. From what you've said here, it looks like you believe Hell isn't something God sends people to, rather it's a natural consequence of our actions. Am I thinking along the right lines here? Also, from what I understand, the Islamic idea of Hell is that it's a place of fire and torture where sinners reside eternally. Is that how you see Hell, or do you view it differently?

My primary issues with Hell as a punishment are severity and duration. Burning and torture are incredibly severe punishments in the first place. To administer those punishments for eternity is, in my eyes, monstrous beyond imagining. I don't see much difference between a God that actively sends people to such a place and a God that simply allows such a place to exist. Both would be evil to my mind. Furthermore, a hell like that wouldn't actually allow anybody to learn from their mistakes and make amends. It's punishment without rehabilitation, which I have always viewed as sadistic.

Perhaps the thing that worries me most about Hell doctrines is their impact on this world. That an entity capable of inflicting infinite suffering (or otherwise, allows beings to experience infinite suffering) could be considered good, wise or just has some very frightening implications. If the supreme being is justified in committing acts of torture, what might humans consider reasonable punishment?

 

[cambridge79]

There's only one reality .. forget about 'deities' .. some people just don't like authority, it seems to me..

It's alright for parents to warn their childeren that something bad might happen to them if they don't listen, but not for God?

Squabbling about the details of who is "in charge of hell" does not teach us anything. Furthermore, arguing for things that we like doing, (that God doesn't like us doing) is our perrogative .. we are free to choose our path .. some will be respectful to authority, and some will not. Some will be believers and some will not.

Hell exists in this life ie. suffering, anguish and so on , so why shouldn't it exist in the next life, if there is indeed a next life?

so will drinking alchool send you to hell? muslims think yes, christians think no, only one is the right answer because as you said there's only one reality.

 

[Pudding]

I hope that you find the true answer.

Thank you.
It'll be great for me to be able to find the true answer, but it's only if what i find out is reasonable to me.
It'll not be great if the true answer i find out is something that unreasonable to me. For example: a malevolent god with/or an ill intent hell/afterlife.

Do you believe

Do i believe what?

 

[Pudding]

100% certain.

Why do you 100% certain?

 

[Pudding]

i would wellcome some sort of ultimate justice but the idea of hell as proposed by religions is not ultimate justice is pure wicked nonsense.
the idea that Ghandi could be in hell cause he didn't accept jesus as his savior or that a gay man can end up in hell simply for being gay even if he spent is whole life caring for others, while at the same time Saddam Hussein can be in heaven if he sincerely repented and accepted christ in his very last day on earth it's pure wicked immoral nonsense and i reject it as a whole

I agree with you that it's illogical.

 

[Altfish]

Why do you 100% certain?

A total lack of evidence. Hell is a place invented by religious leaders to threaten those who fail to adhere to their restrictive instructions/rules.

 

[Pudding]

A total lack of evidence. Hell is a place invented by religious leaders to threaten those who fail to adhere to their restrictive instructions/rules.

The absense of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
To claim certainty about the non-existence of something, you'll need to have evidence which prove or point to the possibilities that that something doesn't exists.

In other situation, you can't have the evidence which prove a non-existence-thing doesn't exists, therefor it's probably impractical or have no meaning to claim certainty about the non-existent of non-existence-thing.

 

[Altfish]

The absense of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
To claim certainty about the non-existence of something, you'll need to have evidence which prove or point to the possibilities that that something doesn't exists.

In other situation, you can't have the evidence which prove a non-existence-thing doesn't exists, therefor it's probably impractical or have no meaning to claim certainty about the non-existent of non-existence-thing.

So, I should allow for a possibility that the Easter Bunny exists? What about Russell's Celestial Teapot? Do you think The Flying Spaghetti Monster exists?
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" was the phrase made popular by Carl Sagan, it applies in relation to Hell. I will need extraordinary evidence of its existence to even consider any truth behind the story.

 

[Pudding]

So, I should allow for a possibility that the Easter Bunny exists? What about Russell's Celestial Teapot? Do you think The Flying Spaghetti Monster exists?
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" was the phrase made popular by Carl Sagan, it applies in relation to Hell. I will need extraordinary evidence of its existence to even consider any truth behind the story.

I don't claim Easter Bunny or Russell's Celestial Teapot or Flying Spaghetti Monster exists, because i've seen no evidence which proves they exists.
I also don't claim they don't exist, because to claim so, i need to have evidence which support my claim that they don't exist, but i don't have such evidence.
I don't believe they exists.

 

[JoStories]

I believe eternal in this case means timeless. It isn't punishment. It is the natural result of bad choices.

Then I assume you have never made a bad choice in your entire life. Not one, eh? If you have, you are standing on a house of sand. Its impossible that a person has not made at least one bad choice. If you are willing to believe that God would consign a person to this hell of yours for making a bad choice, that god (not capitalized on purpose) is heinous in the extreme and not worthy of any degree of worship. That god would be as evil as the hell you would send people to.

 

[Altfish]

I don't claim Easter Bunny or Russell's Celestial Teapot or Flying Spaghetti Monster exists, because i've seen no evidence which proves they exists.
I also don't claim they don't exist, because to claim so, i need to have evidence which support my claim that they don't exist, but i don't have such evidence.
I don't believe they exists.

You are going down a slippery slope here. You really think that the Easter Bunny may exist?
I notice that you totally ignored my "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" quote. Stuff like that is impossible to disprove. Does Harry Potter exist? There is more evidence for him than Jesus - but I am certain HP doesn't exist.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Does Harry Potter exist? There is more evidence for him than Jesus - but I am certain HP doesn't exist.

Yes, and there is more evidence for Santa than God. Lots of children believe in Santa, so he must be real.

 

[Pudding]

You are going down a slippery slope here. You really think that the Easter Bunny may exist?
I notice that you totally ignored my "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" quote. Stuff like that is impossible to disprove. Does Harry Potter exist? There is more evidence for him than Jesus - but I am certain HP doesn't exist.

Where have i say "i think the Easter Bunny may exist" ?
For me to not claim certainty about the non-existent of Easter Bunny, doesn't mean i think it may exist.
I've already say i don't believe it exists.
To claim i know it doesn't exists, is not the requirement for me to don't believe it exists.

You say extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
But you claims you're 100% certain that hell doesn't exists, because of lack of evidence for its existence.
It sounds like you have made an extraordinary claims but without any extraordinary evidence but only lack of evidence.
Where is your extraordinary evidence for your extraordinary claims?

 

[JoStories]

In other words, you don't hope the hell which have describe in the op, to exists, right?
Therefor, your choices to the poll is "I don't have this beliefs and i hope it not to come true." ?

Pudding, if you are asking for an answer to your poll, I would be forced to choice other, although I would prefer no answer really. The reason is that I think hell is a manmade concept and has no bearing on anything other than to coerce people into believing in something which I consider tantamount to magical thinking and worse, some of the most heinous of magical thinking. Hell does not exist. It serves no other purpose than to coerce people and try to shame them into believing in that version of God, which then makes God seem a hideous monster.

 

[Pudding]

Pudding, if you are asking for an answer to your poll, I would be forced to choice other, although I would prefer no answer really. The reason is that I think hell is a manmade concept and has no bearing on anything other than to coerce people into believing in something which I consider tantamount to magical thinking and worse, some of the most heinous of magical thinking. Hell does not exist. It serves no other purpose than to coerce people and try to shame them into believing in that version of God, which then makes God seem a hideous monster.

Thanks for your reply.

Does hell exist?
I don't know.
Do i believe hell exist?
No, i don't believe hell exist.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Does hell exist?

According to one of Sartre's plays, "Hell is other people."

 

[Pudding]

According to one of Sartre's plays, "Hell is other people."

It does can be interpret like that.

 

[mojtaba]

Do i believe what?

Do you believe in God( Creator )?