Do You Know Why You Don't Believe?

[Super Universe]

If you can tell me how you know something that is unknown, then I'll believe you.

It's not unknown.

Everything visible is within the universe. Things visible are up to 13.7 billion light years away. Thus we have a universe with at least 13.7 billion light years of width, length, and height.

 

[Panda]

If you can tell me how you know something that is unknown, then I'll believe you.

The Universe has limits, we do not need to know the limits to know they exist. The Universe has to have limits as it is expanding from one single point in the universe, like a bubble getting bigger and bigger.

 

[Super Universe]

Fakery is done by people with their own agendas... with their own reasons for convincing people that something is true. What possible agenda can you think of for someone wanting to convince the world that a non-existent tall iron structure is actually standing in Paris?


Umm... try again. Or explain your response.

What agenda did the man who put on a Big Foot suit have? Maybe to fool people?

The atom is not enough proof of intelligence to you? Okay, try this, design something that an entire universe will be based on? Something better than the atom.

 

[Panda]

What agenda did the man who put on a Big Foot suit have? Maybe to fool people?

The atom is not enough proof of intelligence to you? Okay, try this, design something that an entire universe will be based on? Something better than the atom.

This is a nonsensical question. What are you asking? To design a better thing than an atom? Define better?

 

[Willamena]

It's not unknown.

Everything visible is within the universe. Things visible are up to 13.7 billion light years away. Thus we have a universe with at least 13.7 billion light years of width, length, and height.

Alright; but you said, "it's width, length, and height are not known." If it's not unknown, then to whom is it known? (regardless of the numbers)

 

[Super Universe]

This is a nonsensical question. What are you asking? To design a better thing than an atom? Define better?

It is does make sense, it's just tough, actually impossible.

Define better? Try Dictionary.com.

 

[Super Universe]

Alright; but you said, "it's width, length, and height are not known." If it's not unknown, then to whom is it known? (regardless of the numbers)

To whom is the size of the universe known?

To whoever cares to look it up. It's quite readily available on the internet and at your local library.

And, to be more correct, what I said was:

The LIMIT of the universe is not known, that does not negate the fact that it still has some width, length, and height that we can see and even measure.

 

[Panda]

It is does make sense, it's just tough, actually impossible.

Define better? Try Dictionary.com.

Don't be stupid. How could the atom be better? Should it be smaller? Should it be bright pink? No you are asking a nonsensical and stupid question that has no relevance at all.

 

[YmirGF]

The Universe has limits, we do not need to know the limits to know they exist. The Universe has to have limits as it is expanding from one single point in the universe, like a bubble getting bigger and bigger.

Although I am no astrophysicist, even I can understand that there does not have to be boundaries. What you are stating is the view of some scientists who think we are within a "closed" system. It is entirely possible that if one follows a given point infinitely in any direction they will never reach the "edge" of the physical universe. My own theory is that the physical universe is growing faster than the speed of light (at the supposed "boundary areas", that is) and so our measurements will never be able to keep up with the expansion as our perception and instruments are bound by the current laws of physics. Oh well, I never assume I am right, so there is always room for corrections unlike those who have things all figured out. If I wanted to be a total snot, I could get indignant and demand folks prove me wrong, lol. Good luck.

 

[Panda]

To whom is the size of the universe known?

To whoever cares to look it up. It's quite readily available on the internet and at your local library.

Not entirely true, the size of the visible universe is available however I don't think the size of the universe past the visible universe are known because well the light hasn't reached us yet and we don't have anything powerful enough to see that far to check where the edge actually is.

 

[Super Universe]

Don't be stupid. How could the atom be better? Should it be smaller? Should it be bright pink? No you are asking a nonsensical and stupid question that has no relevance at all.

I'm not being stupid. It's a perfect question.

Now, how did the atom create itself so perfect? Must have been a series of highly fortunate accidents and all in a perfect order.

 

[Willamena]

And, to be more correct, what I said was:
The LIMIT of the universe is not known, that does not negate the fact that it still has some width, length, and height that we can see and even measure.

Size, width and length are not limits?

 

[Panda]

Although I am no astrophysicist, even I can understand that there does not have to be boundaries. What you are stating is the view of some scientists who think we are within a "closed" system. It is entirely possible that if one follows a given point infinitely in any direction they will never reach the "edge" of the physical universe. My own theory is that the physical universe is growing faster than the speed of light (at the supposed "boundary areas", that is) and so our measurements will never be able to keep up with the expansion as our perception and instruments are bound by the current laws of physics. Oh well, I never assume I am right, so there is always room for corrections unlike those who have things all figured out. If I wanted to be a total snot, I could get indignant and demand folks prove me wrong, lol. Good luck.

Ahh I see. I was under the impression that scientists thought the universe wasn't expanding at that speed yet. But even if it expanding faster than the universal speed limit I would have thought it would still have a width, height and length? I personally think if one can travel infinitely fast without any of these horrible side effects caused by speeds close to that of the speed of light we could reach the edge of the universe. Even with your train of thought I don't see how that would make the universe infinitely large and without boundaries.

 

[Panda]

I'm not being stupid. It's a perfect question.

Now, how did the atom create itself so perfect? Must have been a series of highly fortunate accidents and all in a perfect order.

No your question is not perfect and it is in fact stupid. How is the atom perfect? What makes it perfect?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What agenda did the man who put on a Big Foot suit have? Maybe to fool people?

I don't know. To sell a story, maybe? To feel important?

The atom is not enough proof of intelligence to you? Okay, try this, design something that an entire universe will be based on? Something better than the atom.

What on Earth are you on about? And what meaning does "better" have in this context?

Just because past events have led to this point, where we have life, humanity, society, religion and all that does not automatically imply that we were the reason for everything that came before us. To suggest otherwise (without foundation, at least) is the height of hubris.

As an analogy, consider wind. Could I come up with something that's more suited for driving sailboats and windmills than wind? Probably not. Does this mean that wind must be caused by the Breath of God, and not by natural convection and pressure differentials? Definitely not.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm not being stupid. It's a perfect question.

Now, how did the atom create itself so perfect? Must have been a series of highly fortunate accidents and all in a perfect order.

How do you know an atom is perfect? What characteristics do you think something must have for it to be perfect?

 

[Super Universe]

[/size]

I don't know. To sell a story, maybe? To feel important?


What on Earth are you on about? And what meaning does "better" have in this context?

Just because past events have led to this point, where we have life, humanity, society, religion and all that does not automatically imply that we were the reason for everything that came before us. To suggest otherwise (without foundation, at least) is the height of hubris.

As an analogy, consider wind. Could I come up with something that's more suited for driving sailboats and windmills than wind? Probably not. Does this mean that wind must be caused by the Breath of God, and not by natural convection and pressure differentials? Definitely not.

Wind might not be caused by the actual "Breath of God" but it does make for a poetic story. It's your fault if you took it literal.

 

[Fluffy]

What if you know the nature of bricks and you know they are incapable of forming themselves into the shape of the building without direction?

So your argument is based on the premise that you know the bricks are incapable of forming themselves into the shape of a building without direction. I'm sure you meant this but just to make it non-ambiguous, I would say that this "direction" needs to be qualified with the adjective "intelligent" leaving your premise as "the bricks are incapable of forming themselves into the shape of the building without intelligent direction".

I agree that if you could demonstrate a reason to believe this premise, I would be forced to accept some form of theism (probably deism).

You need the same standard of evidence for believing in God as believing in anything else? Do you believe the Eiffel Tower exists?

That is correct. I do believe that the Eiffel Tower exists.

How can you be so absolutely sure that the universe itself, the earth, and life, are not evidence of intelligent design? You don't see any intelligence whatsoever in it?

I am not "absolutely sure" about anything. I'm not "absolutely sure" that God does not exist. I am not "absolutely sure" that the Eiffel Tower does exist. I merely believe that his existence is less likely than his non-existence and therefore it is justifiable to conclude that he does not exist.

However, if I was absolutely sure God did not exist then I would need a pretty convincing argument in order to be justified in holding that belief. The same is true for the person who is absolutely sure that God does exist.

 

[Papersock]

God does not live in another dimension. God exists in heaven which is non-space/time. The central hub of the multi-verse. The dimensions are created by God energy. Heaven is not.

We cannot sense God? Well, some people are born with certain genetics that allow them to channel ascended beings. Not all ascended beings are good. These people almost always believe that the being that is talking to them is "God". There is much you do not understand about other types of energy. You give away your energy to these beings when you worship them. Other ascended beings target people to cause fear, another way for them to get your energy.

The soul transmits information from our five senses to God. In this way, God experiences everything that you experience. The communication is actually both ways as God sends information to the soul as well but your human form is kept out of the loop so you maintain your individuality and free will. Also, you would go quite mad if any of the information somehow came into your brain, the frequency and amount of information is much to high for us to handle.

So since God creates the universe and everything in it we can begin to develop an understanding of what God is just by studying - everything.

Ok. But, as I've said, that is all subjective. How did you reach the conclusion that what you just said is true? Is it based on actual, measurable, and verifiable evidence?

 

[rasor]

God can't evolve? Wrong.

If your god can evolve that means he/she/it wasn't perfect in the first place,which means he/she/it isn't a god.

The burden of proof does not lie on the believer. What a convenient view for you to take? The burden of proof lie's on anyone who makes a claim, believer or not.

Yes it does and you are making the claim so back it up with proof.(which of course you'll sidestep because you have no proof)

And you have avoided answering the OP as well. Maybe you don't have any evidence that God does not exist? Then why don't you believe? You don't even know, do you?

Yes I do know.Its because there's no proof of any sort what so ever.Again I don't have to prove yor god doesn't exist,you have to prove he does.

God is not omniscient? What does having infinite knowledge have to do with Him choosing to abide by the physical laws that He set in place?

If your god is not omniscient then he/she/it is not god.

I guess you meant to say "He is not omnipotent". You constantly spin things. As I said, God can violate the physical laws but He does not do so. Why would He create a law and then violate it? You are trying to put Him into a very small, human like, box.

What you actually said was

No supernatural thing exists. Everything abides by the physical laws. Even God will not/CAN NOT violate them. If He did, the universe would cease to exist.

Make your mind up SP first you say he can't then you say he can but doesn't want to :foot: