Do you really think you are helping anyone?

[waitasec]

Are you saying that Christians should not share their beliefs with others?

i'm saying they believe they have to...

i agreed with an earlier post of yours which seems to contradict what you are contending in this post...

in that the way people live their lives should be the way you show your truths...

 

[waitasec]

Angels first....then God.

oh that's right...you don't believe.

i don't follow YOUR truth...
i follow mine....sorry to disappoint...if i have done so

 

[Kathryn]

i'm saying they believe they have to...

i agreed with an earlier post of yours which seems to contradict what you are contending in this post...

in that the way people live their lives should be the way you show your truths...

I don't see the contradiction.

My personal belief is "Share the gospel always - when necessary, use words." Our life should be our strongest witness to our faith.

That being said, I also believe that we should be bold - that when our faith offers help, solutions, etc we should not hesitate to share that help and those solutions with others, not out of arrogance, but rather out of a sense of servitude and humility.

Personally, I am humbled whenever I am able to be a conduit of God's grace and mercy.

 

[Thief]

i don't follow YOUR truth...
i follow mine....sorry to disappoint...if i have done so

Disappointment?...only if you fail to cross over.

 

[waitasec]

I don't see the contradiction.

My personal belief is "Share the gospel always - when necessary, use words." Our life should be our strongest witness to our faith.

That being said, I also believe that we should be bold - that when our faith offers help, solutions, etc we should not hesitate to share that help and those solutions with others, not out of arrogance, but rather out of a sense of servitude and humility.

Personally, I am humbled whenever I am able to be a conduit of God's grace and mercy.

do you equate sharing and preaching as the same thing?
1st i want to get this straight before we go any longer.
i am assuming we are talking about proselytizing
meaning: to induce someone to convert to one's own religious faith
induce meaning: to stimulate...

are we one the same page?

 

[waitasec]

Disappointment?...only if you fail to cross over.

my question to you then is...how would you know?

 

[Vinayaka]

I think the latest incidents of May 21 are an extreme example of the harm proseltyzing can do. People sold their home, sold everything, quit jobs, lost marriages, and more to follow the 'truth'. And I'm sure many were as convinced as you and me about our faith. You don't go out and sell a house without conviction, whether it be reasonable or not.

If it weren't for Camping's tremendous amount of proseltyzing, and th edollars of donations given to him for it, many people wouldn't be suffering the consequences today.

In India, Africa, and elsewhere, where there is heavy proseltysing, it breaks up family units, pitting brothers against brothers, men against wives, and more. How truly sad.

 

[sky dancer]

From the Forum Rules:



Not once have I stated that my "faith is only one truth faith. That only (my) belief that Jesus is God in the flesh can be true. (sky dancer's) cannot be true, according to Kathryn. We must all believe what Kathryn believes, because according to her, there is only one truth. Kathryns way or the highway."

This poster has stated this repeatedly. I believe at this point, this is a blatant misrepresentation of my words and beliefs.

You have repeatedly tried to back me into a corner, trying to make ME say that Christianity is not true, because you feel that it's impossible for both Buddhism and Christianity to be true. I have repeatedly stated that Christianity is as valid for Christians as Buddhism is for Buddhists. You are not satisfied with my answer. You have called me dishonest, and now you are implying that I am a bully and a troll. The one who is name calling is you.

If you feel my posts violate the rules, report me.

 

[Thief]

my question to you then is...how would you know?

These discussions we participate in.
Your 'word'...your 'declaration' carries over.

 

[Kathryn]

You have repeatedly tried to back me into a corner, trying to make ME say that Christianity is not true, because you feel that it's impossible for both Buddhism and Christianity to be true. I have repeatedly stated that Christianity is as valid for Christians as Buddhism is for Buddhists. You are not satisfied with my answer.

If you feel my posts violate the rules, report me.

I have.

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. I haven't been "backing you into a corner" or trying to "make you say that Christianity is not true."

You have skirted around my questions regarding truth and when YOU felt "backed into a corner," you retaliated with personal attacks and untrue statements about my beliefs and what I've posted on this thread.

 

[sky dancer]

I have.

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. I haven't been "backing you into a corner" or trying to "make you say that Christianity is not true."

You have skirted around my questions regarding truth and when YOU felt "backed into a corner," you retaliated with personal attacks and untrue statements about my beliefs and what I've posted on this thread.

You believe that Jesus was God in the flesh. I don't. It's fine with me that you believe that.

I have not attacked you. It is you who have called me dishonest, a bully and a troll. You want to argue, to raise heat. I don't. You seem angry to me.

I have kindly answered your questions, you do not like my answers. My beliefs are as true for me as yours are for you. I'm sorry you can't seem to live with that and want me to change my deeply held core spiritual beliefs.

I never talk to Christians about Buddhism. We talk in neutral, universal language about our common interests.

The only way I know how to explain WHY I believe something is to talk about my life. For you, you'd probably consider that proselytizing. For me, it would merely explain why Buddhism is my path and not Christianity. I'm in no way interested in making you a Buddhist.

 

[Kathryn]

You believe that Jesus was God in the flesh. I don't. It's fine with me that you believe that.

I have not attacked you. It is you who have called me dishonest, a bully and a troll. You want to argue, to raise heat. I don't.

I have kindly answered your questions, you do not like my answers. My beliefs are as true for me as yours are for you. I'm sorry you can't seem to live with that and want me to change my deeply held core spiritual beliefs.

OMG, this is ridiculous.

I have not once called you a bully or a troll.

I do not want to argue or, as you put it, "raise heat." I do want to debate topics such as truth and proselytizing, which is why I am on this thread and doing just that.

I also don't want to you to change your deeply held core spiritual beliefs. For all I know, your beliefs may be THE ULTIMATE TRUTH.

But if they are - I would surely hope you could do a better job of defining truth than you've done so far.

You could start with truthful, rather than disengenuous, behavior regarding other forum members.

By the way, I have a question for you - you say that I believe that Jesus is God in the flesh. Now - that may be true, or it may be untrue, but how did you reach that conclusion? I certainly didn't claim any such thing on this thread. And many who claim to be Christians do not believe in the diety of Jesus.

Just sayin'.

 

[sky dancer]

Stop calling me names, like dishonest. You told me I can't take the heat. The only heat here is the one you're raising. You just posted the rules on forum bully and trolling directed to me. You implied that my suggestion that I tell my story as to why I became a Buddhist would be proselytizing.

I have repeatedly stated that Christianity is as valid to Christians as Buddhism is to Buddhists. You are not satisfied with my answer. You want me to state that only one path can be true. I won't do that.

Truth just is. Just a finger can point to the moon, truth can be pointed to, but the finger is not the moon. All religions point to the truth, but they are like fingers. They point in the direction but they are not ultimate truth.

 

[waitasec]

guys...
breathe....in breathe.... out.

take a moment.




actually i like it whenever i get into heated debates and someone reminds me to breathe

:flower2:

 

[Kathryn]

The only way I know how to explain WHY I believe something is to talk about my life. For you, you'd probably consider that proselytizing.

Why do you say that? I haven't implied that, other than my tongue in cheek response to your offer, after you made it very clear to me in an earlier post that you would never be interested in anything like that from me.

For me, it would merely explain why Buddhism is my path and not Christianity. I'm in no way interested in making you a Buddhist.

Are you assuming that when a Christian explains why Christianity is their path, they want you to become a Christian? Maybe some do, maybe others don't. Maybe others are ambivalent and would think it was cool if you don't and cool if you do.

If I listened to your personal story and asked why you left Catholicism, could you explain that without saying that you no longer believe that Catholicism is true to you? And how can it be untrue to you but true to others?

How can the Body of Christ be present in the Eucharist but not be present in the Eucharist? It either is or it's not. It's not "truly there" for those who believe and simply "not there" for those who don't. If a believing Catholic believes that the Host IS the literal Body of Christ - is it literally the Body of Christ in that persons's mouth? He believes that it is - does that make it so?

Or is it just the Body of Christ to that person? If that's the case, then it's not REALLY the Body of Christ - he just thinks it is. Heck, maybe Jesus didn't even die on the cross - or maybe He isn't the Son of God. In that case, that cracker CAN'T be the real Body of Christ no matter how much the person thinks it is.

It's either true or false.

By the way, I'm not Catholic. I'm just playing devil's advocate.

 

[waitasec]

i don't follow YOUR truth...
i follow mine....sorry to disappoint...if i have done so

Disappointment?...only if you fail to cross over.

my question to you then is...how would you know?

These discussions we participate in.
Your 'word'...your 'declaration' carries over.

are you saying you are disappointed if i don't cross over to your truth?

 

[Kathryn]

Stop calling me names, like dishonest. You told me I can't take the heat. The only heat here is the one you're raising. You just posted the rules on forum bully and trolling directed to me. You implied that my suggestion that I tell my story as to why I became a Buddhist would be proselytizing.

I have repeatedly stated that Christianity is as valid to Christians as Buddhism is to Buddhists. You are not satisfied with my answer. You want me to state that only one path can be true. I won't do that.

Truth just is. Just a finger can point to the moon, truth can be pointed to, but the finger is not the moon. All religions point to the truth, but they are like fingers. They point in the direction but they are not ultimate truth.

You ARE being dishonest, and have been repeatedly. I'm just calling you out on it. You have repeatedly made statements saying that I said them, when I didn't. I'll call you out every time for that sort of behavior, whether you like it or not.

My statement about you "telling your story" being proselytizing was obviously a joke. I even pointed it out as a tongue in cheek statement.

As for your finger analogy, I think it falls flat. It only works if all fingers are pointing to the moon. Some aren't. When fingers point in all different directions, every direction can't get you to the moon.

 

[Thief]

are you saying you are disappointed if i don't cross over to your truth?

No.
Simply disappointed that you might fail to stand from your dust.

Of course, if we don't 'fit in'...

The next life is not ours to give or take.
The angels say first....then God.

Walk in heaven?...without permission?
I think you've seen my postings about that.

 

[waitasec]

kathryn, for what it's worth, my discourse with theif pretty much says it all...

I believe that truth is truth. Period. I also believe that we try to burden Truth with a lot of additional baggage that's unnecessary and that dilutes core Truths.

would the bible be considered as baggage or a part of the core truth?

Into the next life....you carry what you hold within you.

Books, like crutches, will be left behind.

i agree it is what you carry with you...
in this life

And you still fall short of the next?...no 'carry over'?

that is your truth...
carry it over for yourself

Back to post #213.

that is your truth...
embrace it...

And you are different from me, in what way?

our "truth" is different...

is yours more truer than mine?

is mine more truer than yours?

who will say? you or me?

Angels first....then God.

oh that's right...you don't believe.

i don't follow YOUR truth...
i follow mine....sorry to disappoint...if i have done so

Disappointment?...only if you fail to cross over.

my question to you then is...how would you know?

These discussions we participate in.
Your 'word'...your 'declaration' carries over.

No.
Simply disappointed that you might fail to stand from your dust.

Of course, if we don't 'fit in'...

The next life is not ours to give or take.
The angels say first....then God.

Walk in heaven?...without permission?
I think you've seen my postings about that.

thief, that is your truth embrace it for yourself...

 

[Kathryn]

Why did we just have that recap of posts? I've read all those already.

Yawn.