Do you really think you are helping anyone?

[waitasec]

Truth is in the moment, it is non-conceptual. It can be pointed to, but the finger pointing is not the truth.

Same way with all paths of spiritual practice. They point to the truth, but they are not the truth.

Truth is.

yes indeed...
:cigar:

 

[Kathryn]

Your choice, Kathryn. I have friends that don't agree with me about certain topics. I can live with that. You can't, I guess.

You've spent all morning trying to back me into a corner to say that Buddhism is true and Christianity is not when I've repeatedly stated the opposite.

What's up with that?

You call me dishonest, because you don't like my answers. They don't fit your black and white thinking of what truth is.

Maybe your friends aren't as direct with you as I am.

As for living with your disagreement with me, I am living with it as we speak, and it's not bothering me one bit. Your dishonesty bothers me, however. And I call you dishonest, not because I don't like your answers. I call you dishonest, because you have constantly put words into my mouth and stated things about my personal beliefs which simply are not true. I dislike that sort of behavior. Don't worry, though - that doesn't mean I don't like YOU. :slap:

You have given the classic "non answer" - "Everything is true to whoever believes it."

I don't buy that. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Now - to clarify something. You may be right. I may be wrong.

But if a person claims that Jesus is God in the flesh, and someone else claims he's not - they can't both be right, because their beliefs contradict each other.

To say that "Well, that's true to one of them," doesn't in any way make the belief true or untrue.

It's either true, or it's false.

I know that doesn't sound pretty, and it's not the second verse to Kum Ba Ya, but it's reality.

 

[sky dancer]

I'm sorry Kathryn. I continually post about what truth means to me. You choose not to read it or believe me. You call me names, like dishonest. You're hostile. I'm not.

I'm sorry, you'd rather be an enemy than a friend. My offer of friendship still stands. We don't have to see eye to eye about every belief.

This is what is true to me. Life is suffering. We suffer in birth, in aging, in illness and in death. We suffer because we don't see that everything is impermanent. We cling to things we must ultimately let go of. We think our egos and personalities are permanent.

There is a state beyond suffering. There is a path that leads to a state beyond sorrow.

This is the teaching that lead me to take up Buddhism.

If you want to know the context of my personal life story as to why those truths made sense to me I can share that.

Truth is in the moment, it is non-conceptual. It can be pointed to, but the finger pointing is not the truth.

Same way with all paths of spiritual practice. They point to the truth, but they are not the truth. Religions are like fingers that point to truth. The fingers are not the truth.

No religion owns the truth. Truth just is.

It seems to me that you cannot conceive of Buddhism holding truth as much as Christianity.

 

[Thief]

would the bible be considered as baggage or a part of the core truth?

Into the next life....you carry what you hold within you.

Books, like crutches, will be left behind.

 

[waitasec]

But if a person claims that Jesus is God in the flesh, and someone else claims he's not - they can't both be right, because their beliefs contradict each other.

To say that "Well, that's true to one of them," doesn't in any way make the belief true or untrue.

i think this approach presents a dilemma to anyone making the assertion that they have the truth...

 

[waitasec]

Into the next life....you carry what you hold within you.

Books, like crutches, will be left behind.

i agree it is what you carry with you...
in this life

 

[Thief]

i agree it is what you carry with you...
in this life

And you still fall short of the next?...no 'carry over'?

 

[waitasec]

And you still fall short of the next?...no 'carry over'?

that is your truth...
carry it over for yourself

 

[Thief]

that is your truth...
carry it over for yourself

Back to post #213.

 

[Kathryn]

I'm sorry Kathryn. I continually post about what truth means to me. You choose not to read it or believe me. You call me names, like dishonest. You're hostile. I'm not.

LOL, you call me names, like "hostile." I'm not. I'm direct. Very different.

I read what you post. I read what you say you believe about truth. I believe you when you say what you believe (though apparently you don't extend the same courtesy to me).

I also believe that you are evading direct answers to direct questions. Not sure why you're doing this, but it doesn't shore up your position well.

I'm sorry, you'd rather be an enemy than a friend. My offer of friendship still stands.

I don't want to be your enemy, nor do I consider us to be enemies. This is your take, not mine. You seem to be confusing debating with personal dislike. I debate even with my immediate family, on a regular basis, and I love them dearly. Just because we're debating a topic doesn't mean we're enemies. Unless of course, you choose to be my enemy. Which I would think would be weird.

This is what is true to me. Life is suffering. We suffer in birth, in aging, in illness and in death. We suffer because we don't see that everything in impermanent. We cling to things we must ultimately let go of.

What is true to me is that life can and often does hold both suffering and joy. I also believe that suffering and joy can exist simultaneously. We suffer in birth, in aging, in illness, and in death, but we can also grow and find great joy, wisdom, knowledge, peace, and understanding through this process.

It's not all about suffering - not even in this life independent of any other form of existence.

There is a state beyond suffering. There is a path that leads to a state beyond sorrow.

I agree - and we can find it here and now, and we can find it outside of this earthly life.

If you want to know the context of my personal life story as to why those truths made sense to me I can share that.

Be careful - some might think you're proselytizing!

You told me earlier, as you vacilate between offers of friendship and insults, that you wouldn't ever ask me for advice and insight, though I made it clear that I would only do so in the context of my personal story. What makes you think anyone wants you to share your own story and why you think you've found truth? How does your approach differ at all from mine?

That being said, I'd probably be interested to hear your personal story of your search for truth -but this thread is in the debate section, which is why I've been debating with you. There's a time and a place for everything.

Same way with all paths of spiritual practice. They point to the truth, but they are not the truth. Religions are like fingers that point to truth. The fingers are not the truth.

OK, nice sentiment, and it could hold some truth. But let me ask you this. If two fingers are pointing in different directions, are they both pointing to the truth?

 

[waitasec]

I wanna play!

Picture the hour of your last breath.

You will stand up or not.
If not...eternal darkness waits for you.
It's not a philosophical idea.
No form of light follows anyone into the ground.

If you stand...anyone having spiritual life could be the one standing over you.
The advantage will be their's.
They will know the language, the territory, and the scheme of things.

You came into this life naked....you leave the same way.
Here in this life your thoughts and feelings are shielded.
In the next...they will see through you as if you are made of glass.
All that was done in secret will be made known.

Judgment follows....no exceptions.

that is your truth...
embrace it...

 

[Thief]

that is your truth...
embrace it...

And you are different from me, in what way?

 

[waitasec]

And you are different from me, in what way?

our "truth" is different...

is yours more truer than mine?

is mine more truer than yours?

who will say? you or me?

 

[Kathryn]

If a person makes a claim that Jesus is God in the flesh, he is to that person. That doesn't mean that every person finds that to be true.

So - no matter what a person believes, it's valid and true - is that what you're saying?

If a person believes that Odin told them to cut their baby's head off - is that true and valid? If they do it, are they right in doing so? If they don't do it, are they being untrue to themselves and their own beliefs?

 

[waitasec]

what does the bible say about preaching the good news to all nations...
was it not a command from jesus himself?

is this teaching something you consider to be baggage or a part of your core truth?

 

[waitasec]

So - no matter what a person believes, it's valid and true - is that what you're saying?

If a person believes that Odin told them to cut their baby's head off - is that true and valid? If they do it, are they right in doing so? If they don't do it, are they being untrue to themselves and their own beliefs?

it was true for abraham...

 

[Kathryn]

From the Forum Rules:

3. Trolling and Bullying
We recognize three areas of unacceptable trolling (Please note that these apply to PMs, signature lines, frubal comments, and visitor messages as well, if they are reported):

1)posts that are deliberately inflammatory in order to provoke a vehement response from other users.

2)posts that Target a person or group by following them around the forums to attack them. This is Bullying. Deliberately altering the words of another member by intentionally changing the meaning when you use the quote feature is considered a form of bullying. The ONLY acceptable alteration of a quotation from another member is to remove portions that are not relevant or to alter formatting for emphasis.

3)posts that are adjudged to fit the following profile: "While questioning and challenging other beliefs is appropriate in the debates forums, repeated blatant misrepresentation or continual harassment of other beliefs will not be tolerated."

Not once have I stated that my "faith is only one truth faith. That only (my) belief that Jesus is God in the flesh can be true. (sky dancer's) cannot be true, according to Kathryn. We must all believe what Kathryn believes, because according to her, there is only one truth. Kathryns way or the highway."

This poster has stated this repeatedly. I believe at this point, this is a blatant misrepresentation of my words and beliefs.

 

[Kathryn]

what does the bible say about preaching the good news to all nations...
was it not a command from jesus himself?

is this teaching something you consider to be baggage or a part of your core truth?

Are you saying that Christians should not share their beliefs with others?

 

[waitasec]

From the Forum Rules:



Not once have I stated that my "faith is only one truth faith. That only (my) belief that Jesus is God in the flesh can be true. (sky dancer's) cannot be true, according to Kathryn. We must all believe what Kathryn believes, because according to her, there is only one truth. Kathryns way or the highway."

This poster has stated this repeatedly. I believe at this point, this is a blatant misrepresentation of my words and beliefs.

i'm confused...
john 14:6 isn't a truth you adhere to as a christian?

 

[Thief]

our "truth" is different...

is yours more truer than mine?

is mine more truer than yours?

who will say? you or me?

Angels first....then God.

oh that's right...you don't believe.