Do You Think Muslims Are Violent?

[gnostic]

The Christian couple were natives of Pakistan and couldn't just leave the country, so that doesn't solve that particular issue. You didn't answer my questions, though. How could such a thing happen among Muslims in the first place? Why are we seeing the same behavior throughout the globe from Muslims? Even Muslims from the West, some of whom are born and raised in a Western nation, are beheading, attacking and otherwise mistreating others who they see as violating their religious beliefs.

They are all (I'm only referring to those involved in terrorism) sociopaths and psychopaths.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Thanks for your helpful reply.

I am still puzzled. I have often seen imams referred to as the chief authority at mosques, for example, and as leading muslim factions. Are there any qualifications required for such roles?

The only qualifications to be an Imam is the local community will accept them as being able to lead the prayers. There are female Imams however an adult male if forbidden to stand behind a woman during prayer.

It has only been in recent times there has been an incentive to have an Imam that has some level of training.

But overall most Mosques do not have a full time Imam the oldest person present takes on the role and leads the prayers. Very often Muslims do not say their obligatory prayers in a Mosque many probably most do so at home, work, school or out on the street. World wide I suspect most Muslims do not pray inside a Mosque.

How does one become an Imam? You make a room in your house a Mosque and begin leading prayers there. If you have Muslim neighbors you let them know you have made a room in your house a Mosque. They may come there to pray. We do not tithe, it can prove to be expensive to have a Mosque.

In the US there is now a trend for local Muslim communities to pool their resources and build a community Mosque. A few have gone so far as to actually hire a person to be the Imam. Currently there are about 2100 Mosques in the US but less than 700 full time Imams about half of them receive some type of Salary. . The highest paid Imam I am aware of makes less than $35,000 a year and no Imam receives anything like housing, cars or what ever. No extra frills. It is not a job one does to earn a living.

 

[Harikrish]

The only qualifications to be an Imam is the local community will accept them as being able to lead the prayers. There are female Imams however an adult male if forbidden to stand behind a woman during prayer.

It has only been in recent times there has been an incentive to have an Imam that has some level of training.

But overall most Mosques do not have a full time Imam the oldest person present takes on the role and leads the prayers. Very often Muslims do not say their obligatory prayers in a Mosque many probably most do so at home, work, school or out on the street. World wide I suspect most Muslims do not pray inside a Mosque.

How does one become an Imam? You make a room in your house a Mosque and begin leading prayers there. If you have Muslim neighbors you let them know you have made a room in your house a Mosque. They may come there to pray. We do not tithe, it can prove to be expensive to have a Mosque.

In the US there is now a trend for local Muslim communities to pool their resources and build a community Mosque. A few have gone so far as to actually hire a person to be the Imam. Currently there are about 2100 Mosques in the US but less than 700 full time Imams about half of them receive some type of Salary. . The highest paid Imam I am aware of makes less than $35,000 a year and no Imam receives anything like housing, cars or what ever. No extra frills. It is not a job one does to earn a living.

It doesn't look like there is a high bar to cross to become an Imam. And if Imams are not ordained, they are not expected to meet any standards. And since the money isn't good either, the position must attract mainly zealots. Just like the priesthood attracts pedophiles.

 

[Woodrow LI]

It doesn't look like there is a high bar to cross to become an Imam. And if Imams are not ordained, they are not expected to meet any standards. And since the money isn't good either, the position must attract mainly zealots. Just like the priesthood attracts pedophiles.

An Imam is neither a teacher nor a preacher. His/her role is to lead the obligatory prayers, assure the bills for the Mosque are paid and the Building is kept clean.

While an Imam is permitted to give a sermon, it must be completed before the Athan is called. Most Muslims won't show up at the Masjid until the Athan is nearly finished.

The only time an Imam is obligated to give a sermon is At Friday Jummah and it is supposed to be related to local community issues.

Most of us only want the Imam to do this:

Then we want him to shut up and keep his nose out of our lives

To see a Full Salat (Obligatory Prayer) as it is done in life view this video

 

[jonathan180iq]

One of my favorite parts of living in Jeddah was seeing people drop out their rug on the sidewalk, spout off some holy-holies at salat time, then pick up the rug and keep right on walking.

 

[Looncall]

The only qualifications to be an Imam is the local community will accept them as being able to lead the prayers. There are female Imams however an adult male if forbidden to stand behind a woman during prayer.

It has only been in recent times there has been an incentive to have an Imam that has some level of training.

But overall most Mosques do not have a full time Imam the oldest person present takes on the role and leads the prayers. Very often Muslims do not say their obligatory prayers in a Mosque many probably most do so at home, work, school or out on the street. World wide I suspect most Muslims do not pray inside a Mosque.

How does one become an Imam? You make a room in your house a Mosque and begin leading prayers there. If you have Muslim neighbors you let them know you have made a room in your house a Mosque. They may come there to pray. We do not tithe, it can prove to be expensive to have a Mosque.

In the US there is now a trend for local Muslim communities to pool their resources and build a community Mosque. A few have gone so far as to actually hire a person to be the Imam. Currently there are about 2100 Mosques in the US but less than 700 full time Imams about half of them receive some type of Salary. . The highest paid Imam I am aware of makes less than $35,000 a year and no Imam receives anything like housing, cars or what ever. No extra frills. It is not a job one does to earn a living.

Many thanks for this.

 

[Shad]

The only fair judge when it comes to human laws is majority consensus. But just as people have the right to offend, demean and insult I reserve the right to voice my disapproval.

Tyranny of the majority then? Sorry this is just as bad as people individually deciding what is offensive or not. This provides an excuse for banning the veil in France since the "majority" elected the officials which passed this law. Yes just yell "majority" and shrug your shoulders. One day you may find this majority has decided a view you support or even your religion is offensive. You must accept this view on your principle of majority rules.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Tyranny of the majority then? Sorry this is just as bad as people individually deciding what is offensive or not. This provides an excuse for banning the veil in France since the "majority" elected the officials which passed this law. Yes just yell "majority" and shrug your shoulders. One day you may find this majority has decided a view you support or even your religion is offensive. You must accept this view on your principle of majority rules.

In the past 74 years I have faced that on more than a few occasions. I've survived and still say that as long as I live in a country I will live by their laws.

Except in Monarchies, dictatorships and Theocracies it will eventually be majority rule that wins out.

 

[Harikrish]

One of my favorite parts of living in Jeddah was seeing people drop out their rug on the sidewalk, spout off some holy-holies at salat time, then pick up the rug and keep right on walking.

Sounds like Islam has survival skills built into the religion like praying on the move.

 

[jonathan180iq]

I think the fact that in the year 2014 everything is still surrounded by walls or enclosed in compounds says a lot.
Single men have their own entrances at restaurants, secluded from the family section, and all booths have curtains that you can draw for complete isolation...


It's that kind of avoidance behavior that will never allow for the ability to learn how to deal with things that we don't like. If I just closed off ideas or images that threatened me or my comforts, how would I ever learn to reconcile them with my own beliefs or customs? How would I learn to truly be accepting of other view points?

One of the physical social draw-backs of such an exclusive society is that boys will follow females as far as they can unless they are turned away by a counter group of boys. Why is not trusted that adolescents can control themselves under guidance and morals, instead of actual physical barriers? Constraints on human nature are what lead to perversions - it's not the other way around. Priests wouldn't be forcing little boys to pleasure them sexually if they were allowed to release such sexual tension with members of the opposite sex, or with people their own age, for example...

 

[jonathan180iq]

Just listening to some music while I work - and a line from a song came to mind...

"I'm just a soft-cover version of a much harder tale
A walking resemblance of ruts in the trail
Is it possible to divide your ideas and beliefs
Ideas and beliefs
Ideas and beliefs from the people that you don't like?"

 

[Harikrish]

Islam is a poor mans religion. It is a religion designed to oppress, suppress and control the poor treating them like cattle when they step out of line with chopping off of hands, beheading, stoning women and selling of baby brides. No rich free country would allow themselves to be subjected to this type of human cruelty. So it is not surprising why the largest Muslim countries are the poorest and least educated in comparison to their richer neighbours.

We are seeing an Islamic revolution and uprising taking place in the Middle East. It is a struggle to overthrow the dictators to create a more just society especially for the majority of Muslims stuck in poverty with growing unemployment among the younger generation.

Unfortunately the religious fanatics have taken charge of this civil unrest and are turning out more brutal and oppressive than the leaders they displaced. Because Islam is a primitive religion, its methods of meeting out justices is both uncivilized and right out of the stone ages.

Muslims don't see how backward they have gone because the majority of Muslims are uneducated and illiterate, some 800 million cannot read or write.

It is nice to be on this forum where you meet a few educated Muslims who have actually read the Quran. But what is alarming is the denial stemming from Muslims about the nature of their religion and the abject poverty and conditions of squalor it creates for its believers.

There are a few extremely wealthy Islamic countries like the Arab states that have flourished from the sale of oil which they have in abundance. But as the statistics show. These countries do not invest in education or the mobility of its underprivileged masses but spent lavishly on their own fantasy lifestyles of the extremely rich. They throw crumbs at the problems besetting millions of Muslims.

It is time to put the God back in Islam and save all those 6 year old child brides that are being sold into slavery in the name of Islam.

 

[columbus]

The thing is SG, it was not of nowhere. It was a satirical political cartoon that accurately portrayed something real. Satire is a form of criticism that would not work at all if there weren't some truth under the exaggeration. Here we have a saying you may be familiar with, "If the shoe fits, wear it". It is a short way of saying "If somebody says something bad about you, don't take it seriously if it isn't true. But if it is..." The Danish cartoon doesn't mean that all Muslims are dangerously violent, but he was pointedly criticizing the ones who are. They have been very much in the news lately.

In a bitter irony, the Muslims proved him correct. Muslims carried those cartoons around the globe instigating violence. There were riots, murder attempts. Danish people and businesses and embassies were targeted simply because they were Danish, even though the cartoon was the work of one guy and published by one magazine. Surely you see the irony of complaining that the cartoon unfairly targets all Muslims to justify the violence committed against anybody who happens to be Danish?

But not all Muslims are violent,

I never said they were. You keep adding the word "all" into what I said. I didn't.

because Muslims around me and I are not and didn't react to the cartoons,

I know that. But all of the people who did respond to some marks on paper with violence were Muslim.

so Muslims did not prove him correct.

Yes they did. Everybody who rioted and attempted murder were Muslim.

I didn't say that Muslims don't have violent ones and I didn't say there are not many of them. I actually know that Muslims have many crazies. My argument is simply that the publisher ended up insulting me and other peaceful Muslims.

I know that all Muslims are not violent. So did the publisher. Believe me, Americans are also violent and crazy. There are Americans who are drug addicts and greedy billionaires and corrupt politicians and rapists. I am not one. However, I know that Americans are all of these things and worse. But if the shoe doesn't fit me, I don't wear it.

With your comment you included me in that group of evil Muslims, my friend .

If the shoe doesn't fit you then don't wear it either. I believe that you are a very good person. The cartoon wasn't referring to you. But it was referring to other Muslim people.

Until now I still buy Danish products and appreciate the manufacturers for it.

Probably more than me. Around here about all the Danish products available are expensive cheeses. I don't spend much on cheese. I've been boycotting Denmark for years because I don't care for cheese enough to spend that much.

I mainly don't blame the publisher for the atrocities those Muslims did. I blame them for it.

You mean you blame Muslims.



Not all Muslims were insulted by the cartoons. There are Muslims I know personally who did not feel insulted at all. They knew that the shoe didn't fit them, but the shoe did fit some other Muslims. They are Muslims who prefer to live in the USA, so they are not the norm. But you cannot say that all Muslims were insulted by the cartoon because I know that isn't true. Being insulted by some marks on paper is a choice that people can make, but it is not something forced upon them by the paper.


I know Muslims who think that the USA is the most Muslim country in the world. Here, there are no Islamicists telling them what Islam means. They are free to believe and do what they think. And they get tax benefits by starting whatever religious group or organization they want to start.

Tom

 

[Smart_Guy]

I dunno man, the impression I could get from your post saying that "Muslims" proved the publisher right, is that it implies all Muslims. If anyone googles for "Muslims" and "violent", they might find this post and it is very highly possible the will get that impression too. Then it would have helped in more Islamophobia that will harm me and so many other Muslims. It does not require adding "all" to give a generalization meaning. I added it to emphasize the impression I got.

I still wouldn't say "Muslims" did prove the publisher right in his satire that Muslims are violent. It is because those Muslims that did the violence do not stand for "Muslims" or Islam. Those specific Muslims only proven they are violent individually or within their (sub)community. If we look at the percentage of those Muslims compared to the Muslims' number around the world, it would be way so small. Normal Muslims around the world already disapprove of this kind of Muslims and their behavior. Even the Heritage of Prophet Muhammad teaches us to not do such a thing. Please reconsider using such choice of words.

I believe it would be something like "some mobs of Muslims around the world took after the satire the publisher promoted" or something like that. Just to not help in causing more misunderstanding around the world about Muslims and Islam. Such delicate things could be a matter of life and death. Cases like these:
Student is murdered 'for being a Muslim' | Metro News
in which even the police suspect and investigate the victims were targeted for being Muslims, are highly expected to happen/have happened because of such misunderstandings.

Some people here on RF are already saying that all Muslims are violent with no moderate ones amongst them. Some of them talked to me saying they never expected a Muslim to be so normal!

But now anyways I know what you really meant, and I apologize for the misunderstanding. I ended up struggling with the choice of words you used instead of what you meant. Sorry about that.

 

[icehorse]

Hi Smart_Guy,

I'm figuring out a new thread, but I'll give a little preview here and ask your opinion...

In 1948 the UN created the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights". Many nations signed this agreement, but mostly Muslim majority nations did not. Later, in 1990 the OIC, a multi-nation Islamic organization created the "Cairo Declaration on Human Rights", to oppose the UN's declaration. The Cairo Declaration differed by saying:

- Human rights are subservient to Sharia
- women do not have equal rights to men
- apostasy is a crime
- marrying people from certain other religions is a crime

In summary, the International commission of Jurists declared the Cairo Declaration to codify "an intolerable discrimination against non-Muslims and women".

So this is not some fringe group of Muslims. This is a declaration carefully drafted by the OIC, an Islamic group with 57 member nations.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

I dunno man,
This speec is very clear-the
It is an invitation to peace
By revealing teachings that call for violence and the teachings of these teachings
This call forpeace
Clearly say
The world and all States crimes
Different
But all the crimes her reasons
Violencein the world
This is true
But Islam is in special education
It promote sviolence
It calls forviolence
Why does not attempt to understand the words of Muhammad
When he say I have theorders of God to fight with the people
What is called this
Also, the Quran says they fought
And in more than 96 no
Whatis called this education private school violence
This circular Yes
Every Muslimin the worldcarriesthese teachings
And believe
Even if by hand
But he exercised in his mind and his heart
When the family
Garywasa Muslim not refusefamily
He believes in his heart
Why not give us any protection
But leaving with the comba texercise the irverses with us untilthe end
Yes, every Muslim has the seeds of violence
More than other people

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Hi Smart_Guy,

I'm figuring out a new thread, but I'll give a little preview here and ask your opinion...

In 1948 the UN created the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights". Many nations signed this agreement, but mostly Muslim majority nations did not. Later, in 1990 the OIC, a multi-nation Islamic organization created the "Cairo Declaration on Human Rights", to oppose the UN's declaration. The Cairo Declaration differed by saying:

- Human rights are subservient to Sharia
- women do not have equal rights to men
Thanks for this info is very important
YesIslamic countriesdo not believeinhuman rights
Because she believes that rights come from the Quran
The Qur'an does not recognize human rights only Muslim rights, is also imperfect rights
There fore, Muslims are trying to get rid of these international conventions
Only hold when living in non-Muslim countries
They want to stand up for people of indigenous birth
For this they publish fatwas to kill anyone speak of Islam as Salman Rushdie and the Danish painter
And Farag Foda
And other people who expose Islam
And his teachings
- apostasy is a crime
- marrying people from certain other religions is a crime

In summary, the International commission of Jurists declared the Cairo Declaration to codify "an intolerable discrimination against non-Muslims and women".

So this is not some fringe group of Muslims. This is a declaration carefully drafted by the OIC, an Islamic group with 57 member nations.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Thanks for this info is very important
Yes Islamic countries do not believe in human rights
Because she believes that rights come from the Quran
The Qur'an does not recognize human rights only Muslim rights, is also imperfect rights
Therefore, Muslims are trying to get rid of these international conventions
Only hold when living in non-Muslimcountries
They want tostand up for people of indigenous birth
For this they publish fatwas to kill anyone speak of Islam as Salman Rushdie and the Danish painter
And Farag Foda
And other people who expose Islam
And his teachings

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Islam is a poor mans religion. It is a religion designed to oppress, suppress and control the poor treating them like cattle when they step out of line with chopping off of hands, beheading, stoning women and selling of baby brides. No rich free country would allow themselves to be subjected to this type of human cruelty. So it is not surprising why the largest Muslim countries are the poorest and least educated in comparison to their richer neighbours.

We are seeing an Islamic revolution and uprising taking place in the Middle East. It is a struggle to overthrow the dictators to create a more just society especially for the majority of Muslims stuck in poverty with growing unemployment among the younger generation.

Unfortunately the religious fanatics have taken charge of this civil unrest and are turning out more brutal and oppressive than the leaders they displaced. Because Islam is a primitive religion, its methods of meeting out justices is both uncivilized and right out of the stone ages.

Muslims don't see how backward they have gone because the majority of Muslims are uneducated and illiterate, some 800 million cannot read or write.

It is nice to be on this forum where you meet a few educated Muslims who have actually read the Quran. But what is alarming is the denial stemming from Muslims about the nature of their religion and the abject poverty and conditions of squalor it creates for its believers.

There are a few extremely wealthy Islamic countries like the Arab states that have flourished from the sake of oil which they have in abundance. But as the statistics show. These countries do not invest in education or the mobility of its underprivileged masses but spent lavishly on their own fantasy lifestyles of the extremely rich. They throw crumbs at the problems besetting millions of Muslims.

It is time to put the God back in Islam and save all those 6 year old child brides that are being sold into slavery in the name of Islam.

I agree with you
But there is something important
All the people of Arabic and Islamic revolution even applied the law declares the Quran
And this is in a closed cycle
Even coming out of the session and closed circuit to reject the teachings of the Koran by freedom from the Qur'an and Islam
Because the Koran is reason
And guide you to the splendid book to a Canadian writer
Is the truth but said in the end locked itself in Islam
The name ofthe book is the Blazersin Islam
I likedthe book
But I didn't like the compendium
Because the writer had not liberated from the restrictions of Islam
This is the big problem

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

In the past 74 years I have faced that on more than a few occasions. I've survived and still say that as long as I live in a country I will live by their laws.

Except in Monarchies, dictatorships and Theocracies it will eventually be majority rule that wins out.

Herewho wantsto teach usaprayer
Do you know how to impose Islamic prayers are the full membership was between Muhammad and God

Readcommentariesabout thisIslamicmyth
Can you negotiate with God even makes your links without transactions
Do you know why preventing mixed prayers for men and women
When you prostrate in front of woman and you left behind will get ready all your feelings of nationality
Really your prayers where discrimination between women and men and this caused
For more information you have
Movementsof prayer in IslamisPaganism
You arenotfreeChristianprayer
Aswe learnedChrist
Whenhe told us
If you wantto pray, youclose the door
Your fatherwhois in heavenwill reward you
To know each hagaitk
Christiankherrrtofrigidritualsinprayer
Because prayer is the relationship between man and his idol
A love affair
And not of fear and mutual interests relationship
Reallyyou don't understandyour religion