Do you think Pope is wise in making this statement even in quote?

[Booko]

From a Review on Muhammad and the Course of Islam, by H.M. Balyuzi:

H. M. Balyuzi has made a name for himself as a charming and persuasive apologist for the Bahá'í faith, and his trilogy on the great figures of that religion (JRAS, 1973, 2; 1975, 1) has not only set out in easily read and assimilated form the official Bahá'í view of the historical beginnings of their faith, but has also brought to light a good deal of hitherto unpublished information. Now, however, he has turned his hand to a much wider canvas, the whole course of Islamic civilization from its inception up to the first half of the 19th century. His justification for undertaking such a task is that (just as Muslims recognize Jesus, and Christians Moses) he as a Bahá'í "believes in the God-given mission of Muhammad". So one might hope for a new slant on Islam to set against the convinced Muslim view that it is the only and final truth, and the equally convinced Christian view that it is, in the last resort, a false faith (I leave out of account here more eccentric interpretations such as the atheist and the sociological).

It is sad, therefore, to have to report that the task has proved well beyond Balyuzi's capacity. He is no historian; he shows no ability to grasp the sweep of events, to sense the underlying trends and forces, to analyse and synthesize his material. ...​

Your suggestion seems neither appropriate nor promising ...

In that case, you always have the option of not pursuing it. At least you did last I noticed.

If you were looking for someone here capable of such a feat, then you were most certainly wasting your time.

 

[sindbad5]

Who might they be? Who are the independent scholars who might expose the errors in the following from the Mohammed and Mohammedanism?

hehehe, you get this from the "1910 Catholic Encyclopedia" ???
what you expect? poets about how good was Mohammed???

i told you... look in a reliable, trusted, independent, unbiased, sources
and not to the sources of another religion that consider Mohammed as a man brought all the evils (according to the Pope speech quoted from a catholic king)
another thing "JayHawker Soule", no muslim feel comfortable with this "Mohammedianism" word, and so it appears that your source relate muslims to Mohammed not to allah, in a try to lower them down.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In that case, you always have the option of not pursuing it. At least you did last I noticed. If you were looking for someone here capable of such a feat, then you were most certainly wasting your time.

Go snap at someone else, Booko. You offered a person who "believes in the God-given mission of Muhammad" as an independent source on Muhammed. The suggestion is laughable and fully worthy of dismissal.

 

[Laila]

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/15/pope.islam/index.html



As the spiritual leader of one of the world's major religions, he should really be very careful to bring the quote from the 14th century emperor to illustrate his point of view.
Either he is dumb, or he did it on purpose to create a diversion for the political situation of the world currently being bogged down by GB war of terror, which has been interpreted by most people now as "war on Islam". The the Pope would like to drag the millions and billions of Catholics into this muddy water...... sad:sad4:
It reminds me of the cartoon episode....

Unfortunately it is very sad. As a religious leader the Pope has been very irresponsible. Why quote something which is a blatant lie?
However, what the Pope has done is encourage more and more people to read about Islam. So if his motive was to switch people off Islam it is quite the contrary; he is provoking people into searching for the truth.

 

[TashaN]

I don't imagine that someone in his position, and the speech wasn't checked carfully before he say it, unless he was surprised by the speech because he is not the one who decide/write what he will talk about in the speech, i reckon.

Why the former pope wasn't falling in such a mistake or anything similar to it?

Do you think he/they did it in purpose because they thought Muslims will be angry the same as the cartoons did to them? maybe they thought muslims will attack christians and by doing that, he may inforce and encourage people to believe more in christianity and flee from islam.

I heard that many priests from the Vatican will embrace islam soon, this might be a reason as well.

 

[TashaN]

Who might they be? Who are the independent scholars who might expose the errors in the following from the Mohammed and Mohammedanism?

.... bla bla bla ....

​

... certainly not the kind of guy I'd want as a neighbor in civilized society.

How about:

- ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITANNICA

- GEORGE BERNARD SHAW

- REV. REGINALD BOSWORTH SMITH

- MICHAEL H. HART, when he ranked him 1st in the list of the 100 most inflential persons in history.

- NEPOLEAN BONAPARTE

- LAMAR TINE, the renowned historian, speaking on the essentials of human greatness wonders.

- PROFESSOR HURGRONJE

- EDWARD GIBBON and SIMON OCKLEY

- THOMAS CARLYLE, in his book HEROES AND HEROWORSHIP.

- MAHATMA GANDHI, in 'Young India'.

- SAROJINI NAIDU, the famous Indian poetess.

- ANNIE BESANT, in The Life & Teaching of MUHAMMAD.

- LANE-POOLE, IN 'Speech and Table Talk of the Prophet'.

- WASHINGTON IRVING

- PROF. JULES MASSERMAN of USA Psychiatric Association

Do you want to know what all those people said about prophet Mohammed "peace be upon him"?

Click in this link below.

http://www.geocities.com/baron_night84/DO_YOU_KNOW_HIM1.pps#256,1,Slide


Peace and blessing,

The Truth

 

[Laila]

I don't imagine that someone in his position, and the speech wasn't checked carfully before he say it, unless he was surprised by the speech because he is not the one who decide/write what he will talk about in the speech, i reckon.

Why the former pope wasn't falling in such a mistake or anything similar to it?

Do you think he/they did it in purpose because they thought Muslims will be angry the same as the cartoons did to them? maybe they thought muslims will attack christians and by doing that, he may inforce and encourage people to believe more in christianity and flee from islam.

I heard that many priests from the Vatican will embrace islam soon, this might be a reason as well.

You have made a very interesting point.

 

[Laila]

Crusade and Jihad are the same word

Crusade and jihad are not the same word.

Jihad, a concept which is loaded with the most intense spirituality has become the most negative symbol of religious expression.

This distortion goes far back to an advanced date of the Middle Ages. The understanding of certain Islamic notions was from very early on confined to an exercise of pure comparison. There were the crusades as there were also Muslim expansions; there were holy crusades and thus there were the “holy wars”, the famous jihad.

The real meaning of Islamic spirituality lies in reforming the space of one’s interiority, appeasing one’s heart at the level of acknowledgement of God. It is loving in transparency and living in the light. This tension towards the mastery of the self is conveyed in Arabic by the word jihad (the constant effort). Jihad is the effort of inward purification and of a human being’s spirituality before God.

As spectators of the world today we see everywhere groups, movements, parties and governments that call for jihad, armed struggle and political violence. There is no place for violence in Islam and people are misusing/abusing religion and terminology. This is the weakness of men and not the product of Islam.

War is allowed in Islam when injustice has taken place. This is the lesser jihad. However, a non-violent struggle is favoured and by no means should innocent people be hurt. There is no such thing as collateral damage in Islam. Political violence which finds its expression in the assassination of tourists, priests, nuns, women, children and in blind bombings and bloody slaughters - such actions are indefensible nor do they respect in the least the Quranic message.

The Prophet Muhhamed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) did not spread Islam with the sword. By saying or quoting that he did is a slander against is his commendable character. I would like to finish with quotes from the Noble Quran;

And if thy Lord had willed, whoever is in the earth would have believed, all of them, all together. Wouldst thou then constrain the people, until they are believers?
Quran Surah 10 verse 99.

There is nocompulsion in religion
Quran Surah 2 verse 256.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Who are the independent scholars who might expose the errors in the following from the Mohammed and Mohammedanism?

How about:

- ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITANNICA ...

Very well. Let's start with the first entry on your annoying laundry list. Tell us what the Encyclopaedia Britannica says that underminds the Catholic Encuclopaedia article.

 

[TashaN]

Very well. Let's start with the first entry on your annoying laundry list. Tell us what the Encyclopaedia Britannica says that underminds the Catholic Encuclopaedia article.

Go check it yourself in the link.

 

[greatcalgarian]

[FONT=&#23435]A mass of detail in the early sources show that he was [FONT=&#23435]an honest and upright man who had gained the [FONT=&#23435]respect and loyalty of others who were like-wise [/FONT][FONT=&#23435]honest and upright men." (Vol. 12)[/FONT]


[/FONT]ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITANNICA
[FONT=&#23435]MUHAMMAD: "......[FONT=&#23435] is the most successful of [FONT=&#23435]all Prophets and religious personalities.[/FONT][FONT=&#23435]"[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT]

Just to help Jayhawker, since he is so lazy to check out the source [/FONT]

 

[kai]

Crusade and jihad are not the same word.

Jihad, a concept which is loaded with the most intense spirituality has become the most negative symbol of religious expression.

This distortion goes far back to an advanced date of the Middle Ages. The understanding of certain Islamic notions was from very early on confined to an exercise of pure comparison. There were the crusades as there were also Muslim expansions; there were holy crusades and thus there were the “holy wars”, the famous jihad.

The real meaning of Islamic spirituality lies in reforming the space of one’s interiority, appeasing one’s heart at the level of acknowledgement of God. It is loving in transparency and living in the light. This tension towards the mastery of the self is conveyed in Arabic by the word jihad (the constant effort). Jihad is the effort of inward purification and of a human being’s spirituality before God.

As spectators of the world today we see everywhere groups, movements, parties and governments that call for jihad, armed struggle and political violence. There is no place for violence in Islam and people are misusing/abusing religion and terminology. This is the weakness of men and not the product of Islam.

War is allowed in Islam when injustice has taken place. This is the lesser jihad. However, a non-violent struggle is favoured and by no means should innocent people be hurt. There is no such thing as collateral damage in Islam. Political violence which finds its expression in the assassination of tourists, priests, nuns, women, children and in blind bombings and bloody slaughters - such actions are indefensible nor do they respect in the least the Quranic message.

The Prophet Muhhamed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) did not spread Islam with the sword. By saying or quoting that he did is a slander against is his commendable character. I would like to finish with quotes from the Noble Quran;

And if thy Lord had willed, whoever is in the earth would have believed, all of them, all together. Wouldst thou then constrain the people, until they are believers?
Quran Surah 10 verse 99.

There is nocompulsion in religion
Quran Surah 2 verse 256.

Mohammed
born c. 570, Mecca, Arabia
died June 8, 632, Medina

Arab prophet who established the religion of Islam.

The son of a merchant of the ruling tribe, he was orphaned at age six. He married a rich widow, Khadijah, with whom he had six children, including Fatimah, a daughter. According to tradition, in 610 he was visited by the angel Gabriel, who informed Muhammad that he was the messenger of God. His revelations and teachings, recorded in the Qur'an, are the basis of Islam. He began to preach publicly c. 613, urging the rich to give to the poor and calling for the destruction of idols. He gained disciples but also acquired enemies, whose plan to murder Muhammad forced him to flee Mecca for Medina in 622. This flight, known as the Hijrah, marks the beginning of the Islamic era. Muhammad's followers defeated a Meccan force in 624; they suffered reverses in 625 but repelled a Meccan siege of Medina in 627. He won control of Mecca by 629 and of all Arabia by 630. He made his last journey to Mecca in 632, establishing the rites of the hajj, or pilgrimage to Mecca. He died later that year and was buried at Medina. His life, teachings, and miracles have been the subjects of Muslim devotion and reflection ever since. amazing to think he won those battles without a sword

http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9372773

 

[Ciscokid]

imagine the reverse situation, if the shiekh of Azhar (the biggest islamic schools in the world) tell us something bad about pope and vatican (and i'm sure thier are lots of bad things over thier) what the "free world" will say?

I'd personally be disappointed if anyone made a huge fuss over it. So some shiekh says something negative about Catholicism or Christianity. Big deal. Let's fuss over things that really mean something.

 

[Laila]

Mohammed
born c. 570, Mecca, Arabia
died June 8, 632, Medina

Arab prophet who established the religion of Islam.

The son of a merchant of the ruling tribe, he was orphaned at age six. He married a rich widow, Khadijah, with whom he had six children, including Fatimah, a daughter. According to tradition, in 610 he was visited by the angel Gabriel, who informed Muhammad that he was the messenger of God. His revelations and teachings, recorded in the Qur'an, are the basis of Islam. He began to preach publicly c. 613, urging the rich to give to the poor and calling for the destruction of idols. He gained disciples but also acquired enemies, whose plan to murder Muhammad forced him to flee Mecca for Medina in 622. This flight, known as the Hijrah, marks the beginning of the Islamic era. Muhammad's followers defeated a Meccan force in 624; they suffered reverses in 625 but repelled a Meccan siege of Medina in 627. He won control of Mecca by 629 and of all Arabia by 630. He made his last journey to Mecca in 632, establishing the rites of the hajj, or pilgrimage to Mecca. He died later that year and was buried at Medina. His life, teachings, and miracles have been the subjects of Muslim devotion and reflection ever since. amazing to think he won those battles without a sword

http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9372773

Hi Kai,

Of course there was amed resistance but in what circumstances and conditions. The people of Mecca were wronged, persecuted by their own. Quoting from the Britannica gives you a summary. It doesn't tell you the history of each battle in detail, the size of his army was so small compared to the opposition - how do you think they won the battles? Reading the history will enable you to appreciate how peacful the Prophet Muhhamed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) really was.

 

[Laila]

I'd personally be disappointed if anyone made a huge fuss over it. So some shiekh says something negative about Catholicism or Christianity. Big deal. Let's fuss over things that really mean something.

Well, if something untrue was said about Catholicism or Christianity the Muslims would mind. Are you aware about how many muslims protested against the showing of the film 'The Da Vinci Code'. Even though it is a work of fiction it still makes a mockery out of religion.

I hear what you are saying Ciscokid - live and let live, leave it, but don't you think people are entitled to the truth? It will certainly help rid prejudices that people hold.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Just to help Jayhawker, since he is so lazy to check out the source

The ad hominem is as inaccurate as it is childish. The fact of the matter is that I only open applications from trusted sources.

 

[Ciscokid]

Well, if something untrue was said about Catholicism or Christianity the Muslims would mind. Are you aware about how many muslims protested against the showing of the film 'The Da Vinci Code'. Even though it is a work of fiction it still makes a mockery out of religion.

I hear what you are saying Ciscokid - live and let live, leave it, but don't you think people are entitled to the truth? It will certainly help rid prejudices that people hold.

I actually think that Muslims have acted OK over the Pope incident. It's the crap that we see below that they come out with here and there that turns me off real quick.

 

[Laila]

Of course it will turn you off Ciscokid, I'm not suprised and neither do I blame you.

Generally people of Eastern/Middle Eastern origin react in this way. Just look at how they react with non religious issues, it is the same thing. Act without thinking, vociferous demonstrations with inappropriate placcards, setting things on fire. Boy do the media pick out the times when it's linked to religion.

Of course I've probably offended a whole group of people, sorry but it's true! To be fair it is a small group (in comparison to the rest) who behave in this manner, stereotyping would be stupid.

In conclusion, Muslims (including me) take their religion very seriously and will react when provoked, especially if it is something blasphemous. I disagree with the way some groups react, a bit embarrasing really, but hey fantastic story for the media!!

 

[kai]

Hi Kai,

Of course there was amed resistance but in what circumstances and conditions. The people of Mecca were wronged, persecuted by their own. Quoting from the Britannica gives you a summary. It doesn't tell you the history of each battle in detail, the size of his army was so small compared to the opposition - how do you think they won the battles? Reading the history will enable you to appreciate how peacful the Prophet Muhhamed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) really was.

i have been studying the history

the battle of badr
the battle of the trench
the battle of uhud
the battle of Quraizhah
the battle of mutah

the sword would be a major factor in these battles no!

 

[Laila]

i have been studying the history

the battle of badr
the battle of the trench
the battle of uhud
the battle of Quraizhah
the battle of mutah

the sword would be a major factor in these battles no!

Good job Kai,

Why did these battles take place? and in what circumstances? Were people forced to accept Islam? I think You'll find that 'no' answers the later question, as for the former questions keep reading.