FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
I try to avoid killing insects if I can help it (it's usually unnecessary).
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Do you think stepping on bugs is wrong - why or why not?
- Thread starter Thrylix
- Start date
SheWhoSeesYou
New Member
I'm not sure I would see the point in stepping on the ant hill sized equivalent of Tokyo. The people would be microscopic, so no, I guess I wouldn't think of it as a moral issue. It be merely disappointing for a few minutes, because it would be a gorgeous little display of lights and colors.
The impact of destruction pretty much revolves around the beauty of what's being destroyed. Ants are not very appealing to anyone, and that's why so many don't think a handful of ants is of any consequence. For example, I think it may be likely that ants and butterflies have similar levels of intellect or sentience, but to me raising butterflies to kill and display is more evil than randomly stepping on a few ants out of boredom.
So, where exactly is the line drawn when it comes to likable creatures? Rats? And where is the line drawn when it comes to motive? It's all relative.
Thrylix
Member
That's what I'm saying. When they're that small, stepping on them isn't a moral issue. Even if the inhabitants were slightly bigger, like ant size, it's hard to blame a guy like me for being inclined to stamp my feet on them out of boredom. Does there even have to be a point? There's no point in kicking a rock either.
Thrylix
Member
Size helps decides how significant something is, for one thing.
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
Well I mean there is the suffering you are causing. Most animals (though maybe not ants) feel fear. Even if you do not do any physical harm, they still fear you.
I assume that you wouldn't feel bad if you were trampled by an elephant or mauled to death by a lion would you?
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
lol what?
I mean I guess...some of the most significant things required for our existence are microscopic though aren't they?
Does that make the life of elephants more valuable than people? Or the life of adults more valuable than that of infants?
SheWhoSeesYou
New Member
If they were ant sized, it wouldn't take long to realize that they are tiny people who think and speak and do everything we do. I can't help but imagine that they would be subjected to all sorts of experiments upon their discovery.
I think humans by nature are animalistic. Most of us are very slowly evolving into caring empathetic people. There's evil, and there is good in the core of every human ready to either flourish or wither. The proof is in our history. People who had less value placed on them for various reasons like economic status, race, etc. were forced to fight to the death for entertainment. People deemed to be of inferior race had little value and were placed in slavery. There are countless examples of people deeming others as inferior based on their differences. The more different someone or something is, the harder it is for the human race to relate and sympathize. Do you think the lighter skinned slaves may have had a slightly better life as a slave than the darker skinned slaves? Horrible still, but I bet they received the slightest bit more regard as a human, because they were slightly less different.
If ants were bigger, say the size of a rodent, I'm sure more people would think it's wrong to kill them because they are less inferior. It's not very logical; that's just the way it is.
So, Thrylix, how do you feel about microscopic humans? What about ant sized humans? What if we make them a little bigger, say praying mantis sized humans? How big do they have to be for their lives to be of value?
Well, you know what they say about men and thinking that size is everything.
Wow, tech companies got things completely backwards then when they decided to transform computers from taking up an entire room to now being in the palm of your hand...
SheWhoSeesYou
New Member
What do technology and morals have to do with one another? One could certainly say the large computer carries more significance though. That giant computer was a huge deal back then. I would say it was much more significant than the ipod being carried around today by some kid who resents it because they asked for an iphone.
Sees
Dragonslayer
When you are young it's not so easy to understand the way compassion and kindness to others always benefits you and cruelty or harm to others always hurts you. Looking at small pieces of the puzzle and looking at short term results or effects is a bug part if this. Some stay mentally sick, stupid, traumatized, fearful and never quite blossom into their best moral being.
I have a feeling you will figure it out on your own as long as you are honest with your self and do not look for easy-out excuses.
I thought of this thread again when I saw one of my 3 year old boys step on a bug and act proud of himself. Confusion, ignorance, the bully mentality, etc. always pop up most when young. Ponder whether having the ability or strength to hurt makes it right and makes it healthy. Think of the way it manifests large scale and what it does to you in the long run. You don't want to lose respect and appreciation for the momentary, precious forms of life - no matter how small or big.
No matter how we belittle and demean something - evil, tiny, ugly, fat, gross, etc. our own self and others benefit by doing as little harm as possible.
I used to have to hurt and sometimes kill "bad guys" but I wouldn't needlessly step on any bugs - solve the puzzle to that lol
I got faith in you little brother.
I have a feeling you will figure it out on your own as long as you are honest with your self and do not look for easy-out excuses.
I thought of this thread again when I saw one of my 3 year old boys step on a bug and act proud of himself. Confusion, ignorance, the bully mentality, etc. always pop up most when young. Ponder whether having the ability or strength to hurt makes it right and makes it healthy. Think of the way it manifests large scale and what it does to you in the long run. You don't want to lose respect and appreciation for the momentary, precious forms of life - no matter how small or big.
No matter how we belittle and demean something - evil, tiny, ugly, fat, gross, etc. our own self and others benefit by doing as little harm as possible.
I used to have to hurt and sometimes kill "bad guys" but I wouldn't needlessly step on any bugs - solve the puzzle to that lol
I got faith in you little brother.
They have plenty to do with each other, but I was making a flippant remark in response to the asinine idea that "smaller means less important/significant" presented not too long ago by the OP. :slap:
SheWhoSeesYou
New Member
OK, but slapping isn't nice. :no:
*chuckles* I meant it in a playful way. I guess not everybody perceives that emoticon in a playful fashion. :sorry1:
Thrylix
Member
Eh, what experiments? I would just crouch down and study mostly. Maybe pick up a few tiny vehicles to inspect the passengers, see how well their structures can stand up to certain forces. Pour soda on them, heh. Would you really see such acts as malevolent? I don't; I see it as being playful. Malevolent would be forcing them to worship me, build statues of me, torturing them etc. I wouldn't do anything near that level.
If I ran across a city that belonged to a race of ant-sized or near microscopic humans, I wouldn't feel bad about planting my foot on part of their town just to cause a little chaos. If I'm bored and want to crush part of their town, I don't see how it's any real harm done to them... gives the little guys something to do, haha. Would I really be hurting them? I don't see how; they could rebuild any damage I cause.
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SheWhoSeesYou
New Member
Once these tiny people were to be discovered, scientists would want to know everything they can about them. They would dissect them, put them through stress tests, emotional tests, sensory tests, sexual tests, you name it, they'll test it. They would want to know if they are like us in every way or not. Maybe they can even be put to work.
Pouring soda on them would be somewhat of a devastating disaster. Imagine Katrina was soda instead of water. They would be eaten alive by your ants and Uncle Bobs. That would be pretty crappy, and I wouldn't want that for them. If you are careful though, I guess I wouldn't mind too much. They'll get over it. Hell, people get **** on by birds, so what harm will a drop of soda be? It's obviously not a mature form of entertainment, but being immature sometimes is really not as terrible as people make it out to be. It's just not their cup of tea.
If your'e saying you say you would step on part of their town without hurting them, I'm assuming that means you plan to be careful not to step on them. Is that compassion I detect?? Or do you just not want to dirty your sneakers with their blood, which by the way being size 12 will make it difficult to step on their town carefully. Plus, your feet probably smell bad enough to kill them on the spot.
Back to the malevolence of forcing them to worship you, etc., I'm surprised; You seem like the type of guy who would enjoy being revered as a god. You could skip the torturing, but what would be so bad about making them believe you are god?
Thrylix
Member
Pouring some soda would make their town a sticky mess but do no irreparable damage to them.
Obviously some of them would be crushed by my foot. I meant there is no permanent harm to them because they could rebuild.
Nothing bad.. but what is there to gain? If such a race of tiny people existed, I'd just mess with them a little and leave. Maybe pick up some of the tiny vehicles and their passengers to take home. No harm done.
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Am I the only one who finds it sickening that you would consider crushing tiny people to be no big deal? You seem to be presuming that they would be reasonably intelligent if they can build technology. For all intents and purposes, your hypothetical tiny people seem to be the same as regular humans intellectually. If you were shrunk down to their size but remained the same in terms of ability to think and reason, why should the value of your life decrease (as you seem to imply that they have little value simply because they are small)? I am not following your reasoning at all.
If someone shrunk one of your loved ones down to the size of an ant, would you value their life any less?
If someone shrunk one of your loved ones down to the size of an ant, would you value their life any less?
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sindex.1983
Helpful Friendly Advice
I believe that we kill organisms all the time without realizing it - especially tiny ones, like insects and micro-organisms, every time we sit down, or take a step. Our planet is literally crawling with life, from the deepest cave to the darkest jungle to the mysterious oceans... I don't think we can avoid killing. Thus it's not really an act of free will to kill, most of the time, simply because we are not even aware that we are doing it and frankly, we wouldn't be able to live our lives if we worried about killing a germ every time we move.
Even our bodies kill indiscriminately - our white T-cells attack foreign invaders (viruses and bacteria) and the bodies of those little things end up in our snot and our excrement.
So, in other words, killing is a part of life. Make what you will of that. I don't know if this can go so far as to justify murder of another sentient being, or even a larger animal... but I just thought I would throw this out there.
Food for thought, hope you enjoy
Even our bodies kill indiscriminately - our white T-cells attack foreign invaders (viruses and bacteria) and the bodies of those little things end up in our snot and our excrement.
So, in other words, killing is a part of life. Make what you will of that. I don't know if this can go so far as to justify murder of another sentient being, or even a larger animal... but I just thought I would throw this out there.
Food for thought, hope you enjoy
SheWhoSeesYou
New Member
I still think they would be overrun by sugar ants and eaten alive or carried away by them. But then again, if they have survived thus far in constant danger of pests, then they must have some sort of defense system, although all the soda might compromise that. There would only be one way to really know what kind of damage that would cause.
Well, you said you don't see how there would be any real harm done to them. Death is certainly real harm. Unlike ants, they do have loved ones who will grieve over their loss. Imagine their horror when they run towards the destruction after hearing such a commotion and seeing the blood and guts splattered everywhere. It would be days, at least, until they know who they even lost. :ignore:
"No harm done." Oh, come on. You know that's a lie.
What would you do with them anyway?; Put them in a shoe box with some holes and shake them a little to get them moving around again?
If they think you are God I'm not sure what there is to gain. They could think of offerings that might please you. I'm pretty sure they could find ways to entertain you too. Don't you think?