Do you think the Bible could be the word of G-d? /for atheists & agnostics

[Robert.Evans]

No it doesn't! It allows you to make up any old crap you want to, and claim it is Spiritually Discerned!

YES, you leave the women and children and noncombatants, - whom will gather together and take care of themselves.

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If you are aguing a subject, you cannot take part of the book and leave part of it. That is what you are arguing with me about isn't it? So I spiritually discern and you don't.

Now you must reconsider your actions after war. The fighting men are dead or fled. Who are left? Old men perhaps, or they may be run through with the sword also. So there are women of various ages and children and animals to tend. And you say LEAVE THEM! I don't think you are thinking this through. They can't just pop down to the supermarket you know!

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So I spiritually discern and you don't.

What on earth does "spiritually discern" mean though? There's nothing spiritual about starting with a particular set of assumptions.

 

[Robert.Evans]

You are talking pure baloney!

We have a story of broken tablets, and the reality of over 600 Hebrew Laws.

"
Exodus 20 "God spoke" to all the people the words of the covenant, "even ten commandments" as it is written.

The people were afraid to hear more and moved "afar off", and Moses responded with "Fear not." Nevertheless, he drew near the "thick darkness" where "the presence of the Lord" was to hear the additional statutes and "judgments", (Exodus 21–23) all which he "wrote" in the "book of the covenant" which he read to the people the next morning, and they agreed to be obedient and do all that the LORD had said. Moses escorted a select group consisting of Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and "seventy of the elders of Israel" to a location on the mount where they worshipped "afar off" and they "saw the God of Israel" above a "paved work" like clear sapphire stone. (Exodus 24:1–11)

And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tablets of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. 13 And Moses rose up, and his minister Joshua: and Moses went up into the mount of God.

— First mention of the tablets in Exodus 24:12–13 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments



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So tell me, in chapter 24, if he has already read out the covenant and commands, why he then has to go back up to receive more?
He went up for the law that God gave. There were ten words, no more.

The OT is not written in one seamless writing. It is interpolated. So it has to be understood.

There is more than one story here and more than one people. The original Israel were black africans. Man added later through priests.
If you were not so sure of yourself (coming from hatred of a MALE God) you might listen better.

 

[Robert.Evans]

And how exactly is FACT - some feminist motive?????

You may not like some of what the Bible says, or where it started, but fact is fact.

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Fact is fact, yes. But you seem to be unable to receive it.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I have answered ALL, with actual Biblical texts, and related exegesis.

Facts - are not abuse. I showed the laws, - supposedly from your God, - allowing rape, murder of those different, slavery, etc.

LOL! Obviously I haven't ignored your comments, - as I have been rebutting you.

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You have rebutted nothing. I have explained it and you have refused to accept it as you have too much hatred for a male God. Your words lie tightly with the angry feminist movement now that hates all things male. You need to listen more to someone whose subject this is.

 

[Robert.Evans]

What is just in your brain, and not in the texts, ancient manuscripts concerning their meaning, and related exegesis, is not "truer meaning" in any debate, or reality.

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It is in the text. But you have to understand it. That is what you can't do and never will. Though even that suits your ends.

 

[Robert.Evans]

LOL! Obviously YOU don't!





MY GOODNESS! I cannot believe how much of a theological rut you are stuck in. That YHVH is God - is JUST YOUR OPINION. It makes no difference that the three religions of Abraham have murdered, and then politically forced their way, into prominence.



LOL! Your patriarchal undies are showing stronger and stronger the more you open your mouth.





LOL! NO! You did! I have told you repeatedly that I am Agnostic, - and you have called me Atheist because I don't believe in - YOUR - God!

I have already explained the difference between Atheism and Agnosticism. Atheist = NO GOD - period! Agnostic = not knowable, might be, might not be.

I have not made ANY Atheist comments to you. Again, - not believing in - YOUR BIBLE, and it's GOD YHVH, - does not make me Atheist. The book speaks for itself. Far to much crap for it to be from a God.

Do I believe in a God? Scratches head and wonders why Robert can't understand what Agnosticism is?

Again - Agnosticism = not knowable, might be, might not be.





There is no proof of any God - let alone your murdering YHVH being a God. The proof against YVH is in your Bible.

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We have already dealt with all these comments. Why are you recycling them? If you are agnostic, you wouldn't be arguing like an atheist. Your comments are atheist not agnostic. Agnostics don't know. You don't sound like someone who is not sure to me. I think you need to rethink.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I am discussing it without ranting.

You just don't like the FACTS I am presenting.

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You are not discussing anything. I have given you answers and the best you can do is to rudely say, BULL! Do you seriously think you are right becasue you are so outspoken or you bold your words?
Pick one verse or paragraph and we will discuss. I have already asked you to do this and you haven't. You keep coming back with these tired comments which are not correct.
Grow up now will you.
I'm waiting for one verse/passage, not the whole bible.

 

[Ingledsva]

but it wouldn't be.

It might be how THEY understood it. So? I am saying there was a right way and

they abused it. Mankind is good at doing things like that.

And again - I am saying they had laws allowing that crap - supposedly directly from YHVH.

SO - how are they abusing - something that tells them they can RAPE for instance?

These writings and laws prove YHVH of the Bible is not God.

And why do you keep saying these laws have changed when you have absolutely NO proof of any such thing?

I have told you it is the same name. Don't you listen?
To answer your first comment is pointless as you don't seem to understand what

I have already said.

Same name, - and you have argued multiple times using the Bible laws, yet you tell us your God is a different God! With the same name! Yeah right!

If the only thing the same - is the name - why are you arguing using Biblical law?

And what is the history/etymology of your "God"?

You keep repeating "Spiritually Discerned," but your arguments tell us you are a

Christian using the Bible of YHVH.

I am no Christian.
There is only One Ultimate. And that is the Name.

You use the name - the laws - etc. - but claim you are not a Christian, and I'll guess not a follower of the Hebrew tradition.

SO, - Why would you use these laws, - and especially the made up name of an Iron Age God - by Iron Age tribes?

I say spiritually discerned because I know full well that I could not work this out

without it. He releases to you what he does. If he does not allow you to

understand, then you don't understand.

MY! What convenient "spiritual discernment!"

You can just copout when you can't defend something, - and just say it is spiritual discernment, - and the rest of us just don't understand!

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[Ingledsva]

You are not discussing anything. I have given you answers and the best you can do is to rudely say, BULL! Do you seriously think you are right becasue you are so outspoken or you bold your words?
Pick one verse or paragraph and we will discuss. I have already asked you to do this and you haven't. You keep coming back with these tired comments which are not correct.
Grow up now will you.
I'm waiting for one verse/passage, not the whole bible.

LOL! I've obviously already given you the Biblical text and related exegesis for everything we have discussed.

I think it is you that needs to grow up, and stop the Bull!

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[Ingledsva]

We have already dealt with all these comments. Why are you recycling them? If you are agnostic, you wouldn't be arguing like an atheist. Your comments are atheist not agnostic. Agnostics don't know. You don't sound like someone who is not sure to me. I think you need to rethink.

This has now passed into absolute ridiculousness. I have posted the difference between Agnosticism and Atheism.

I am not Atheist, and I have told you such several times.

AGAIN!!!!!! Not believing YOUR idea of God - is any real God - does not make me an Atheist!

Get that through your head!

I am arguing that YHVH of the Bible does not exist, and the writings of the Bible PROVE YHVH is just a made up God in the writings of Iron Age tribesmen that want to murder, enslave, and rape.

Thus they wrote laws allowing them to do those things - and claimed they were from a God.

The God of the Bible is skitzo. He murders the innocent for the crimes of others. Allows murderers to be heroes = King David for instance, - and supposedly allows rape, slavery, and murder of those whom are different.

That is no God. And why anyone would want to follow such a God is beyond me.

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[Ingledsva]

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No it doesn't! It allows you to make up any old crap you want to, and claim it is Spiritually Discerned!

YES, you leave the women and children and noncombatants, - whom will gather together and take care of themselves.

If you are aguing a subject, you cannot take part of the book and leave part of it.

LOL! That is exactly what you are doing - and when it gets over your head - you cry it is spiritual discernment, - and I somehow just don't understand.

That is what you are arguing with me about isn't it? So I spiritually discern and you don't.

Now you must reconsider your actions after war. The fighting men are dead or fled. Who are left? Old men perhaps, or they may be run through with the sword also. So there are women of various ages and children and animals to tend. And you say LEAVE THEM! I don't think you are thinking this through. They can't just pop down to the supermarket you know!

"Spiritual discernment" in this case - is just digging around in your own brain, - when you can't rebut actual text.

You continue to add ridiculous RED HERRINGS like supermarkets.

YOU are the one whom needs to stop and think about this. They have been wandering tribes for thousands of years. They know how to survive. They can hike to related tribes, etc. There is no excuse for the enslavement, rape, or murder of women and children, and other noncombatants. Everything you put forward to allow for it - is just excuses for crimes.

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[Ingledsva]

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What is just in your brain, and not in the texts, ancient manuscripts concerning their meaning, and related exegesis, is not "truer meaning" in any debate, or reality.

It is in the text. But you have to understand it. That is what you can't do and never will. Though even that suits your ends.

Yeah right! Then why haven't you rebutted with that info? I'm waiting.

You cannot take the so called "spiritual discernment" of Jesus' message in the NT, and transfer that to Tanakh and it's laws - supposedly directly from YHVH, - or the Bible crap that we are debating.

You do not know what that "spiritual discernment" even means.

You are in reality just claiming you are right because you think so in your brain - YOU discern it as such. I do not. You have no proof.

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[Ingledsva]

Fact is fact, yes. But you seem to be unable to receive it.

The texts and related exegesis are facts.

What YOU think in YOUR brain, - some kind of so-called "spiritual discernment," - IS NOT FACT in any sense of the word. It is merely what YOU think it means.

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[Robert.Evans]

And again - I am saying they had laws allowing that crap - supposedly directly from YHVH.

Yes. But that is not the spiritual God. We are now talking about a man. All Gods/Goddesses were men women. They have to be to represent the higher form of Self, just as Yahshuah did. But that is still man as we are part of the same consciousness. We have, in part, made those laws, as we are the same consciousness you speak of.

SO - how are they abusing - something that tells them they can RAPE for instance?

They are not told to rape. I have explained this. This is your take on it as a female. There is a huge amount of hate for males in the west nowdays – that is why you don’t like the male Yhvh

These writings and laws prove YHVH of the Bible is not God.

In the sense that he is the God of this is aeon, or flesh, I could agree; as you are thinking of the Ultimate One. That is Source and not within the Image, which is what you speak of in the OT.

And why do you keep saying these laws have changed when you have absolutely NO proof of any such thing?

Long winded answer I have no time to deal with. But a cursory look at Exodus will show that a lot of laws in Lev and Deut were not there. So they were added to.

Same name, - and you have argued multiple times using the Bible laws, yet you tell us your God is a different God! With the same name! Yeah right!

Correct. There is only One. Same reflection, left to right etc.

If the only thing the same - is the name - why are you arguing using Biblical law?

Left hand right hand, same consciousness. There is only One.

You use the name - the laws - etc. - but claim you are not a Christian, and I'll guess not a follower of the Hebrew tradition.

I follow the law of the Mashiyach Yahshuah. That should not be out of line with the law, Old or New.

SO, - Why would you use these laws, - and especially the made up name of an Iron Age God - by Iron Age tribes?

That is the Name. That is the Ultimate

MY! What convenient "spiritual discernment!"


You can just copout when you can't defend something, - and just say it is spiritual discernment, - and the rest of us just don't understand!


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I have explained these things to you. You either don’t listen or refuse to because you wish to complain. I think it suits you.

 

[Robert.Evans]

This has now passed into absolute ridiculousness. I have posted the difference between Agnosticism and Atheism.


I am not Atheist, and I have told you such several times.


AGAIN!!!!!! Not believing YOUR idea of God - is any real God - does not make me an Atheist!


Get that through your head!

I have told you more than once that I know what it means. But you still write as an atheist and not an agnostic.

I am arguing that YHVH of the Bible does not exist, and the writings of the Bible PROVE YHVH is just a made up God in the writings of Iron Age tribesmen that want to murder, enslave, and rape.

Why on earth would anyone write a book about their own God only to prove he doesn’t exist?

I did explain this in the last post. I take your point. Though it is centered around the fact we always assume that God will do nothing wrong. Why I don’t know.

Thus they wrote laws allowing them to do those things - and claimed they were from a God.

Kind of. See last post.

The God of the Bible is skitzo. He murders the innocent for the crimes of others. Allows murderers to be heroes = King David for instance, - and supposedly allows rape, slavery, and murder of those whom are different.


That is no God. And why anyone would want to follow such a God is beyond me.


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It would seem mighty strange to me, speaking now to an open minded agnostic woman, that the three main faiths would all be wrong. Think about it. Just because you don’t like what you read does not mean it is not true.

 

[Robert.Evans]

LOL! That is exactly what you are doing - and when it gets over your head - you cry it is spiritual discernment, - and I somehow just don't understand.




"Spiritual discernment" in this case - is just digging around in your own brain, - when you can't rebut actual text.


You continue to add ridiculous RED HERRINGS like supermarkets.


YOU are the one whom needs to stop and think about this. They have been wandering tribes for thousands of years. They know how to survive. They can hike to related tribes, etc. There is no excuse for the enslavement, rape, or murder of women and children, and other noncombatants. Everything you put forward to allow for it - is just excuses for crimes.


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I have explained this to you several times though you refuse to accept it. They were not allowed to murder or rape or enslave. That was the law. The Ten Words show you that.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Yeah right! Then why haven't you rebutted with that info? I'm waiting.

You cannot take the so called "spiritual discernment" of Jesus' message in the NT, and transfer that to Tanakh and it's laws - supposedly directly from YHVH, - or the Bible crap that we are debating.

You do not know what that "spiritual discernment" even means.

You are in reality just claiming you are right because you think so in your brain - YOU discern it as such. I do not. You have no proof.

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My "proof" is the saviour, which you know nothing about.
The Scripture proves I am right. I can explain nothing else until you start accepting what I have already said.

 

[Robert.Evans]

The texts and related exegesis are facts.

What YOU think in YOUR brain, - some kind of so-called "spiritual discernment," - IS NOT FACT in any sense of the word. It is merely what YOU think it means.

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And what is in your brain? You OWN understanding of scripture, the same scripture that tells you PLAINLY that YOU will NOT understand it. Who should be listening to whom?

 

[Ingledsva]

Yes. But that is not the spiritual God. We are now talking about a man. All Gods/Goddesses were men women. They have to be to represent the higher form of Self, just as Yahshuah did. But that is still man as we are part of the same consciousness. We have, in part, made those laws, as we are the same consciousness you speak of.



They are not told to rape. I have explained this. This is your take on it as a female. There is a huge amount of hate for males in the west nowdays – that is why you don’t like the male Yhvh



In the sense that he is the God of this is aeon, or flesh, I could agree; as you are thinking of the Ultimate One. That is Source and not within the Image, which is what you speak of in the OT.



Long winded answer I have no time to deal with. But a cursory look at Exodus will show that a lot of laws in Lev and Deut were not there. So they were added to.



Correct. There is only One. Same reflection, left to right etc.



Left hand right hand, same consciousness. There is only One.



I follow the law of the Mashiyach Yahshuah. That should not be out of line with the law, Old or New.



That is the Name. That is the Ultimate

I have explained these things to you. You either don’t listen or refuse to because you wish to complain. I think it suits you.

Wow! What you ignore is amazing!

Somehow RAPE - becomes not rape - when their own law - and writings - say exactly - that even a Priest can RAPE.

Mashiyach Yahshuah comes from the NT which grew from Tanakh - so it is bull when you chop what you want, and call the rest of your belief "spiritually discerned."

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