Do you think the Bible could be the word of G-d? /for atheists & agnostics

[Ingledsva]

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The texts and related exegesis are facts.

What YOU think in YOUR brain, - some kind of so-called "spiritual discernment," - IS NOT FACT in any sense of the word. It is merely what YOU think it means.

And what is in your brain? You OWN understanding of scripture, the same scripture that tells you PLAINLY that YOU will NOT understand it. Who should be listening to whom?

You have some very strange ideas!

Actual Biblical text, relate Hebrew writings showing how they understood those texts, and related exegesis, trump your info from YOUR BRAIN - which you are calling "spiritual discernment!"

You obviously do not actually have "spiritual discernment" in this case, as you can't even accept known FACTs - such as they did RAPE, enslave, and MURDER those whom were considered different.

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[Ingledsva]

My "proof" is the saviour, which you know nothing about.
The Scripture proves I am right. I can explain nothing else until you start accepting what I have already said.

LOL! You keep ignoring the fact that I was raised Christian, and studied the texts.

The scriptures do not prove you are correct.

You only THINK you have correct "spiritual discernment."

Your arguments prove that you do not.

As stated already, - you can't even accept know FACT.

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[Ingledsva]

I have explained this to you several times though you refuse to accept it. They were not allowed to murder or rape or enslave. That was the law. The Ten Words show you that.

And again you ignore the facts - including the info I provided from Exodus, about Moses and THE REST OF THE LAWS BEYOND THE TEN - which YHVH continued to gave him - which the people were afraid to hear.

They did everything these laws allowed them to do. RAPE, ENSLAVE, MURDER.

I suggest you read from Exodus 20 on.

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[Ingledsva]

...

Why on earth would anyone write a book about their own God only to prove he doesn’t exist?
...
It would seem mighty strange to me, speaking now to an open minded agnostic woman, that the three main faiths would all be wrong. Think about it. Just because you don’t like what you read does not mean it is not true.

They wrote a book about a FALSE God to give themselves status as God's people, - and wrote laws containing what they WANTED to do, - claiming they were from a God - to sanction such horrific actions.

You have to remember that this was written from passed down stories. This made tweaks to the meanings easy.

The three main Abrahamic faiths all spring from one story source. That source is still false. All three used torture and murder to spread, and are NOT from any God.

The Abrahamic faiths are obviously not from any God. The material is skitzo, and horrific.

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[Robert.Evans]

Wow! What you ignore is amazing!

Somehow RAPE - becomes not rape - when their own law - and writings - say exactly - that even a Priest can RAPE.

Mashiyach Yahshuah comes from the NT which grew from Tanakh - so it is bull when you chop what you want, and call the rest of your belief "spiritually discerned."

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Verse for where it says they are allowed by law to rape, please.

 

[Robert.Evans]

They wrote a book about a FALSE God to give themselves status as God's people, - and wrote laws containing what they WANTED to do, - claiming they were from a God - to sanction such horrific actions.

You have to remember that this was written from passed down stories. This made tweaks to the meanings easy.

The three main Abrahamic faiths all spring from one story source. That source is still false. All three used torture and murder to spread, and are NOT from any God.

The Abrahamic faiths are obviously not from any God. The material is skitzo, and horrific.

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You equate a God with good then?

 

[Robert.Evans]

And again you ignore the facts - including the info I provided from Exodus, about Moses and THE REST OF THE LAWS BEYOND THE TEN - which YHVH continued to gave him - which the people were afraid to hear.

They did everything these laws allowed them to do. RAPE, ENSLAVE, MURDER.

I suggest you read from Exodus 20 on.

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And I mentioned that God supposedly gave Mosheh the law AFTER he had just read it out to all the people. So what was he reading?
You are not engaging with the discussion

 

[Robert.Evans]

You keep ignoring the fact that I was raised Christian

Why does that matter? This is therapy for you I think.

 

[Ingledsva]

[/quote]

Yes. But that is not the spiritual God. We are now talking about a man. All Gods/Goddesses were men women. They have to be to represent the higher form of Self, just as Yahshuah did. But that is still man as we are part of the same consciousness. We have, in part, made those laws, as we are the same consciousness you speak of.

Isn't that convenient for you! You use the name YHVH, argue with us using the Bible laws (homosexuality, etc.) follow Jesus under Yahshuah, and then claim you follow a "spiritual God" not the God of the Bible.

They are not told to rape. I have explained this. This is your take on it as a female. There is a huge amount of hate for males in the west nowdays – that is why you don’t like the male Yhvh

They could take a captive off the field - let her scream for the family he had just slaughtered - and then screw her. That is RAPE, - and you cannot change that.

We know this is RAPE and how they actually understood the law - because we have related Hebrew material telling us they could RAPE - even the Priests.

And by the way - go back and reread that Priest rape text, - as that puts the lie to the idea of "saving them," "marriage," etc. It specifically says the Priest could rape them once, and that is their final contact, as the women was not Hebrew. Rape and leave.

Long winded answer I have no time to deal with. But a cursory look at Exodus will show that a lot of laws in Lev and Deut were not there. So they were added to.

Most of the laws are throughout Tanakh.

Correct. There is only One. Same reflection, left to right etc.

Then why are you making it the obviously skitzo YHVH of the Bible?

Again - rather convenient to use the Names YHVH and Yahshuah, argue using those Biblical laws, and then tell us you follow a different God!

Left hand right hand, same consciousness. There is only One.

Again - then why utilize the skitzo YHVH and laws of ONE book the Bible?

I follow the law of the Mashiyach Yahshuah. That should not be out of line with the law, Old or New.

Yahshuah claimed to be the awaited Hebrew Messiah, and said he DID NOT come to change the Laws! Thus we are right back to Tanakh, and YHVH of that Tanakh.

SO, - Why would you use these laws, - and especially the made up name of an Iron Age God - by Iron Age tribes?

That is the Name. That is the Ultimate

I have explained these things to you. You either don’t listen or refuse to because you wish to complain. I think it suits you.

Again - such words from you - show that you actually follow the Bible - and just twist to so-called "spiritual discernment" when you can't deal with, or argue against, the things that the text says.

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[Ingledsva]

Why does that matter? This is therapy for you I think.

It matters because YOU keep claiming I don't understand.

I understand very well. I have studied it.

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[Ingledsva]

And I mentioned that God supposedly gave Mosheh the law AFTER he had just read it out to all the people. So what was he reading?
You are not engaging with the discussion

You need to reread that section.

YHVH supposedly speaks to the people - they hear ten laws and become afraid and move back. YHVH continues to give laws to Moses. He tells them to the people and they agree to keep them.

The tablets story is after the above info.

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YHVH speaks the first ten commandments to the people, - THEN

Exo 20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.

Exo 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Exo 20:20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.

Exo 20:21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.

Exo 20:22 And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.

From here on it continues the Laws! The continuation of the laws given to Moses.


Exo 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.

Exo 24:4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.

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[Robert.Evans]

Isn't that convenient for you! You use the name YHVH, argue with us using the Bible laws (homosexuality, etc.) follow Jesus under Yahshuah, and then claim you follow a "spiritual God" not the God of the Bible.



They could take a captive off the field - let her scream for the family he had just slaughtered - and then screw her. That is RAPE, - and you cannot change that.

Show me that in the Torah.
It says in law that the woman has time to greive for her loss in war. She is not left destitute. You keep on about this rape thing because you don't like males in charge which makes it sound like a paranoid statement.

We know this is RAPE and how they actually understood the law - because we have related Hebrew material telling us they could RAPE - even the Priests.

And by the way - go back and reread that Priest rape text, - as that puts the lie to the idea of "saving them," "marriage," etc. It specifically says the Priest could rape them once, and that is their final contact, as the women was not Hebrew. Rape and leave.

I assume you are on about commentary.

Most of the laws are throughout Tanakh.



Then why are you making it the obviously skitzo YHVH of the Bible?

Again - rather convenient to use the Names YHVH and Yahshuah, argue using those Biblical laws, and then tell us you follow a different God!




Again - then why utilize the skitzo YHVH and laws of ONE book the Bible?



Yahshuah claimed to be the awaited Hebrew Messiah, and said he DID NOT come to change the Laws! Thus we are right back to Tanakh, and YHVH of that Tanakh.

Till all things were fullfilled, is what it says. They were fullfilled.

Again - such words from you - show that you actually follow the Bible - and just twist to so-called "spiritual discernment" when you can't deal with, or argue against, the things that the text says.

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Name one place I can't. I have asked for one specific passage or verse if you want to go into it in depth. IF.....

 

[Robert.Evans]

You need to reread that section.

YHVH supposedly speaks to the people - they hear ten laws and become afraid and move back. YHVH continues to give laws to Moses. He tells them to the people and they agree to keep them.

The tablets story is after the above info.

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YHVH speaks the first ten commandments to the people, - THEN

Exo 20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.

Exo 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Exo 20:20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.

Exo 20:21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.

Exo 20:22 And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.

From here on it continues the Laws! The continuation of the laws given to Moses.


Exo 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.

Exo 24:4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.

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Do you not understand that the body of the OT is not one straight work but is interpolated? That is why I say it is spiritually discerned.
The first Ten Words were the only ones that the Jealous El spoke. After that it is through a lesser god (same name)

You need to reread it. He has be told laws, and been told to go up, which he does not. First he tells them laws that he then goes back up for. You are reading it like its a normal book, which it is not. There are many interpolations from many generations for it to come to its final stage as we see it. There is a reason for that.

 

[Robert.Evans]

It matters because YOU keep claiming I don't understand.

I understand very well. I have studied it.

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It is not wise to say you understand a subject that has nothing to do with you. It is like someone saying they understand German when they only know odd words. That is what it is like listening to you.

Can we establish what your gripe is all about. It appears to be that the God of the OT is not very nice so you say that means he is not God. Is that it?

And if so, what about the places where he is nice. Is he God then, or is this a different God.

Considering he also says he does both, good and evil - Isa 45 - Surely he would have to say he does just good if you were to "prove" that it was not the right God. But he says plainly he does it.

 

[Robert.Evans]

You need to reread that section.

YHVH supposedly speaks to the people - they hear ten laws and become afraid and move back. YHVH continues to give laws to Moses. He tells them to the people and they agree to keep them.

The tablets story is after the above info.

*

YHVH speaks the first ten commandments to the people, - THEN

Exo 20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.

Exo 20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Exo 20:20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.

Exo 20:21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.

Exo 20:22 And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.

From here on it continues the Laws! The continuation of the laws given to Moses.


Exo 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.

Exo 24:4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.

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.....and then he goes up to receive what he already knows!

 

[Unification]

Dude has NEVER been used to show disrespect.



And where did that come from??? I never mentioned myself in this context!



You are attempting to twist the conversation from the awful crap of the Bible, to your misconceived ideas about women today.



Really? Three year olds were sold by their fathers to pedophile men. According to JEWISH sites which I have quoted here - men in war - including the Priests - could RAPE the enemy women. Women were owned and passed from one male to another (no choice)= rape. Men held concubines which are SEX SLAVES=RAPE. Men could hold slaves forever and breed them like animals = RAPE. I could go on and on.



I'll assume you are referring to the Bull "S" story of Lot and his daughters? The one where supposedly after being told by an angel of God that the city they were in would be spared, somehow decided all people were dead so they could procreate with their father? And that father that was so intoxicated - he couldn't recognize his own daughters - twice - yet somehow got it up to complete the act???? LOL! NOT!



We have repeated examples in the Bible of ancient patriarchal ideas of KILL the women and children of a male to get back at the male. King David's BABY is killed because King David did wrong. The women of the harem dragged into the street to be raped - because the owner-MALE did wrong, etc.



And baby apes are stronger then men. How strong an individual is, - is the stupidest reason for anyone to rule nations.

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The story of Lot could be about Meiosis, and cell replication. The parent cell, two daughter cells, and then two more daughter cells.

During evolution, Moabites and Ammonites(animal species) could have evolved from Lot(resin).

 

[Desert Snake]

Were the modified laws moral statements of what is good and bad?

Ciao

- viole

Not really. Perhaps in some relative sense.

 

[viole]

Not really. Perhaps in some relative sense.

Yes very relative. Which should be the contrary of objective.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Desert Snake]

Yes very relative. Which should be the contrary of objective.

Ciao

- viole

Objective what?

 

[Shad]

The story of Lot could be about Meiosis, and cell replication. The parent cell, two daughter cells, and then two more daughter cells.

During evolution, Moabites and Ammonites(animal species) could have evolved from Lot(resin).

Love this post hoc rationalization. Keep fitting the pieces of modern knowledge in whatever you wish. It is hilarious watching people read whatever they want into a text.