Sure it does. To even consider the question exposed the 'existence of free will'.
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Do you Think we have Free Will
- Thread starter leroy
- Start date
PureX
Veteran Member
It's not my definition. Free will is a cognitive assessment, not a material state. The material state version of it would be called 'chance'. But chance has no will.
That must therefore be a joke. To end at 'in the beginning' (genesis) a man made creation (story).
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Don't you have a sense of deja-vous here?
This has already been explained in another thread.
You are putting the cart before the horse .. if G-d knew that you would choose other than steak,
then He would know it. Your choice is not affected .. you might choose to eat fish .. it makes no difference.
The reason for all this confusion, is that you see the future as having different properties than the past..
..when in the grand scheme of things, it does not .. i.e. 'now' is only a perception, that appears to separate the past and future. Einstein knew this.
It is no illusion. Your choice is really free .. it is our perception of time that is the 'illusion'.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Only a person that never read the actual philosophical arguments used by hard determinists would say that.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
If it is not your definition, how did you learn of it? Source?
Only?
The determinists are not the ONLY people capable of debating and arguing free will. It's a choice of conscious life using free will.
Therefore................ free will exists even with prophecy (visions) showing a future event.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
I have never said otherwise.
Let's cut to the chase. What philosophy works/papers/texts/books have you read about this subject?
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Of course it does .. you want to pretend we are all automatons, incapable of
making choices .. which would mean that the cars on the highway are not being
driven by their drivers, but by some mysterious force of destiny.
Great, then claiming 'only' about another is edgy.
Many flavors even down to the Turing test.
Why ask? Do you expect everyone to be a scholar to exhibit free will?
In Newton's time the view of Physics was "Hard Determinism," because everything from his perspective was explained by linear math, As science advanced through the 19th and 20th century it became apparent linear math failed to explain the observed nature. Randomness was first proposed to explain this variability, but as the our knowledge of the Theory of Relativity, Quantum Mechanics a new determinism was developed to explain the variability in the outcome of cause and effect events. Chaos Theory was developed based on fractal math taking into considering the many variable in nature. Thee conclusion of the new determinism where out physical existence is not random. The only thing that is found as random is the timing of the outcome of individual events. The patterns of all cause and effect outcomes.
Again and again we are natural beings and our behavior and choices of willful decisions which follow natural patterns, therefore "Hard determinism" cannot explain whether our human will.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
You should read one more time what I have said.
The.... what? Your example of what you have read about the subject is the... turing test?
Not really related to the question asked. It was a question concerning the degree of determinism in nature. It is obvious a degree of determinism is observed in nature, because if not science would be impossible. See post #231.
Our consciousness is a product of natural processes like everything else. It is not able to be completely independent of its thoughts and actions.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Hard determinism doesn't require linear math. Chaos theory is compatible with hard determinism.
As I described in many posts the existence of Free Will is at best a matter of degree, and not "Libertarian Free Will." or "Hard Determinism" and no Free Will.
For there to be "Libertarian Free Will our decision making process must be free of outside influences which is impossible.
We have a 'Will' but it is not necessarily free.
I am not listing everything that I have read. Seth Lloyd utilized a method that I recalled and even now identify as far more physics based, the Turing test and QM
"""
A Turing test for free will
Seth Lloyd[1310.3225] A Turing test for free will
arxiv.org
That should cover your thread and a depth, that you could use to help with rational.
No as explained.
Koldo
Outstanding Member
Source then?
Koldo
Outstanding Member
I ask you to tell me what philosophy text you have read concerning free will and you present to me the work of a person that has no background in philosophy... Do you understand the problem?
Sure, you expect accredited opinion.
As if every soul had to learn from a canon of accredited material to even understand their own position.