Do you trust God?

[Trailblazer]

I've got an "if" for you. If the tomb was empty. And his disciples said they saw Jesus alive Did he rise from the dead?

No.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's much easier for me to believe than the Baha'i "metaphorical" explanation. That all four gospel writers told a fictional account of Jesus rising from the dead.

Yes.

 

[EtuMalku]

Nice try, but I have looked at all those posts and nowhere did I say:

the texts of my belief are evidence for the truth of that belief.

or

there is evidence in His writings that proves that He was a Messenger of God.

That's because you are either in denial of using circular reasoning or you simply don't understand what circular reasoning is. I'm not the only one implying this.

 

[EtuMalku]

I did not say that you are....
I said "That is all atheists have in their bag of tricks, circular reasoning,"

Your reply was to my post "I have concluded that you are in CLD (Circular Logic Denial)
Your reply clearly implies that you are referring to me as an atheist, why else would you single out atheism from all the other beliefs systems when replying to me?

 

[Trailblazer]

That's because you are either in denial of using circular reasoning or you simply don't understand what circular reasoning is. I'm not the only one implying this.

I know what circular reasoning is but I am not trying to make a logical argument for my beliefs, and as such I am not using circular reasoning.

Circular reasoning (Latin: circulus in probando, "circle in proving"; also known as circular logic) is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with.[1] The components of a circular argument are often logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true. Circular reasoning - Wikipedia

So here is a perfectly valid circular argument:

If the premise Baha’u’llah was a Messenger of God is true, then the conclusion God exists must be true

Of course since I can never prove that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God is true I would never present such a logical argument.

Nevertheless, if Baha’u’llah was a Messenger of God is true, then God exists must be true.

 

[Trailblazer]

Your reply was to my post "I have concluded that you are in CLD (Circular Logic Denial)
Your reply clearly implies that you are referring to me as an atheist, why else would you single out atheism from all the other beliefs systems when replying to me?

I said: That is all atheists have in their bag of tricks, circular reasoning, but sadly they do not even understand the fallacy.

I did not say: That is all you have in your bag of tricks, circular reasoning, but sadly you do not even understand the fallacy.

I was referring to atheists, not to you. I already knew you were not an atheist from something you said to someone in another post.

 

[EtuMalku]

I said: That is all atheists have in their bag of tricks, circular reasoning, but sadly they do not even understand the fallacy.

I did not say: That is all you have in your bag of tricks, circular reasoning, but sadly you do not even understand the fallacy.

I was referring to atheists, not to you. I already knew you were not an atheist from something you said to someone in another post.

Ok then.

 

[KWED]

I do not claim that, I believe it.

Same thing.
With all due respect, it you don't understand what basic terms and simple concepts mean, there is very little point in you posting replies to anyone.

Who am I to judge whether God is all-good? Nobody.

You earlier claimed that "God is all good".
If, in addition to not understanding what words mean, you are also going to deny saying things that you said (and which are recorded on here for all to see), it makes your position even more untenable and makes a mockery of the whole concept of reasonable debate.

 

[Trailblazer]

Same thing.
With all due respect, it you don't understand what basic terms and simple concepts mean, there is very little point in you posting replies to anyone.

A claim is not a belief and a belief is not a claim.

Claim: state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=claim+means

Claim: to say that something is true or is a fact, although you cannot prove it and other people might not believe it: claim

Belief:
1. an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
"his belief in the value of hard work"

2. trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
"a belief in democratic politics"
https://www.google.com/search

Belief:
the feeling of being certain that something exists or is true:
His belief in God gave him hope during difficult times.
Recent scandals have shaken many people's belief in (= caused people to have doubts about) politicians.
belief

You earlier claimed that "God is all good".
If, in addition to not understanding what words mean, you are also going to deny saying things that you said (and which are recorded on here for all to see), it makes your position even more untenable and makes a mockery of the whole concept of reasonable debate.

I never claimed that God is all-good, I said that I believe it. I do not claim it because it cannot be proven.

I have no interest in a debate because I am not trying to prove anything.

 

[ppp]

It is not God's fault people don't read and understand His communication. That responsibility falls on humans.

If your god exists and is omnipotent, than yes, it is his fault. Everything good, bad, and neutral is his fault. Because omnipotent. If he is not omnipotent, then there is no reason to call him "God".

 

[Trailblazer]

If your god exists and is omnipotent, than yes, it is his fault. Everything good, bad, and neutral is his fault. Because omnipotent. If he is not omnipotent, then there is no reason to call him "God".

That is completely illogical.
Everything good, bad, and neutral that is caused by human free will choice and action is their fault.

God is only responsible for fate/predestination, things that happen that are not freely chosen by humans.

 

[ppp]

That is completely illogical.
Everything good, bad, and neutral that is caused by human free will choice and action is their fault.

God is only responsible for fate/predestination, things that happen that are not freely chosen by humans.

Nope. Libertarian free will is illogical without an omnipotent god. Doubly so with one. Under the hypothetical that there is an omnipotent god, such a god could have chosen to make any universe. Of all the universes that hypothetical omnipotent god could make, he chose this one - the one where I pulled the wings off a bug when I was 5, He also chose the one where we get crippling pandemics, natural disasters and genetic diseases. He knowingly made the choice of this universe and all of the events in it.

 

[Trailblazer]

Nope. Libertarian free will is illogical without an omnipotent god. Doubly so with one. Under the hypothetical that there is an omnipotent god, such a god could have chosen to make any universe. Of all the universes that hypothetical omnipotent god could make, he chose this one - the one where I pulled the wings off a bug when I was 5, He also chose the one where we get crippling pandemics, natural disasters and genetic diseases. He knowingly made the choice of this universe and all of the events in it.

God chose to create a world like this but God did not determine the events that happen in this world.

God knows what is going to happen because God has foreknowledge, but God's knowledge is not what causes anything to happen.

“Every act ye meditate is as clear to Him as is that act when already accomplished. There is none other God besides Him. His is all creation and its empire. All stands revealed before Him; all is recorded in His holy and hidden Tablets. This fore-knowledge of God, however, should not be regarded as having caused the actions of men, just as your own previous knowledge that a certain event is to occur, or your desire that it should happen, is not and can never be the reason for its occurrence.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 150

 

[ppp]

God chose to create a world like this but God did not determine the events that happen in this world.

An omnipotent god would necessarily know every event that would happen in any universe he created, at the time that the universe was being created. Which in turn means that he chose the universe where brutal acts occur, as opposed the one where they don't.

And not generally, but every sing, specific brutal act for the entirety of the universe.

 

[Trailblazer]

An omnipotent god would necessarily know every event that would happen in any universe he created, at the time that the universe was being created. Which in turn means that he chose the universe where brutal acts occur, as opposed the one where they don't..

What God knows has nothing to do with omnipotence, God knows everything because God is omniscient.

God chose to create a universe where brutal acts occur, as opposed the one where they don't, but God did not cause the brutal acts to occur. Humans cause those acts.

 

[ppp]

What God knows has nothing to do with omnipotence, God knows everything because God is omniscient.

Omnipotence means that you can do anything. If you cannot know everything, then you are not omnipotent.

God chose to create a universe where brutal acts occur, as opposed the one where they don't, but God did not cause the brutal acts to occur.

Incorrect. God choosing to create a universe where Sid kills Nancy on Oct 12, 1978 at 3:08 am is a direct and intentional decision and action to create that specific event at that specific time with those specific people. .When God created the universe he chose to place that specific murder into it at that specific time.

Humans cause those acts.

I know you believe that, but the logic does not bear that out.

 

[Trailblazer]

Omnipotence means that you can do anything. If you cannot know everything, then you are not omnipotent.

Omnipotence means all-powerful. Omniscience means all-knowing.

Incorrect. God choosing to create a universe where Sid kills Nancy on Oct 12, 1978 at 3:08 am is a direct and intentional decision and action to create that specific event at that specific time with those specific people. .When God created the universe he chose to place that specific murder into it at that specific time.

Where did you get these ideas?
God does not choose human actions.
God does not cause humans to decide or act as they do.
Go tell any court of law that God is responsible for a murder.
Everyone knows that humans have free will to choose between good and bad actions.

I know you believe that, but the logic does not bear that out.

Logic does not support your conclusions because they are based upon false premise.

 

[ppp]

Omnipotence means all-powerful. Omniscience means all-knowing.

Your response is just a big, "Nuh uh!" I explained my reasoning. If you disagree, and really, really, really care about it, then you are going to have deal with why. Do you really, really, really, care? Since you think your god is omniscient, I don't see that it matters.

Where did you get these ideas?

My brain. Where do you get yours?

God does not choose human actions.
God does not cause humans to decide or act as they do.

That is just denial. Not reasoning.

Go tell any court of law that God is responsible for a murder.

Irrelevant. The legal system is not an authority on the argument on free will and does not accept spectral evidence.

Everyone knows that humans have free will to choose between good and bad actions.

I hope you are just being snarky, there. If you are being serious then you are terribly misinformed.

Predestination - Wikipedia
Theological determinism - Wikipedia
Providentialism - Wikipedia
Determinism - Wikipedia

Logic does not support your conclusions because they are based upon false premise.

Nuh uh

 

[Trailblazer]

My brain. Where do you get yours?

I know what I believe is true because I got my beliefs from my religion. I did not make them up.

You are free to believe whatever you want to believe but you will never convince me.

I have no desire to argue with you.

 

[ppp]

know what I believe is true because I got my beliefs from my religion. I did not make them up.

Special pleading.

You are free to believe whatever you want to believe but you will never convince me.

Closed mind.

I have no desire to argue with you.

Ciao.