Do you understand the New Testament

[angellous_evangellous]

Im rubber your glue. what you say bounces off of me and sticks you.

Nope, I'm wearing a slicker.

 

[sojourner]

The same type of pastor/minister that taught me when i was growing up and you all are the same.

I seriously doubt this.

And you all fulfill prophecy to a tee:
Mr 13:6 - For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Funny; don't remember ever saying "I am Christ..."

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their worksTherefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

I pray for the people in your congo to wake up.

This is the kind of crap proof-texting produces.
Thank you for displaying Christian love by abusing scriptures, calling my morals, character, motives, and spiritual well-being into question in an attempt to injure and discredit me.
Remember the movie "Carrie?" This post reminds me a whole lot of the character Piper Laurie played.

 

[sojourner]

Was Jesus coerced into sacrificing Himself? No. What does He say "for this reason I have come" and "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

According to you, humanity has no free will. God controls us. Therefore, since you say that Jesus "died, died -- really, really died," and further, since you decry Trinitarianism as "false doctrine," that must mean that you believe Jesus to have been fully, really-truly, indisputably human. Therefore, Jesus had no free will, but was controlled by God. Therefore, God coerced Jesus into laying down his life, making him think that it was of his own accord. so, not only did Jesus not display selfless love, but the Bible is patently wrong by quoting Jesus as saying that he gave his life willingly. Since you say that the Bible is "the Word of God," then God was lying in this case.

Your "book knowledge" has harmed you and not helped.

To the contrary. I think it's your lack of the same in this case that is harmful.

I am not attacking you. Everything you say is just contradictory to the Word.

As you choose to see it.

 

[free spirit]

Here you go - http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/christianity/82099-why-angellous-not-christian.html#post1585684

I have visited your post, and it seems to me that you are at war with yourself and the ecclesiastic community.
there is not need to fill like that, for those who are in error do not know that they are in error, so it is like speaking to a brick wall.
Usually they cannot see reason because sin in their life is strong; it can be any kind of coveting, as in covet for riches, covet for power, covet for sex, covet for recognition, bitterness for a wrong suffered, these things are all self centered emotions.
I believe that those of us who know the truth should not be ashamed to speak it out regardless of the consequences, for why should I follow the political correctness of the times and disregard the righteousness of God which is eternal.
We have a duty to do that without giving offense, but unfortunately the truth cuts to the quick and inadvertently we get a violent response.

 

[sojourner]

I have visited your post, and it seems to me that you are at war with yourself and the ecclesiastic community.
there is not need to fill like that, for those who are in error do not know that they are in error, so it is like speaking to a brick wall.
Usually they cannot see reason because sin in their life is strong; it can be any kind of coveting, as in covet for riches, covet for power, covet for sex, covet for recognition, bitterness for a wrong suffered, these things are all self centered emotions.
I believe that those of us who know the truth should not be ashamed to speak it out regardless of the consequences, for why should I follow the political correctness of the times and disregard the righteousness of God which is eternal.
We have a duty to do that without giving offense, but unfortunately the truth cuts to the quick and inadvertently we get a violent response.

Yeah, we get the "the truth hurts, but we gotta say it, 'cause we're Christians" bull crap all the time. Just because you think you have a corner on the "Biblical truth market" doesn't mean you get to throw your Christian weight around. Apparently, many of you have conveniently forgotten that we're to "speak the truth in love." You should try it. You will attract more bees with honey than with vinegar.

 

[free spirit]

Are you certain that you're in any way qualified, by virtue of information, authroity, or insight, to question my faith? I don't think I've ever raised that question when someone disagrees with me. I might say that your theology is skewed, or that your scholarship is weak, or that your arguments cannot be validated with any level of certainty. But I have never questioned whether someone was "really a Christian."

To be a Christian is to have the mind of Christ, so if we have the same mind we should come to the same conclusion, but we are no were near each other; so one of us is in error or both of us; so which is right?

Are you certain you know that one's Christianity is not determined by what one believes, but by whom one follows?

Yes I follow Christ by applying the two golden rules, love may self, and love my neighbor.

You guys are usually the ones who scream the loudest that "It's not about theology, it's about faith."
Yet, when someone believes differently from you, suddenly they're "not Christian," as if it really is about theology.

Theology is a thesis to put order on the concept of Deity, it contains a lot of speculation, but in Christ there are no speculation. In Christ there is only Love worked by faith.

I'm not sure I could tell you what I beleive, and satisfy you according to your criteria. Or even that I should tell you what I believe, for that matter.

What you believe, and what I believe is unimportant because we will be judged by our degree of holiness nothing else matters.

 

[AK4]

Funny; don't remember ever saying "I am Christ..."

Is this that hard to understand? Many people will come and say Jesus is Christ and still deceive many. its not many will come and say that they are Christ. Now really will that deceive many? So that means many people will come and say Jesus is Christ. they are wolves in sheeps clothings

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, (who calls Jesus Lord? atheists, muslims, jews? NO christains) have we not prophesied in thy name?(whose name?) and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?(even these peoples works fall short) 23 And then will I profess unto them (who is the them? who is the ones who prophesied, cast out devils and did many wonderful works in the name of Jesus? atheists? satanists? muslims? jews? NO CHRISTAINS), I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This is the kind of crap proof-texting produces.
Thank you for displaying Christian love by abusing scriptures, calling my morals, character, motives, and spiritual well-being into question in an attempt to injure and discredit me.

I didnt do any of this. It makes you feel good to say this of me because maybe something i have said or quoted clicked in you

I said this
Quote:
No. I just hate being lied to. And for most of my life and all the different churches and denominations did not teach the full truth of the Word and basically lied and distorted and twisted it and it ****** me off how pastors and preachers who are "supposed" to know what they preach actually preach heresy. They teach these church doctrines and theologians "exesegisises" and traditions that LIE and distort the truth. But knowing Gods plan i dont hold them at fault .

and quoted this

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their worksTherefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

I didnt attack your morals, character, or motives. There are many pastors and ministers and christains everywhere who are compassionate, loving, charitable and all that sweet honey dew stuff but are still deceived. Is this my opinion or is this what Jesus just stated in Matt 7? I dont condemn or judge you or my past pastors/ministers because i realise that its ONLY by the grace of God i couldnt been them--on that thought its only by the grace of God that i am not a Hitler or Saddam Hussein. Do you understand that part of grace? ITS ONLY by the grace of God you didnt grow to be a mass murderer.

Did i attack your spiritual well-being? No not really. I just been giving you something to think about when i show you a scripture. To question if what youve been taught or what you *think* you. If you are convinced you are right, well what can i say---

Question: Do/Can the deceived know they are deceived? Think on that.

 

[bob0007]

:angel2:
Yep I have been here for a fiew days now but I have allready being wounded, it is war out there the ardest of them are the religious devotees, that is not new I guess because only religious devottes will kill a holy man like 2000 years ago.
Well I am Mr. averige nothing special eccept that I understand the New Terstament and that gets me into trouble all the time. Yep they even use my poor spelling to get at me. I am allergic to pain so if it doesn't get to hot I stay.
love you all :cheer:

It might be more relevant to know the foundations of the "New Testament". The canon of the New Testament was determined by Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria, in 365 AD, a member of the Roman Catholic church, who was a major player in the original Council of Nicean, which was convened and headed by the pagan Great King of Rome, Constantine. This council set the dogmas and creeds which are today accepted by all the so called Catholic and Protestants. Keep in mind that the head of the Reformation movement, Luther, described the Catholic church as "Babylon the Great".
As for who wrote the New Testament. Very little is what it seems. Most likely 2 Peter, wasn't written by the Simon barJonas, as is generally thought, and no one knows who wrote Hebrews, the source of the term "New Covenant" (New Testament), although many assume it was Paul. And who was Paul? Paul is but someone who claims to be an apostle, and someone who claims to be a prophet of God, in that what he says is the word of God. Even though Yeshua warns against false prophets, no one seems to heed that warning. He claims to have witnessed an angel of light also, but then again, so did Constantine, Alexander the Great, Mohamid, etc.
As for the New Testament, being the "Word of God", I would direct you to what Yeshua said in Matthew 13:36-42. Whereas the "good seed", sowed by the son of man, is interspersed together with the "bad seed", sowed by the sons of the evil one. The "New Testament", indeed has some of the "good seed", but it also has "bad seed" mixed together with it. The "bad seed" and the "good seed" would remain interspersed until the "end of the age".
As for who Paul is, I would direct you to Zechariah 11, whereas it describes the 3 shepherds, Zech 11:13, being Judas, and the other two shepherds being the "worthless" Peter, who "does not care for, tend, nor feed the flock", (Zech 11:16) and Paul, who is called "Favor", being he is the one who teaches the gospel of Grace, where as you are "saved", by a God's grace, by believing a false gospel, given by a false prophet.
No, the true church is in the wilderness, per Revelations 12, because, the founder of the "Universal Christian Church", (Catholic Church), was Constantine, the beast with the two horns like a lamb, who was to deceive all those who "dwell on the earth", and the two horns like a lamb (Christlike), were none other than the worthless shepherd Peter, and the false prophet Paul. Anyone who didn't believe in the verdicts of the Council of Nicean was dealt with rather harshly. The office of the Inquisition is still headed by the Pope, only the name of the office has changed.
As for what Yeshua said about what to do concerning those who follow Church of Babylon and receive its mark, "he will also drink of the wine of the wrath of God".
And what is the mark? According to the Old Testament, keeping the 10 commandment is the mark of God on your hand and forehead, whereas the mark of the beast will be in keeping the beast's (Constantine's) commandments. In 325 AD, Constantine changed the law and times of God, and prescribed that the day of rest is the "day of the Sun", and anyone who didn't keep that new law could not buy or sell property, or hold public office.
bob

 

[AK4]

According to you, humanity has no free will. God controls us. Therefore, since you say that Jesus "died, died -- really, really died," and further, since you decry Trinitarianism as "false doctrine," that must mean that you believe Jesus to have been fully, really-truly, indisputably human.

Yes He was human. Does It not say that "He emptied Himself"? Was He not sick and diseased and aquainted with pain?

Isaiah
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]53:2 For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, And like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]53:3 He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows (Hebrew says pain[stongs #3510])and acquainted with grief; (Hebrew say sickness [strongs #2470]) And like one from whom men hide their face He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]53:4 Surely our griefs (Hebrew say sickness [strongs #2470]) He Himself bore, And our sorrows (Hebrew says pain[stongs #3510]) He carried;So with that in mind why do you think Jesus says this[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Lu 4:23 - Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Why? Because He healed others so why dont He heal Himself. Oh if you only had the eyes to see.[/FONT]

Therefore, Jesus had no free will, but was controlled by God. Therefore, God coerced Jesus into laying down his life, making him think that it was of his own accord. so, not only did Jesus not display selfless love, but the Bible is patently wrong by quoting Jesus as saying that he gave his life willingly. Since you say that the Bible is "the Word of God," then God was lying in this case

"Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF, but what He sees the Father do: for what things so ever He does, these also does the Son likewise" (John 5:19).

"I can of mine own self DO NOTHING: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the father which has sent Me" (John 5:30).

"For I came down from heaven, not to do Mine Own will, but the will of Him that sent me" (John 6:38).

"Jesus said unto them, My meat is TO DO THE WILL OF HIM THAT SENT ME, and to finish His work" (John 4:34).

Jesus didn’t even speak His own words:

"Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I DO NOTHING OF MYSELF: but as My Father has taught Me, I speak these things" (John 8:28).

Not only did the Father do the speaking through His Son, but He also performed all of the works as well:
"Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you, I speak not of myself, but the Father that dwells in Me, He does the works" (John 14:10).

If Jesus had a "free will," He sure didn’t use it very much:
"He that loves Me not keeps not My sayings: and the word which ye hear is NOT MINE, but the Father’s which sent Me" (John 14:24).

Now with all that in mind was Jesus coerced?
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.(Lu 22:42) -As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.(Joh 10:15) No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.(Joh 10:18)
God the Father and Jesus had/has an esprit de corp. Jesus will became the Fathers will. And it was the Fathers will to

"Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief: When you shall make His soul an offering for sin…" (Isa. 53:10).

Now ask yourself again, was Jesus coerced or willing.

To the contrary. I think it's your lack of the same in this case that is harmful.

If you say so.

As you choose to see it.

Once again i showed you how your words and thoughts contradict the Word.

 

[AK4]

I have visited your post, and it seems to me that you are at war with yourself and the ecclesiastic community.
there is not need to fill like that, for those who are in error do not know that they are in error, so it is like speaking to a brick wall.
Usually they cannot see reason because sin in their life is strong; it can be any kind of coveting, as in covet for riches, covet for power, covet for sex, covet for recognition, bitterness for a wrong suffered, these things are all self centered emotions.
I believe that those of us who know the truth should not be ashamed to speak it out regardless of the consequences, for why should I follow the political correctness of the times and disregard the righteousness of God which is eternal.
We have a duty to do that without giving offense, but unfortunately the truth cuts to the quick and inadvertently we get a violent response.

Frugals!!

 

[blueman]

hi this is abilash. i am from india. i am a hindu i ahev recently read so called bible. to be frank i dont find any thing good in this..... all things i dont belive why do you guys say this is great.... i dont find any thing good in the so called holy book..*edit*

Are you reading the Bible with an open mind and heart? How could you not see any good regarding God's love through Jesus Christ? That is the central truth regarding our purpose in this life. What He did for us is unfathomable.

 

[AK4]

AK4,
It is that you seem to have the time line of resurrection-> judgment wrong, now what make you think that those that see the Lord coming and bow their knees and recognize Jesus the son of man as Lord are those that died in their sins?

What you are not realising is that the when Jesus returns that begins the Day of the Lord. How long is this day? What does day mean? What can it mean? Is the "day" defined by scripture to mean a 24 hour period or is there scriptural proof to show that when day is used by itself it means something else and when God whats to convey a 24 hour period He actually uses day AND night? Hmmmm something to think and study on

I never said exactly when Jesus returns, all will bow. There are still at least two more eons said of in scripture.

• There was time BEFORE the aions (I Cor. 2:7, "BEFORE the eons"). ​
• God MADE the aions (Heb. 1:2, "MAKES the eons"). .​
• There were aions in the PAST (Col. 1:26, "hid FROM eons"). .​
• This PRESENT age is called an aion (Gal. 1:4, "the PRESENT wicked eon"). .​
• This PRESENT age will come to an END (Mat. 24:3, "The END [or conclusion] of the eon"). .​
• There is coming another aion AFTER this present aion (Luke 18:30, "the eon TO COME"). .​
• There are, in fact, coming multiples or FUTURE AIONS (Eph. 2:7, "the ONCOMING AIONS). .​
• Some aions are even contrasted with OTHER AIONS (Eph. 3:21, "the eon OF the eons"). .​
• All aions will come to all their ENDS (I Cor. 10:11, "the CONSUMMATIONS [plural] of the eons [plural]." ​

Mat 25:32

All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides [his] sheep from the goats.​

I place this at a time after the Judgment and those ones worshiping as those in the right side those that are blessed of God to inherit the Kingdom.

How can that be after Judgment when the saints will also do the judging.
Ob 1:21 - And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.
1Co 6:2 - Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?

Who are they judging if Judgment is finished at His coming? And why are they judging these people again if they were already judged at His coming? Theyve already been judged to hell (if that is what you believe or annihilated like JW's believe). And why is there a need for a second judgment

You wrote: Remember everlasting, eternal, eternity is not scriptural.
What!

Gen 9:16
The rainbow shall be in the cloud, and I will look on it to remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that [is] on the earth." ​

"And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting [Heb: olam aionion/eonian] covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth."


Now im pretty sure we agree that Jesus is the last sacrifice for sin right? So lets look at the same word (everlasting-- [Heb: olam aionion/eonian]) and see how everlasting it is.

How long did "EVERLASTING STATUTES" last?
Is the "everlasting statute" regulating the "day of atonement," still in force? "And this shall be an EVERLASTING [olam]<B> statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year&#8230;." (Lev. 16:34). Now compare Rom. 5:11, "And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by Whom we have NOW received THE ATONEMENT."
So what do you suppose happened to that "EVERLASTING statute" regarding atonement for sin?

"But in those sacrifices there is remembrance again made of sins EVERY YEAR </B>[on the day of ATONEMENT]&#8230; Then said He, Lo, I come to do Thy will, O God, He TAKES AWAY THE FIRST [covenant] that He may establish the second [covenant]. By the which will we are sanctified through the OFFERING OF THE BODY OF JESUS CHRIST ONCE [no longer &#8216;once a year&#8217;] FOR ALL" (Heb. 10:4, 9-10).
​

So much for your "everlasting/eternal" statute regulating the annual Day of Atonement. The Levitic Priests, the offering, the temple, the holy of holies is all, gone gone. Now there is ONE atonement for all, offered ONCE and never again. This particular "eternity" lasted less than 1500 years! So just maybe an olam is NOT ETERNAL afterall. What do you think?
The "EVERLASTING [olam]<B> priesthood" of Exodus 40:15. And just how long did this "everlasting priesthood" last?

"If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the PRIESTHOOD BEING CHANGED, there is made of necessity a change also of the law&#8230; For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood" (Heb. 7:11-12, 14).
​

</B>

Theres much more i could do but i have to go for now

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I have visited your post, and it seems to me that you are at war with yourself and the ecclesiastic community.
there is not need to fill like that, for those who are in error do not know that they are in error, so it is like speaking to a brick wall.
Usually they cannot see reason because sin in their life is strong; it can be any kind of coveting, as in covet for riches, covet for power, covet for sex, covet for recognition, bitterness for a wrong suffered, these things are all self centered emotions.
I believe that those of us who know the truth should not be ashamed to speak it out regardless of the consequences, for why should I follow the political correctness of the times and disregard the righteousness of God which is eternal.
We have a duty to do that without giving offense, but unfortunately the truth cuts to the quick and inadvertently we get a violent response.

An instrument that plays only one note and is impossible to tune.

 

[free spirit]

It might be more relevant to know the foundations of the "New Testament".
As for the New Testament, being the "Word of God", I would direct you to what Yeshua said in Matthew 13:36-42. Whereas the "good seed", sowed by the son of man, is interspersed together with the "bad seed", sowed by the sons of the evil one. The "New Testament", indeed has some of the "good seed", but it also has "bad seed" mixed together with it. The "bad seed" and the "good seed" would remain interspersed until the "end of the age".

Yes Bob, what you say is true, but you have not considered that our Lord has not left us alone, for he has send his spirit to be with us, to lead us into all truth, we have only to tune our hears to what he is saying. I believe like you that the new testament is full of stumbling blocks put there by the enemy of Christ; so we have to "rightly divide the word" and when you can do that you will feel like a prospector who finds gold among the dirt of the earth.

In the so-called Christian world we all acknowledge that God has inspired all of the books and letters, contained in the New Testament. Despite this fact we are seeing them printed in this modern era in a paraphrase form, or using different words just to obtain copyrights; thereby causing the Scriptures to lose its potency of enlightenment. In addition to that in some bibles, important words like &#8220;Repentance&#8221; have been translated &#8220;Penance&#8221;. But even adding a single letter can change the meaning of a sentence, like; &#8220;And the word was God&#8221; changed into &#8220;And the word was a God&#8221;.

It is undeniable therefore that some of today&#8217;s denominations translate words and sentences contrary to God&#8217;s intended meaning, willingly bending God&#8217;s word into agreeing with their own doctrine, but some due to their faith in the sacredness of the Scriptures, are unwilling to even change obvious errors and inconsistencies. And, when they do not understand some part of it, they simply ignore it, as if that part of the word of God is not longer relevant or applicable.

While we know that some of today&#8217;s denominations have made some changes to suit their own doctrine, we all ignore the forewarnings of earlier and more serious alterations. Jesus himself warned us many times that deceivers were going to come, the Apostles also testified in the scriptures from the very beginning of Christianity, that deceivers were working hard to adulterate the message of truth.

The following scriptures are reliable testimony of the existence of stumbling blocks for in Matthew 13 &#8211; 24 &#8211; 25, Jesus said, &#8220;He presented another parable to them, saying. The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares also among the wheat, and went away.&#8221; And in Matthew 18 &#8211; 7, again Jesus said, &#8220;Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!&#8221;

Also 2nd Peter 3 &#8211; 16, strongly warned us by saying, &#8220;As also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also to the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.&#8221; Again 2nd Peter 2 &#8211; 1 &#8211; 2, is very specific by saying, &#8220;But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned.&#8221;

Also the apostle Paul testify about the future teaching of untruth, for we read in 2nd Timothy 4 &#8211; 3 &#8211; 4, &#8220;For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.&#8221;

By these reliable and undeniable testimonies, I am fully convinced that early in the Christian era the inspired Holy Word of God was contaminated by the word of man, making many parts of the New Testament open to speculations, which create anomalies and ambiguities, which work against the knowledge of God.

(IV) And in Galatians 3 &#8211; 13, I have found other lies about my Lord and about his accomplished works, for it reads: &#8220;Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us, for it is written: Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree.&#8221;
It is ludicrous to say that he redeemed us from the curse of the law, by allowing himself to become a curse for us, just by dying while hanging on a tree.
Therefore, before we go any further it is important for us to understand that the tree is only a tool to administer death to a condemned man, and we must sorely know, that it is the sins that the man has committed that makes him accursed, and not the way he dies. That is why the law became a curse for us, because we could not keep it, and consequently we merited death because of our transgressions; and not because the law in itself was bad. (So, death is not a curse, but it&#8217;s the consequence of sin.) He came to fulfill the law for us. And by fulfilling the law he absorbed the law in himself, therefore he became a blessing for us, because he freed us from the curse of the law written on tablets of stone, having replaced them with the law of the spirit of himself. (The Holy Spirit.) I am fully convinced that it is correct for the above verse of Galatians 3 &#8211; 13, to read: &#8220;Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having fulfilled the law for us.

We all know that our Lord became flesh for us and consequently he was made sin, because the flesh and sin is one and the same. Also our Lord, (who is a type of Adam,) took us faithfuls in himself on the cross, he also took the sin of the whole world on the cross for the justification of all humanity, as he fulfilled the law by being obedient even to death. But none of the above is a curse in itself, I repeat; the law became a curse because we could not keep it, and not because it was bad. And by doing all of the above he became a blessing for all those who believe and obey him.

We would certainly and clearly see the error if we read Deuteronomy 21 &#8211; 23, in context with verse 22, we will then discover that part of verse 23 doesn't&#8217;t apply to our Lord, for we read, &#8220;And if a man has committed a sin worthy of death, and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God), so that you do not defile your land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance.&#8221; So you see the underlined scripture of verse 23 doesn't&#8217;t apply to our Lord, because our Lord did not commit a sin worthy of death, in fact he was sinless, regardless of how he appeared to those that witness, or condemned him to death. (Yes! He was made sin but never committed sin, isn&#8217;t that something that we should rejoice about? For by doing that, Jesus stripped sin of the power of the law.)

Furthermore the testimony of 1st Corinthians 12 &#8211; 3, reinforces that he didn&#8217;t become accursed for we read, &#8220;That no one speaking by the spirit of God says, Jesus is accursed.&#8221; So with those indisputable proofs in hand, we should only come to one obvious conclusion; that the Scriptures suggesting that our blessed Lord become a curse for us, is nothing but a &#8220;blasphemous diversion&#8221; working against the knowledge of the accomplished works of our Lord.

If you are not yet convinced, I would suggest to you, to insert the corrected verse in Galatians 3 &#8211; 13, and judge it in context and you will see that the whole chapter, and indeed all of Galatians, is explaining to us how the curse of the law has been replaced by having faith in the grace of Christ, who paid the price for us by enduring the brutal sufferings of the cross and yet died sinless, and thus fulfilled the law for us, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith in him. (Read 1st Corinthians 15 &#8211; 55 to 57, and you will see that death and sin are defeated by the fulfillment of the law, and not by dying hanging on a tree. Read Romans 5 &#8211; 17 to 21, and you will also see that through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through the total obedience of the law of one man resulted justification of life to all men.)

It is vital that all believers understand the book of Galatians, which explains, faith in the grace of Christ, in contrast to the works of the law. Satan knows that, and so he uses all means in order to defend the written ambiguity, which clearly denigrates the character of our God, the accomplished works of our Lord, and the character and epistles of his apostles. read post 402 to continue

 

[sojourner]

To be a Christian is to have the mind of Christ, so if we have the same mind we should come to the same conclusion, but we are no were near each other; so one of us is in error or both of us; so which is right?

Who told you that "having the mind of Christ" has anything to do with coming to the same cognitive conclusions? BTW, the Bible doesn't say that we have the mind of Christ. It says, "Let the same mind be in you, which was also in Christ..." Read on for yourself to find out exactly what that means.

Theology is a thesis to put order on the concept of Deity, it contains a lot of speculation, but in Christ there are no speculation. In Christ there is only Love worked by faith.

"Theology is what we use to understand the concept of God. That tool is speculative. Christ came that we might know God. but in Christ there is no speculation." Are you saying that, true Christians have no need of theology? That, in itself is a theological statement.

What you believe, and what I believe is unimportant because we will be judged by our degree of holiness nothing else matters.

That's what I've been trying to get across to you: That it's not about what we believe, but whom we follow.

 

[sojourner]

Is this that hard to understand? Many people will come and say Jesus is Christ and still deceive many. its not many will come and say that they are Christ. Now really will that deceive many? So that means many people will come and say Jesus is Christ. they are wolves in sheeps clothings

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, (who calls Jesus Lord? atheists, muslims, jews? NO christains) have we not prophesied in thy name?(whose name?) and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?(even these peoples works fall short) 23 And then will I profess unto them (who is the them? who is the ones who prophesied, cast out devils and did many wonderful works in the name of Jesus? atheists? satanists? muslims? jews? NO CHRISTAINS), I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.




I didnt do any of this. It makes you feel good to say this of me because maybe something i have said or quoted clicked in you

I said this
Quote:
No. I just hate being lied to. And for most of my life and all the different churches and denominations did not teach the full truth of the Word and basically lied and distorted and twisted it and it ****** me off how pastors and preachers who are "supposed" to know what they preach actually preach heresy. They teach these church doctrines and theologians "exesegisises" and traditions that LIE and distort the truth. But knowing Gods plan i dont hold them at fault .

and quoted this



I didnt attack your morals, character, or motives. There are many pastors and ministers and christains everywhere who are compassionate, loving, charitable and all that sweet honey dew stuff but are still deceived. Is this my opinion or is this what Jesus just stated in Matt 7? I dont condemn or judge you or my past pastors/ministers because i realise that its ONLY by the grace of God i couldnt been them--on that thought its only by the grace of God that i am not a Hitler or Saddam Hussein. Do you understand that part of grace? ITS ONLY by the grace of God you didnt grow to be a mass murderer.

Did i attack your spiritual well-being? No not really. I just been giving you something to think about when i show you a scripture. To question if what youve been taught or what you *think* you. If you are convinced you are right, well what can i say---

Question: Do/Can the deceived know they are deceived? Think on that.

Don't trust people much, do you.

 

[sojourner]

Now ask yourself again, was Jesus coerced or willing.

According to you, not coerced, not willing, but forced. Which completely negates the whole self-sacrifice in love concept. Your version is closer to religious magic.

 

[sojourner]

Once again i showed you how your words and thoughts contradict the Word.

You haven't shown a thing except your own ignorance.

 

[sojourner]

An instrument that plays only one note and is impossible to tune.

Monotonous, irrelevant and irritating, all at once! Kind of like Tinnitis...

 

[free spirit]

Who told you that "having the mind of Christ" has anything to do with coming to the same cognitive conclusions? BTW, the Bible doesn't say that we have the mind of Christ. It says, "Let the same mind be in you, which was also in Christ..." Read on for yourself to find out exactly what that means.

1 Corinthians 2: 15 - 16, "But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man. For who has known the mind of the Lord that he should instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."
However "be of the same mind" Or "have the mind of Christ" it's practically the same.

"Theology is what we use to understand the concept of God. That tool is speculative. Christ came that we might know God. but in Christ there is no speculation." Are you saying that, true Christians have no need of theology? That, in itself is a theological statement.

Well we are in agreement.:clap

That's what I've been trying to get across to you: That it's not about what we believe, but whom we follow.

More to the point (who we are)