Do you understand the New Testament

[free spirit]

An instrument that plays only one note and is impossible to tune.

You are correct, I mean that sincerely, because there is one Lord, one baptism, one call of our call, so we can only play one tune at a time, but all together it is an orchestra that is actually plying, but do you have the ears to appreciate the music.

 

[free spirit]

To Bob0007


Yes Bob here is another example that causes so much misunderstanding of the New Testament.

(VI) The following example will demonstrate to you, that inbuilt sequential confusion is also present in the Scriptures: In John 20 – 23, we read: “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
This commission that the Lord has given to the disciples is exercised by the Catholic, the Orthodox Church and a few others denominations, but most of them do not do that. Maybe these denominations do not forgive sins, because of the lack of demonstrating example in the epistles. We all know that we have to forgive those that sin against us, the Lord’s Prayer is very clear on the matter. But who forgives those that sin against their own conscience and the body of Christ?

I am certain that in 2nd Corinthians between chapter 1 – 16, and chapter 2 – 11, there is an hidden example of the administration of this important sacrament, ministered by Paul to the Corinthians, the problem in recognising it as such, lays in the undeniable fact that part of the explanation of this sacrament has been moved from its original place, so that its significant content would appear to be directed at something else. I pray you therefore, to follow me with patience, and I am certain you will see.

If we read 2nd Corinthians 1 – 16, followed by verse 23, we realise that those verses are united by the line of thought of the subject (the visit) that Paul is clarifying to them. And this line of thought continues slowly changing into another subject, but it is uninterrupted till chapter 2 – 11. And if then we go back to chapter 1 – 17, and read until verse 22 we again find that the line of thought of Paul and the new subject (forgiven sin,) also continues uninterrupted and Paul’s ministry becomes clear also. Arranging these scriptures in that order the truth will become obvious, for these last six verses (17 to 22) are not united to the promise of Paul to visit them, but they are united to the promise of God to forgive sins through the anointed disciples.
The verses in question have been written below in the explained above order.

We read in 2nd Corinthians 1 – 16, “That is to pass your way into Macedonia, and again from Macedonia to come to you, and by you to be helped on my journey to Judea.
1 – 23. But I call God as witness to my soul, that to spare you I come no more to Corinth. Not that we lord it over your faith, but are workers with you for your joy; for in your faith you are standing firm. But I determine this for my own sake that I would not come to you in sorrow again. For if I cause you sorrow, who then makes me glad but the one whom I made sorrowful? And this is the very thing I wrote you, lest, when I come, I should have sorrow from those who ought to make me rejoice; having confidence in you all, that my joy would be the joy of you all. For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote to you with many tears; not that you should be made sorrowful, but that you might know the love which I have especially for you. But if any has caused sorrow, he has caused sorrow not to me, but in some degree in order not to say too much to all of you. Sufficient for such a one is this punishment, which was inflicted by the majority, so that on the contrary you should rather forgive and comfort him, lest somehow such a one be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. Wherefore I urge you to reaffirm your love for him. For to this end also I wrote that I might put you to the test, whether you are obedient in all things. But whom you forgive anything, I forgive also; for indeed what I have forgiven, I did it for your sakes in the presence of Christ, in order that no advantage be taken of us by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his schemes.
1 – 17. Therefore, I was not vacillating when I intended to do this, was I? Or that which I purpose, do I purpose according to the flesh, that with me there should be yes, yes and no, no at the same time? But as God is faithful, our word to you is not yes and no. For the son of God, Christ Jesus, who was preached among you by us, by me and Silvanus and Timothy, was not yes and no, but is yes in him. For as many as may be the promises of God, in him they are yes; wherefore also by him is our Amen to the glory of God through us. Now he who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.”

As you can see, these last six verses are too deep in significance to be addressing a simple promise of Paul to visit them. But, in this last six verses Paul is declaring to them that his forgiveness is solid, because it is not according to the flesh, but the yes resided on the promise of God, and like all other promises the yes are in Christ. And his authority to forgive sins is a gift of an anointing from God.

Bob the New Testament has in it the good seed, and as you say it also has the bad seed, so all we have to do is learn the difference that exists between them. It is like the ability to distinguish legal tender from the counterfeits ones.

 

[emiliano]

To AK4,
Should I take this as meaning that God will not keep his covenant with Abraham? I remind you that Jesus mission was to saved the House of Israel has He all but given up on them? God breaking His promise? I believe that the covenant to the Israelites still stands because it was an everlasting one but it refers to the promised of the promise of the land and that Jesus preached a promise for a spiritual Kingdom and that is kingdom to which many are going to have entry to.

Gen 12:1
Now the LORD had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you.
Gen 13:12
Abram dwelt in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelt in the cities of the plain and pitched [his] tent even as far as Sodom.
Gen 13:15
for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants [fn] forever.​

This is not the kingdom of our hope is it? The kingdom of our hope is the kingdom that Jesus preached about, the kingdom that many (not all) will obtain though the new covenant.

Mat 26:28
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mar 14:24
And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many. ​

In His ministry the lord never said anything even likely to what Paul said:

Hbr 8:13
In that He says, "A new [covenant]," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. ​

But there is revelation on what he wrote to the Corinthians

2Cr 3:6
who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. ​

The Kingdom of God is spiritual the kingdom what Moses preached is the land of Canaan, a physical land, thus a thing that is not eternal because everything that is physical/material corrupts/decays and vanish away.

 

[free spirit]

To AK4,

Should I take this as meaning that God will not keep his covenant with Abraham? I remind you that Jesus mission was to saved the House of Israel has He all but given up on them? God breaking His promise? I believe that the covenant to the Israelites still stands because it was an everlasting one but it refers to the promised of the promise of the land and that Jesus preached a promise for a spiritual Kingdom and that is kingdom to which many are going to have entry to.

Gen 12:1
Now the LORD had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you.
Gen 13:12
Abram dwelt in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelt in the cities of the plain and pitched [his] tent even as far as Sodom.
Gen 13:15
for all the land which you see I give to you and your descendants [fn] forever.​

To understand the scriptures we must realize that they are telling a story made easy to remember trough metaphors, the land in this case is not a piece of real estate, for if it was a piece of real estate then God has failed to deliver the promise. In reality the promise of the land is the gift of the Holy Spirit which make us dwell in the grace of God, therefore; (Dwell in the promise land, and dwell in the grace of God is one and the same) we read in acts 3: 22 - 23, "Moses said the Lord God shall raise up for you a prophet like me from your brethren; to him you shall give heed in everything he says to you. And it shall be that every soul that does not heed that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people." so according to what Moses said that is their final choice. many Jews did accept Jesus as Lord but others did not, therefore they are considered unbelievers and regarded outside the grace of God. even today their descendants are preoccupied by the possession of a parcel of land, they have discarded Gold and kept the earth not a wise choice.

This is not the kingdom of our hope is it? The kingdom of our hope is the kingdom that Jesus preached about, the kingdom that many (not all) will obtain though the new covenant.

Mat 26:28
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mar 14:24
And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many. ​

In His ministry the lord never said anything even likely to what Paul said:

Hbr 8:13
In that He says, "A new [covenant]," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. ​

But there is revelation on what he wrote to the Corinthians

2Cr 3:6
who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. ​

The Kingdom of God is spiritual the kingdom what Moses preached is the land of Canaan, a physical land, thus a thing that is not eternal because everything that is physical/material corrupts/decays and vanish away.

We must understand the new covenant for it to be effective in our lives here is what I understand it means.
THE NEW COVENANT



We celebrate the Lord’s Supper to remember that the Lord died for our sins, making the partaking of the elements “the bread and the wine” very special for all Christians.
But we should also celebrate the supper as the introduction of the new covenant. For we read in Luke 22 – 19 – 20: “And when he had taken some bread and given thanks, he broke it, and gave it to them, saying. This is my body, which is given for you; do this in remembrance of me. And in the same way he took the cup after they had eaten, saying, this cup which is poured out for you isthe new covenant in my blood.”

What does this new covenant in his blood mean?

This new covenant was foretold through the prophet Jeremiah. However, we will read it from Hebrews 8 – 7 to 13: “For if the first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. For finding fault with them he says, behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will effect a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they did not continue in my covenant, and I did not care for them, says the Lord.”

“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their minds, and I will write them upon their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen, and everyone his brother, saying, know the Lord, for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.” When he said, a new covenant, he has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

The main feature of this new covenant describe by the above scripture is that it will be internalized, in other words it will be made part of our character. What we need to know is the mechanism through which the law, or character of God will be internalized in our conscience. We will find the answer in the following scriptures; for in John 6 – 53 to 64, we read: “Jesus therefore said to them. Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living father sent (is in) me, and I live because of the father, so he who eats me, he also shall live because of me (in him.) This is the bread, which came down out of heaven; not as the father ate, and died, he who eats this bread shall live forever. These things he said in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.”

Therefore, many of his disciples, when they heard this said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?” But Jesus, conscious that his disciples grumbled at this, said to them. “Does this cause you to stumble? What then if you should behold the son of man ascending where he was before? It is the spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. But there are some of you who do not believe (understand.)”

For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe (understand,) and who it was that would betray Him. And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to me, unless it has been granted him (to understand) from the Father.”



To continue read post 405

 

[free spirit]

To Emiliano
from post 404

Those who truly heard what he said understood and believed that unpalatable statement, for we read in John 8 – 31 to 36: “Jesus therefore was saying to those Jews who had believed him, If you abide in my words, then you are truly disciples of mine; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” They answered him, we are Abraham’s offspring, and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how it is that you say, you shall become free?” Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. And the slave does not remain in the house forever, the son does remain forever. If therefore the son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.”

The Apostle Paul using plain language explain to us the sins that we should be free from, for we read in 1st Corinthians 6 – 9 to 11: “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.”

If you are still struggling to understand the intended meaning of the Lord’s Supper, the following explanation should clear all misunderstandings. Now we all know that the food that we eat goes in the stomach and is digested to provide the nourishment, strength and life to our physical body.

Even so, the word of God that we eat, swallow, or believe becomes nourishment in shaping our character, having become part of the life of our conscience; consequently we live our life according to the words that our soul has eaten, swallowed, or believed. Even in our every day life when we hear a far-fetched story we use the expression that says, “Do you expect me to swallow that?” So, eat, swallow, believe, are all saying the same thing.

Let us remember that we should, eat, swallow, or believe the Word of God to gain its wisdom, without neglecting to live the life that the word suggests, in other words repent; for if we have all the mental wisdom of the word but do not repent, that wisdom has become useless. We read in James 1 – 22 to 24: “But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer; he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was.” That is to say, he returns to live through his natural fleshly self, at best deluding himself in the ambiguousness of religion.

We should also be aware, that the new covenant contains serious ramifications for those that have been enlightened,for we read in Hebrews 10 – 26 – 29: “For if we go on sinning wilfully after receiving the knowledgeof the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversary. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood (life) of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the spirit of grace.”

Hence, after eating the bread (word) of the Lord to gain its wisdom, we must also drink the cup (blood) of the Lord. Because drinking from the cup of the Lord means to live the life of the Lord. Jesus was also made to drink from a cup, for we read in Luke 22 – 42: “Father, if thou art willing, remove this cup from me; yet not my will, but thine be done.”

It is obvious that to fully understand the parables one must dig beyond the face value of the message, because if we have the light of Godliness, the spirit will give us understanding while we meditate on the word that has been written, as the following scripture will clearly demonstrate, for we read in 1st Corinthians 10 – 14 to 17:
“Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry. I speak as to wise men; you judge what I say. Is not the cup of blessing, which we bless (partake) a sharing in the blood (life) of Christ? Is not the bread, which we break a sharing in the body (word) of Christ? Since there is one bread (Word) we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one bread (word)”.

The inserted Italic words in the above scriptures make scripture easier to understand, because as you can see the scripture is only describing normal human behaviour when people partake of the same things. In other words, those who share the same beliefs are naturally drawn together to form a body of people with one common purpose in mind. Like a political party that has a written constitution highlighting the common goals and aspirations of that party. The Jews have the Old Testament; the Muslims have the Koran that holds them together; the Buddhists have some other book, and so on and so forth. But Christians who are growing, and are living Christ’s life are a beacon of light for all, because we have the bread of life. (The Word of God)

Therefore we should feast on the Word of God by breaking it into small pieces to facilitate the digestion process, and at the same time share the revelations of the word with our brothers to extract all wisdom that it contains, but most of all we should drink the life of Christ by obeying his word, doing good works, through which at the appointed time God will reveal his son in us.

And with that heavenly hope in mind let us assemble to eat and drink together the symbols of the word “body” and the life “blood” of our God.

Glory to God

 

[emiliano]

To Free Spirit, first of all I like to thank you for your post and the time that you spent on it, I’ll have to read it more than once, from first reading of it I like to read Jeremiah chapter 31. Verse 1 that present the most troubles:

Jer 31:1
"At the same time," says the LORD, "I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be My people." ​

Then a series of promises are made to the House of Israel and their position in God are reaffirmed “"Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.

Jer 31:7
For thus says the LORD: "Sing with gladness for Jacob, And shout among the chief of the nations; Proclaim, give praise, and say, 'O LORD, save Your people, The remnant of Israel!'
Jer 31:10
"Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, And declare [it] in the isles afar off, and say, 'He who scattered Israel will gather him, And keep him as a shepherd [does] his flock.'
Jer 31:14
I will satiate the soul of the priests with abundance, And My people shall be satisfied with My goodness, says the LORD."
Jer 31:17
There is hope in your future, says the LORD, That [your] children shall come back to their own border.​

Then it goes on to announce chastisement for them (the house of Israel) followed by promises

Jer 31:33
But this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. ​

Followed by more promises “I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Jer 31:36
"If those ordinances depart From before Me, says the LORD, [Then] the seed of Israel shall also cease From being a nation before Me forever." ​

Have they done this? What make you think that they did?

 

[AK4]

According to you, not coerced, not willing, but forced. Which completely negates the whole self-sacrifice in love concept. Your version is closer to religious magic.

Or could it be that the Father put it in the heart of Jesus to will to want to be a sacrifice for sin.

 

[free spirit]

To Free Spirit, first of all I like to thank you for your post and the time that you spent on it, I’ll have to read it more than once, from first reading of it I like to read Jeremiah chapter 31. Verse 1 that present the most troubles:

Jer 31:1
"At the same time," says the LORD, "I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be My people." ​

Then a series of promises are made to the House of Israel and their position in God are reaffirmed “"Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.

Jer 31:7
For thus says the LORD: "Sing with gladness for Jacob, And shout among the chief of the nations; Proclaim, give praise, and say, 'O LORD, save Your people, The remnant of Israel!'
Jer 31:10
"Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, And declare [it] in the isles afar off, and say, 'He who scattered Israel will gather him, And keep him as a shepherd [does] his flock.'
Jer 31:14
I will satiate the soul of the priests with abundance, And My people shall be satisfied with My goodness, says the LORD."
Jer 31:17
There is hope in your future, says the LORD, That [your] children shall come back to their own border.​

Then it goes on to announce chastisement for them (the house of Israel) followed by promises

Jer 31:33
But this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. ​

Followed by more promises “I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Jer 31:36
"If those ordinances depart From before Me, says the LORD, [Then] the seed of Israel shall also cease From being a nation before Me forever." ​

Have they done this? What make you think that they did?

With The coming of our Saviour came the end of an era, and the beginning of a new era. There is to say the sacrificial atonements were superseded by his personal sacrifice, the Laws of Moses were internalized in our minds. it is perfect because no one in the entire world can say I did not know what God required of me.
The Jews of today are descendent's of those Jews that rejected Jesus as the Lord, they are the branches that were cut from the rich olive tree. The can be grafted back into the olive tree if they repent and accept the Lord as their Redeemer.
Romans 11: 3 to 5, we read, "Lord, they have killed thy prophets, they have torn down thine alters, and I alone am left, and they are seeking my life." but what is the divine response to him? "I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to ball." In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice." As you can see Paul speaks of a remnant back then, I am certain that if any of them decides to convert he will be welcomed with open harms, for God loves a repenting sinner. A remnant means just that the last group; so now they are just another religion.
We should know that they were chosen to fulfil a task, and this task is explained in the book of ACTS 3 – 22 – 23: “Moses said the Lord God shall raise up for you a prophet like me from your brethren; to him you shall give heed in everything he says to you. And it shall be that every soul that does not heed that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”So we now know that the purpose they were chosen was for the privilege of bringing Christ into the world, which is a great privilege in any language.

But having fulfilled that privileged task they are no longer chosen, for the purpose is no longer there. Verse 23 that is mentioned above is final as far as God is concerned because it says. “And it shall be that every soul that does not heed that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

Consequently now there is a new task and purpose for the new chosen people, for we read in 1st Peter 2 – 9 – 10: “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.”

Obviously the new chosen people are the believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, who have received his spirit in their heart. It is confirmed in Romans 2 – 28 – 29: “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.” The Holy Spirit filled Christians can see from the above scriptures, that we are the new chosen people, and according to the above scripture we are also the spiritual Jews.

Most of the present day fleshly Jews can be excused for their error, because they do not understand or believe all the scriptures, but we the followers of Christ and believers of the New Testament; should recognise them for what they really are, especially when we read in Romans 9 – 6 to 13: “But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel, neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but through Isaac your descendants will be named. That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.”----------- And verse 13 says, “Just as it is written, Jacob I loved but ESAU I hated.”

Please ask yourself, is Esau a descendent of Abraham? And if he is, why does God say that about him. Obviously Esau is not the apple of God’s eye, even if he is the twin brother of Jacob. The problem is that most of us cannot distinguish the differences in the attitude of the two children of Isaac. So let me explain to you that the present day Jews who do not believe in the Lord Jesus are children of the flesh as Esau was, and unfortunately we read that God is not very pleased with them, unless they convert and believe in the life of our Lord Jesus, in order to be saved from eternal death, Just as all the rest of the unregenerate believers have to do. For it is not enough to believe in the existence of God, without doing also the works of repentance, as you know the Devil also believes in the existence of God.

 

[emiliano]

Free Spirit,
Thank again, but the promise of the internalization that you said was for the House of Israel and God says “I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people” They were chosen for more than just bringing the Savior, they were chosen to be God’s people (those the believe in his name) so we (gentiles) as well as them are saved trough faith (by believing what he said, his name). I’ll keep at it till I get it. Thanks.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

You are correct, I mean that sincerely, because there is one Lord, one baptism, one call of our call, so we can only play one tune at a time, but all together it is an orchestra that is actually plying, but do you have the ears to appreciate the music.

This is the worst thread in the history of RF.

And I mean that sincerely.

 

[AK4]

To AK4,
Should I take this as meaning that God will not keep his covenant with Abraham? I remind you that Jesus mission was to saved the House of Israel has He all but given up on them? God breaking His promise? I believe that the covenant to the Israelites still stands because it was an everlasting one but it refers to the promised of the promise of the land and that Jesus preached a promise for a spiritual Kingdom and that is kingdom to which many are going to have entry to.

No, He will keep His covenant. Abraham is the father of those who believe. Thats gentiles and israelites right? You are a israelite or "jew" if you believe. It says "all israel will be saved". So there you have it. Throughout the OT God says He will save His people and His people is anyone who believes, which is accredited to them as righteousness so

Isa 26:9 - for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

No broken promise there. Besides look at what you say "I believe that the covenant to the Israelites still stands because it was an everlasting one" , yet God says countless times He will save His people (and you state it is the House of Isreal). Now of this "house" is He only saving those who are in the living room (no pun intended) or how about the kitchen? Or is He going to save the whole house?

This is not the kingdom of our hope is it? The kingdom of our hope is the kingdom that Jesus preached about, the kingdom that many (not all) will obtain though the new covenant.

Okay lets get technical. The new covenant was addressed to the house of israel and judah, not the gentiles.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

In His ministry the lord never said anything even likely to what Paul said:

Hbr 8:13
In that He says, "A new [covenant]," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. ​

Oh really? Was it not the Lord who said this

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;

Sounds the same to me.

But there is revelation on what he wrote to the Corinthians

2Cr 3:6
who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. ​

The Kingdom of God is spiritual the kingdom what Moses preached is the land of Canaan, a physical land, thus a thing that is not eternal because everything that is physical/material corrupts/decays and vanish away.

Everything in the OT is type, a shadow of the true. What happen to the israelites and judah is a type, a shadow for everyone. The rebukes and conforting (like the book of Psalms) that God said/did to them are to everyone. It was all a type, a shadow. The prophecies about them are for everyone.

i will leave it there for now.

 

[AK4]

Hey Emiliano (and probably sojourner)

Here is some notes from my friend that i think you might find interesting

In Revelation 20:10, we find this phrase in the King James Bible:

"...and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever"

Probably many TENS OF THOUSANDS of scholars, translators, and men of the cloth skilled in "hermeneutics" have looked and read this phrase from the King James, and found it to stand the test of time and scrutiny, to remain as it was originally stated four hundred years ago.

Let's look at that phrase once again, not through the eyes of AWESOME (to be worshipped) "RELIGIOUS SCHOLARS," but through the eyes of a "roofer."

Tis true: I don't know a lick of Hebrew or Greek, and struggle horribly with the English language, but bear with me for a few moments:

Here is what this phrase "ever and ever" looks like in the Greek when in English, word for word, and then with the word for word English translation underneath each Greek word:

"tous aionas ton aionon"
the eons of the eons

[1] The article "the" (tous) has been completely LEFT OUT in the King James!

[2] The NOUN "eons" or "ages" (aionas) has been changed to an ADJECTIVE, "ever."

[3] The PLURAL noun "eons" has been changed to the SINGULAR adjective "ever."

[4] The GENITIVE "of" has been changed into the CONJUNCTION, "and."

[5] The NOUN :"eons" (aionon) has once more been changed to an ADJECTIVE, "ever."

Three little words, "ever and ever" has been a hermeneutical NIGHTMARE! It has spawned visions of billions and billions of defenseless humans WRITHING IN UNSPEAKABLE TORTURE BY FIRE FOR ALL ETERNITY, and supposedly perpetrated by the god that should be WORSHIPED for such crimes.

But what are the facts? Here are the facts ... Three little words:

FIVE UNSPEAKABLE CRIMES AGAINST ALL KNOWN RULES OF LANGUAGE, GRAMMAR, AND TRANSLATION!!!

And that ends our lesson in "Christian Hermeneutics" for the day, boys and girls.

 

[free spirit]

Free Spirit,
Thank again, but the promise of the internalization that you said was for the House of Israel and God says “I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people” They were chosen for more than just bringing the Savior, they were chosen to be God’s people (those the believe in his name) so we (gentiles) as well as them are saved trough faith (by believing what he said, his name). I’ll keep at it till I get it. Thanks.

Yes by having a special task they become a special people to God, but when God speaks He is not only speaking to them he is peaking to all the good people of the world, for God show no partiality. We read in Romans 2: 6 to 11, "Who will render to every man according to his deeds; to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. there will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of th Greek. but glory and honor and peace to every man who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God."
God Is the God of everyone, and whomever does good is welcome to him, The Jews were special because of the special task that was given to them, all the other blessing that they got were the by products from their special task. Again verses 25 and 26 makes clear that they were in a way special but they still had to do the right thing for we read "For indeed circumcision is of value, if you practice the law; but if you are a transgressor of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. If therefore the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?"
Another clear example is found in the story of Cain and Abel who were also brothers and they both believed in God, but Cain’s fleshly attitude did not find favour with God even before he killed Abel. Similarly to that, have we forgotten that in the beginning of Christianity the fleshly Jews following in the footsteps of Cain and persecuted those who were of the Spirit, and stirred up the pagans to do the same? We must strengthen our spiritual discernment to distinguish that those Jews and pagans who persecuted the Christians in the beginning; did not believe in Jesus, but believed in God through the flesh and not through the spirit. Therefore their fleshly brutal attitude makes them the obvious children of Esau and or Cain.

Many Christians also give a great deal of importance to the alleged future in Romans 11 – 26 – 27, which read: “And thus all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, the deliverer will come from Zion, he will remove ungodliness from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them, when I take away their sins.”

They mistakenly believe that the above scripture of forgiving sins has yet to take place, they do not realise that the scripture belongs to the Old Testament and has been fulfilled with the crucifixion of our Lord, for his sacrifice to forgive the sins of the world was once, and for all men. Or do they think that Jesus has to come back and sacrifice himself once more especially for the sins of the “Jews?” Or do they think that the blessing of Calvary, which flows to all men, was withheld from reaching the “Jews?” They also fail to understand that the removal of ungodliness as is written above is for Jacob, (the believer and appreciatorof the blessing) and not for Esau, (the believer in God but depreciatorof the blessing.)

Also Romans chapter 11 speaks about the Israel of God as the olive tree, and those who did not believe were cut off from the olive tree, and we that believe were grafted into the olive tree, but sadly there are some Christians who mistakenly believe, that the branches that were cut off from the olive tree, have somehow become the tree again. But this is impossible to take place without first believing in Christ, because only with that acknowledgement and repentance Jesus will be able to graft them back again into the rich olive tree. The olive tree “as if you do not know” is Christ himself. For it is written, “I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from me you can do nothing.” Christians should preach to the “Jews” about the Lord, and tell them that the promise land is found in Christ. Galatians 3 – 16, makes it clearer still, for we read: “Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, and to seeds, as referring to many, but rather to one. And to your seed that is Christ.” Ask yourself also why after four thousand years the “Jews” are still fighting for a piece of real estate to call their own?

Despite the overwhelming evidences to the contrary, the fundamentalists Jews and Christians alike passionately believe that God gave that land to the Jews: they of all people need to consider that more then four thousand years have past since the promise was made. In view of that length of time they should wisely come to one of these three simple conclusions, first that God never made such a promise, second that God is so week that he cannot keep his promise, third that God never mente the promise to be a piece of real estate. In the following lines there are some compelling reasons to convince those who are spiritually wise to consider that the third option is the correct one. Firstly because if God so wished, he could have given that land to the Jews by simply prospering his people on that land, without resorting to a conquering armed campaign of death and destruction. Secondly God-fearing people know that death and destruction are the Devil’s tools of trade. Therefore, it is obvious that God never meant the “Promised Land” to be a piece of real estate where generations of Jews and non-Jews are still fighting over. Besides, all Holy Spirit filled people have been made aware in the spirit, that the real “Promise Land” is locate in the heart of each individual, and has to be conquered by our personal spiritual battles of repentance. Yes, it is true, that the spiritual conquest of our heart should reflect the brutality of the flesh, for our spiritual struggle of repentance requires that no quarter be given, for all evil occupying the believer’s heart has to die. For it is written in 1 Peter 1 – 16, “you shall be holy, for I am holy.” Another clear illustration of God’s spiritual meaning of the “Promise Land” is found in God’s dealing with Israel, for we know from the Old Testament that every time Israel sinned God caused them to be removed from the Promise Land, and when they repented God brought them back into the Promise Land. So, we need to understand, from these two clearly illustrated consequences deriving from their good and bad behaviour, what God is telling us: and that is, that sincauses us to move out from the grace of God,and repentancebrings us back into the grace of God. In other words we can sincerely and confidently say, remain in the grace of God and we are dwelling in the “Promised Land.” Yes… even if we live on the inhabitable Continent of Antarctica.

 

[free spirit]

Hey Emiliano (and probably sojourner)

Here is some notes from my friend that i think you might find interesting

Your post 412 does not make sense to me, I speak two languages and I know when I translate something if I translate the message word for word it doesn't make sense, I have to use words that are no there and a lot of time turn the sentences up side down. the important part is not the word that one uses, but the important part is that the spirit of the message is correct.

 

[sojourner]

Well we are in agreement.:clap

No, we are most definitely not in agreement. You're in the "knowing Christ in my heart" camp. While that is fine, we also need to have a cognitive understanding of who Christ is.

 

[sojourner]

Or could it be that the Father put it in the heart of Jesus to will to want to be a sacrifice for sin.

Which would be the same as ... coersion.

 

[sojourner]

And that ends our lesson in "Christian Hermeneutics" for the day, boys and girls.

I'm not at all convinced that you're familiar enough with the "Christian hermeneutic" to give us a lesson in anything more than your own ignorance of the subject. Therefore, since the lesson has not begun, it cannot have ended...

 

[sojourner]

This is the worst thread in the history of RF.

And I mean that sincerely.

Including all the really bad ones arguing homosexuality...

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Including all the really bad ones arguing homosexuality...

haha I was wondering if I should include all the threads started by trolls that only include random profanities.

 

[free spirit]

No, we are most definitely not in agreement. You're in the "knowing Christ in my heart" camp. While that is fine, we also need to have a cognitive understanding of who Christ is.

Well... I am all ears.
I love to know you cognitive understanding of who Christ is.