Do you understand the New Testament

[AK4]

there is also written that who blasphemy against the holy spirit is not forgiven.

Just fyi

“is not forgiven ---in this age or the age to come” The part in black is what a lot of translations have left out and changed the meaning of the word I keep telling you that has done great deal of damage to the Gospel. That word aion/aionis again. Heres a another translation that got it right


29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin" --

I can choose to do good, I can choose to do bad, and I can choose to do nothing, that is to me freedom to move within my humanity. After all I am not free to get off this planet, no I am not free at all, I am only free to Choose, "to be or not to be" I knew all of that I made reference of that in my articles as you know, but I never analyzed the way you have, I know that to became a bond servant of God one has to always choose what God would choose, for Jesus said "I always do the things that pleases the father"
But as we analyze that in the normal human way we can just say, what Jesus said "Go and sin no more"

Okay, I think you are starting toget it, but I don’t know if you fully grasp it. Do you think anyone at anytime can choose to do something other than what God has already determined or planned for them? Good or bad? This is what the church and the world teaches that you can choose something contrary to what God had already planned or that once you’ve accepted Jesus and given the holy spirit you now have the ability to choose to do good or evil. With your freewill you can now choose with your own ability to do something good even though God had already planned for you to do something else. In other words you now have the ability to thwart Gods plan for you if He had planned on you to be one of the ones who is to fall away. Does somebody have the ability to thwart Gods plan?

See even Jesus didn’t have a will free from His Father. He could only do good because that is what His Father had already planned for Him. He knew He could not sin because He knew He can only do what His Father planned Him to do. His Father planned that He could not sin and Jesus could in no way thwart that with His own will. Everyone agrees with this with Jesus but don’t think it applies to the rest of humanity. If God plans for one to fall away and become a serial murderer, that person cannot thwart what God planned by using his will to never fall away. If he could then he would be more powerful than God Himself and that’s where the prophecy spoken of by Daniel and Paul is brought in about “the” anti-christ(s) (which is each and every individual of mankind)

2Thess 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Couple this with the beast in Revelations (realising that man/mankind is the beast) standing on the seashore etc etc.

 

[free spirit]

See even Jesus didn’t have a will free from His Father. He could only do good because that is what His Father had already planned for Him. He knew He could not sin because He knew He can only do what His Father planned Him to do. His Father planned that He could not sin and Jesus could in no way thwart that with His own will. Everyone agrees with this with Jesus but don’t think it applies to the rest of humanity. If God plans for one to fall away and become a serial murderer, that person cannot thwart what God planned by using his will to never fall away. If he could then he would be more powerful than God Himself and that’s where the prophecy spoken of by Daniel and Paul is brought in about “the” anti-christ(s) (which is each and every individual of mankind)

This is were my spirit gets disturbed (or begin to get sick) it is like poison I totally reject that notion, If you cannot see your enormous contradiction in that, I do not know what to say to you, but this one thing: If it is as you say what reason would have the holy spirit to glorify Jesus.

2Thess 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Yes there are always things that will influence our chaises but we can also go against our better judgment and choose against it, in one hand you say that God will never take our will to choose, on the other you contradict yourself by saying that God will not be negate. I am happy to accept that my free will is limited to choosing what God put in front of me, take that away and I became a robot, no longer a living soul.

 

[AK4]

This is were my spirit gets disturbed (or begin to get sick) it is like poison I totally reject that notion, If you cannot see your enormous contradiction in that, I do not know what to say to you, but this one thing: If it is as you say what reason would have the holy spirit to glorify Jesus.

Sorry about that I tried to give you the shortened explanation because I know I have been typing “books” to you. But as you can see when I do this something wont make sense. Okay I didn’t mean to leave out the part of the holy spirit. For as it says “He was given the spirit without measure” and it was this that kept Him (Jesus) from being able to sin. God His Fathers spirit influenced Jesus’s will through His whole earthly life.

Now about His “freewill”. There are many statements by Jesus Himself that destroys the concept of freewill, but let me start off with something else to show you Jesus had no other course to take in His life on earth than what His Father willed for Him to do and Jesus VOLUNTEERED (or willed also) to do.
the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev 13:8) Could Jesus had done anything to change that He was to be the Lamb slain from the foundation? No.
Mr 8:31 - And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected … and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Isa 53:10 "Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief: When you shall make His soul an offering for sin…" Could Jesus thwarted or willed that He didn’t have to suffer? No. It would have broken scripture and we know that the scriptures can not be broken

Jesus prayed intensely to God take that cup away or if there could be another way for it to be done but notice His will verses His Fathers and the Fathers will is always in charge. Same thing with the rest of humanity. No one can do anything other than what God has planned.

Jesus, like us, definitely had/has a will, but Jesus with the spirit without measure has this spirit that can keep Him from choosing/willing anything other than what His Father tells Him. Jesus states:

“My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.”
“I can of mine own self do nothing”
“The Son can do nothing of Himself”
“No one taketh it away from me, but I lay it down of myself”. (Notice this is voluntary, not forced by God His Father)
"For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave me commandment WHAT I should say, and WHAT I should speak"

It was the very words of His Father that Jesus prayed. Those words that came out of the mouth of Jesus first came out of the heart of His Father, and God’s Words never ever return to Him void. Yet it is very hard for those who still have the trinity doctrine in them to see that the Father and Jesus are not the same “entity, person” so they wont see that it is the Father who influences, inspires, makes etc etc Jesus to will and to do and not Jesus Himself because Jesus and the Father are not the same “person”. Yet they are one in spirit, just as His church and all its individual members are to be one in spirit yet they are all separate “entities, persons”.

Not only did the Father do the speaking through His Son, but He also performed all of the works as well:
"Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you, I speak not of myself, but the Father that dwells in Me, He does the works"

There was nothing free in Jesus’ will that He could do that the Father didn’t inspire (cause, make). For it is GOD (the Father) who works in Jesus to will and to do of His good pleasure. Now if it was that way for Jesus, how could it be any different for any other human who ever lived? Think about that for a minute. Remember “it is GOD who works IN YOU (not does it for you, but WORKS IN YOU, therefore you still have your “freedom” to will, choose and do what “you” want so you are not a puppet or robot) to will and to do of His good pleasure”. You will choose to will and to do good if God granted you the gift of faith to be able to will and to do good OR you will choose to will and to do bad if God hasn’t granted you the gift of faith to be able to will and to do good. Either way it goes its ALL DEPENDS ON GOD not man. Jesus always depended on God for everything and without God “working in Him to will and to do” Jesus says “I can of mine own self do nothing” and “The Son can do nothing of Himself”

Maybe this may shed some light—Jesus said "…for without Me, YE [all of you] CAN DO NOTHING". So anyone who believes they truly have the Spirit of God in them and it really is in them can say

"Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you, I speak not of myself, but the Father that dwells in Me… "
If you truly acknowledge God in everything and truly understand that free will is a myth, (even though what I just put may sound to the carnal mind as if I am elevating someone to Jesus’ status even though I am not or maybe that I even sound blasphemous) one could say those same exact words and it would be true.

Am I wrong on this?---

13:11 And when they bring you to trial and deliver you up, do not be anxious beforehand what you are to say; but say whatever is given you in that hour, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.

2nd witness
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge to another faith to another the gifts of healing to another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits but all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.(1 Corinthians 12:4,5,7)

3rd witness
“For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. And since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us...” (Romans 12:4-8)

4th witness
“Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.” (I Cor 12:26-27
etc etc
Believe me freespirit, I tread very cautiously and in true humility in saying those last couple paragraphs.

 

[AK4]

Yes there are always things that will influence our chaises but we can also go against our better judgment and choose against it, in one hand you say that God will never take our will to choose, on the other you contradict yourself by saying that God will not be negate. I am happy to accept that my free will is limited to choosing what God put in front of me, take that away and I became a robot, no longer a living soul.

ACTS17: 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being…

Think deeply on that last verse quoted. Just as the fish are in the ocean and the water is in and out and throughout and around their whole body, so are we, mankind, animals, insects, the whole universe, the angels, demons and Jesus are in God the Father. In no way can we operate, choose, will or do independently/freely of Him. He is working through and in all, including Jesus. That’s why you have the Psalmists say

Ps 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell (sheol), behold, thou art there.

And Paul say “For it is God who works in both to will and to do”. Think about it, mans so called “wisdom” and “philosophy” and “theology” has hosed this up so bad and basically thrown out God the Father. There is no way to freely do or think anything if you truly believe verses like Acts 17:27-28 and Php 2:13 plus many many more. These theologians who are supposed to be people “intelligent” and “knowledgeable” about God are basically atheists. They (notice its they) created a doctrine and philosophy to try explain how God works and in doing so they removed Him and have put Him off into a far away place that make the masses try to “feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us” and not realise that “For in him we live, and move, and have our being” so the masses don’t know that He is right there in them.

The Freewill doctrine basically says God created us, placed us far off away from Himself and left us on our own. He is just watching us from afar and only helps those who try to do good or tries to have faith by their own power (sounds like trying to be saved by works doesn’t it? Or even God having respect for some people over others?).



Its like…
Gods here .............................................................................................................................and we’re over here.



And God says to us “good luck in saving yourselves, hope you will have the power and ability in your freewill to make it”. See how ridiculous it is?

Theres no contradiction. It just takes unlearning the “wisdom” of the world to understand spiritual things. The best way to understand it is, is that God controls everything by circumstances and He is the one who brings about all circumstances. Your will is influenced by these circumstances and you choose based off of different circumstances in your life that you’ve learned or haven’t learned, feel or don’t feel etc etc. Gods ultimate plan will not be negated because “it is God who works in us both to will and to do” so He is the one controlling the circumstances in which one will choose something.

For example God wanted His Son to be a sacrifice for sin before the world was created, so He brought about the circumstances in Jesus’ life before Jesus created the world to want to will to sacrifice Himself for us. Following the step by step history of Israel He then brought about all the circumstances to where eventually the jews would reject His Son and crucify Him. Remember the verse where God says His “hand” brought all this about? Same thing with all creation, He will bring about all the circumstances to where ultimately He will be all in all. Someone through all their circumstances can choose to go against God now but in the end their circumstances will bring about a change in them to not want to go against Him anymore (that is what the Judgment and the “Day” of the Lord/Lake of Fire is for) and then eventually God will be in them, (all in all). By this God will not be negated. It is scripture and it cant be broken.

 

[sojourner]

844 posts and there still is no understanding...

 

[free spirit]

844 posts and there still is no understanding...

I Sojourner where have you been?
Yes there is a lot of understanding between me and AK4, but for some reason he considers something of no consequence to the gospel vital important. But we are working on it and God willing one of us will see the light soon.

 

[free spirit]

Sorry about that I tried to give you the shortened explanation because I know I have been typing “books” to you. But as you can see when I do this something wont make sense. Okay I didn’t mean to leave out the part of the holy spirit. For as it says “He was given the spirit without measure” and it was this that kept Him (Jesus) from being able to sin. God His Fathers spirit influenced Jesus’s will through His whole earthly life.

Now about His “freewill”. There are many statements by Jesus Himself that destroys the concept of freewill, but let me start off with something else to show you Jesus had no other course to take in His life on earth than what His Father willed for Him to do and Jesus VOLUNTEERED (or willed also) to do.
the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev 13:8) Could Jesus had done anything to change that He was to be the Lamb slain from the foundation? No.
Mr 8:31 - And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected … and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Isa 53:10 "Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief: When you shall make His soul an offering for sin…" Could Jesus thwarted or willed that He didn’t have to suffer? No. It would have broken scripture and we know that the scriptures can not be broken

Jesus prayed intensely to God take that cup away or if there could be another way for it to be done but notice His will verses His Fathers and the Fathers will is always in charge. Same thing with the rest of humanity. No one can do anything other than what God has planned.

Jesus, like us, definitely had/has a will, but Jesus with the spirit without measure has this spirit that can keep Him from choosing/willing anything other than what His Father tells Him. Jesus states:

“My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.”
“I can of mine own self do nothing”
“The Son can do nothing of Himself”
“No one taketh it away from me, but I lay it down of myself”. (Notice this is voluntary, not forced by God His Father)
"For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave me commandment WHAT I should say, and WHAT I should speak"

It was the very words of His Father that Jesus prayed. Those words that came out of the mouth of Jesus first came out of the heart of His Father, and God’s Words never ever return to Him void. Yet it is very hard for those who still have the trinity doctrine in them to see that the Father and Jesus are not the same “entity, person” so they wont see that it is the Father who influences, inspires, makes etc etc Jesus to will and to do and not Jesus Himself because Jesus and the Father are not the same “person”. Yet they are one in spirit, just as His church and all its individual members are to be one in spirit yet they are all separate “entities, persons”.

Not only did the Father do the speaking through His Son, but He also performed all of the works as well:
"Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you, I speak not of myself, but the Father that dwells in Me, He does the works"

There was nothing free in Jesus’ will that He could do that the Father didn’t inspire (cause, make). For it is GOD (the Father) who works in Jesus to will and to do of His good pleasure. Now if it was that way for Jesus, how could it be any different for any other human who ever lived? Think about that for a minute. Remember “it is GOD who works IN YOU (not does it for you, but WORKS IN YOU, therefore you still have your “freedom” to will, choose and do what “you” want so you are not a puppet or robot) to will and to do of His good pleasure”. You will choose to will and to do good if God granted you the gift of faith to be able to will and to do good OR you will choose to will and to do bad if God hasn’t granted you the gift of faith to be able to will and to do good. Either way it goes its ALL DEPENDS ON GOD not man. Jesus always depended on God for everything and without God “working in Him to will and to do” Jesus says “I can of mine own self do nothing” and “The Son can do nothing of Himself”

Maybe this may shed some light—Jesus said "…for without Me, YE [all of you] CAN DO NOTHING". So anyone who believes they truly have the Spirit of God in them and it really is in them can say

"Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you, I speak not of myself, but the Father that dwells in Me… "
If you truly acknowledge God in everything and truly understand that free will is a myth, (even though what I just put may sound to the carnal mind as if I am elevating someone to Jesus’ status even though I am not or maybe that I even sound blasphemous) one could say those same exact words and it would be true.

Am I wrong on this?---

13:11 And when they bring you to trial and deliver you up, do not be anxious beforehand what you are to say; but say whatever is given you in that hour, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.

2nd witness
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge to another faith to another the gifts of healing to another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits but all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.(1 Corinthians 12:4,5,7)

3rd witness
“For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. And since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us...” (Romans 12:4-8)

4th witness
“Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.” (I Cor 12:26-27
etc etc
Believe me freespirit, I tread very cautiously and in true humility in saying those last couple paragraphs.

We do not only have Jesus, Paul basically said the same things, we read in Galatians 2: 20, "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which O now live in the flesh I live by faith in the son of God, who loved me, and delivered himself up for me."
In other words I can certainly see that I am no there yet; I can also see that Paul was speaking for himself and not for everyone.

 

[free spirit]

For example God wanted His Son to be a sacrifice for sin before the world was created,
so He brought about the circumstances in Jesus’ life before Jesus created the world to want to will to sacrifice Himself for us. Following the step by step history of Israel He then brought about all the circumstances to where eventually the jews would reject His Son and crucify Him. Remember the verse where God says His “hand” brought all this about? Same thing with all creation, He will bring about all the circumstances to where ultimately He will be all in all.
So please explain why God needed a sacrifice? Why not do what he wanted in the first place.
Someone through all their circumstances can choose to go against God now but in the end their circumstances will bring about a change in them to not want to go against Him anymore (that is what the Judgment and the “Day” of the Lord/Lake of Fire is for) and then eventually God will be in them, (all in all). By this God will not be negated. It is scripture and it cant be broken.
So in one hand you say they choose to go against him, and by the new circumstances in them they no longer go against God, and all is God's doing.
Yes I accept that.
Now, Please explain to me what that has got to do with the gospel of Christ?

 

[sojourner]

I Sojourner where have you been?
Yes there is a lot of understanding between me and AK4, but for some reason he considers something of no consequence to the gospel vital important. But we are working on it and God willing one of us will see the light soon.

It's not a question of understanding interpersonal relationships. It's a question of understanding the NT.

 

[AK4]

It's not a question of understanding interpersonal relationships. It's a question of understanding the NT.

As any can well tell, it is you who has no spiritual understanding. Case in point---show the world your "wisdom and understanding" by telling us the meaning of this parable


Mt 13:33 - He spoke another parable to them, "The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three pecks of flour until it was all leavened."
I know what the church (babylon) teaches and most likely you will parrot their same erroneous "wisdom and understanding".

Might i add, you know not who Jesus is or the Father and you dont know how deep the depths of satan is in this freewill thinking and how it directly deals with the Revelation (Unveiling) of Jesus Christ in someone.

 

[AK4]

I Sojourner where have you been?
Yes there is a lot of understanding between me and AK4, but for some reason he considers something of no consequence to the gospel vital important. But we are working on it and God willing one of us will see the light soon.

These man-made doctrines are of consequence. The free will is probably the one of most consequence because it deals directly with the Sovereignty of God and who sits on the throne in His temple. Even something as minor as the tithing doctrine can have a major consequence. Just as the Depths of God are "deep" so is the depths of satan. And in Revelations God tells just where the depths of satan is. (also where his throne is)

Just this verse alone should show you how much consequence these man-made doctrines are. This verse is addressed to the same people who actually call Jesus Lord. These are not atheists or something. These are christians who wont make it into the Kingdom.

"MANY [the called (christians) but not chosen] will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not

1. prophesied in Thy Name? And
2. in Thy Name cast out devils? And
3. in Thy name done MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?" (Matt. 7:22).

These are "Christians" (Lord, Lord) who BELIEVE in the Name of the Lord, and they do MANY… WONDERFUL… WORKS in the Name of the Lord. But what happens to them? But what does Jesus say to them "…DEPART from Me, you that work iniquity [lawlessness]" (Ver. 23).

Can you see how of consequence or seriousness these things are? Not to me, but to God. This verse alone should show any christian how maybe their is something that "they are missing" or that they aint being taught about God.

 

[AK4]

[

quote=free spirit;1762785]
So please explain why God needed a sacrifice? Why not do what he wanted in the first place.

I dont have much time today to answer this completely, so this is the short version answer---Someone asked before "if we are going to be sons and daughters of God and be "like Him (Jesus)" we didnt God just create a bunch of Jesuses in the first place". Basically saying why is God going through "nonsense" when He could of just created us all already perfect.

Heres the short answer---Aparently all this stuff we go through ties into getting the fruits of God mentioned throughout scripture, especially mentioned throughout the NT.

Why did God "need" a sacrifice? I dont know, He made the rules. We are given some insights on this in scripture but nothing i can think of right now off the top of my head. We could ask then why did God do anything at all also.

So in one hand you say they choose to go against him, and by the new circumstances in them they no longer go against God, and all is God's doing.
Yes I accept that.
Now, Please explain to me what that has got to do with the gospel of Christ

i will have to answer this later on Monday. Short answer---Everything. Pretty much the same thing i just stated above about getting the fruits of God and also the salvation of man. Theres more to it than that but that is all i have time for.

 

[free spirit]

These man-made doctrines are of consequence. The free will is probably the one of most consequence because it deals directly with the Sovereignty of God and who sits on the throne in His temple. Even something as minor as the tithing doctrine can have a major consequence. Just as the Depths of God are "deep" so is the depths of satan. And in Revelations God tells just where the depths of satan is. (also where his throne is)

Just this verse alone should show you how much consequence these man-made doctrines are. This verse is addressed to the same people who actually call Jesus Lord. These are not atheists or something. These are christians who wont make it into the Kingdom.

"MANY [the called (christians) but not chosen] will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not

1. prophesied in Thy Name? And
2. in Thy Name cast out devils? And
3. in Thy name done MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?" (Matt. 7:22).

These are "Christians" (Lord, Lord) who BELIEVE in the Name of the Lord, and they do MANY… WONDERFUL… WORKS in the Name of the Lord. But what happens to them? But what does Jesus say to them "…DEPART from Me, you that work iniquity [lawlessness]" (Ver. 23).

Can you see how of consequence or seriousness these things are? Not to me, but to God. This verse alone should show any christian how maybe their is something that "they are missing" or that they aint being taught about God.

Yes I can see that they are "lawlessness" because they are still follow the desires of the flesh, they have not renewed themselves in the spirit of their mind. But they are very religious as Paul was; Doing things for God but themselves been outside the spirit of God.

 

[free spirit]

Sorry about that I tried to give you the shortened explanation because I know I have been typing “books” to you. But as you can see when I do this something wont make sense. Okay I didn’t mean to leave out the part of the holy spirit. For as it says “He was given the spirit without measure” and it was this that kept Him (Jesus) from being able to sin. God His Fathers spirit influenced Jesus’s will through His whole earthly life.

Now about His “freewill”. There are many statements by Jesus Himself that destroys the concept of freewill, but let me start off with something else to show you Jesus had no other course to take in His life on earth than what His Father willed for Him to do and Jesus VOLUNTEERED (or willed also) to do.
the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev 13:8) Could Jesus had done anything to change that He was to be the Lamb slain from the foundation? No.
Mr 8:31 - And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected … and be killed, and after three days rise again.

God is not imprisoned by time as we are, so he knows who will do his will and who will not. He chose a descendant of David according to the flesh because God new that he will do all of his will; God did not have to manipulate Jesus will because Jesus was willing to do it. And Paul was chosen because God new before he was borne that Paul would be faithful once he converted, Yes it is as you say the Holy Spirit keeps us from going off the rails, but if we willfully want to do that he will not stop us.

Isa 53:10 "Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief: When you shall make His soul an offering for sin…" Could Jesus thwarted or willed that He didn’t have to suffer? No. It would have broken scripture and we know that the scriptures can not be broken

Jesus prayed intensely to God take that cup away or if there could be another way for it to be done but notice His will verses His Fathers and the Fathers will is always in charge. Same thing with the rest of humanity. No one can do anything other than what God has planned.
God gives his tasks to people that he knows he can trust to do just that.
It could have not been done another way, the heart of the matter is hidden in the knowledge of why Jesus had to die, Jesus' intensive prayer shows the will of his humanity, but he resisted it to sweating drops of blood. "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak."

 

[AK4]

Yes I can see that they are "lawlessness" because they are still follow the desires of the flesh, they have not renewed themselves in the spirit of their mind. But they are very religious as Paul was; Doing things for God but themselves been outside the spirit of God.

You have to think deeper than this to get to know "the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!"

Look at it like this. Everything in this universe follows some kind of law. This is both scientific and scriptural. Everything follows some kind law established by God because we know God is Sovereign and supreme, YET this freewill stuff follows no law whatsoever, hence lawlessness. What law does it follow? Yes we are free from the letter of the law, but the law is spiritual and spiritual "things" never go away and we know Jesus showed us how to keep the law spiritually. So technically we are not "free" from the law.

But only in this doctrine, belief is their no law. None. This is lawlessness, iniquity. What law does freewill follow? It, even by its definition, says it is even out of the realm of reach of divine forces. Jesus says “depart from me, workers of iniquity” (which is lawlessness). Do you see it? Freewillers believe they can “work” for their salvation or do “works” to obtain it because of their “god-given free gift of freewill”. But even Jesus says that their wonderful works are still works of iniquity/lawlessness. The scriptures plainly tells us that it is not of our works, yet freewillers try to do their own “works” to come to Christ and God the Father. Again, in one breath they say God did actually lead them to Him, but it was because I chose to do this or not to do that, my heart was here and only sometimes there---never giving full credit to the One who puts the heart in them to able to do or will good (Jer 13:23), who guides their ways and steps (Jer 10:23) (look up that verse, isn’t it saying that God controls everything by circumstances) etc etc. No they say because the only way God is involved in any of it is that He gave us freewill and left everything else up to us, our salvation is depended on our own ability to choose to do good.


The desires of the flesh are also the doctrines and traditions of man. Look at some of those caught up in the traditions and doctrines of their church. They desire them and love them so much that they are unwilling to see if what they have been doing is in some way contrary to God.

 

[AK4]

God is not imprisoned by time as we are, so he knows who will do his will and who will not.

See this is what I am saying. This statement places God afar off in some place as if we “should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: (never realizing that) For in him we live, and move, and have our being”

He chose a descendant of David according to the flesh because God new that he will do all of his will;

Ask yourself, Did God know just because He knows or was it God was going to bring it pass? God doesn’t just do something. You’d be hard to find where God just did something compared to brought it to pass. (I know there are translations out there that make it seem this way like in Genesis it says let there be light and then there was light, but the Hebrew is really saying come to be or to pass)

God did not have to manipulate Jesus will because Jesus was willing to do it. And Paul was chosen because God new before he was borne that Paul would be faithful once he converted, Yes it is as you say the Holy Spirit keeps us from going off the rails, but if we willfully want to do that he will not stop us.

You’re right He didn’t manipulate Him nor does He do anyone. But what He does do is place circumstances to where you will will to what He wants to accomplish. Noone cannot do contrary to what God has planned. Paul was chosen and entrusted with bringing some of the scriptures, but so was the ancient Israelites in keeping it. But did they keep it? (in their hearts, no). Was this Gods plan? Yes “it was written for our admonition”. God knew beforehand that they wouldn’t keep it. “oh that there was such a heart in them to keep my ways”---this was said right after He just gave and entrusted them with His word. So think about it, did God give them this and not know what would happen or did He plan this way? How all knowing is God? Or is it He just doesn’t know what are freewill will choose to do?

God gives his tasks to people that he knows he can trust to do just that.
It could have not been done another way, the heart of the matter is hidden in the knowledge of why Jesus had to die, Jesus' intensive prayer shows the will of his humanity, but he resisted it to sweating drops of blood. "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak."

Did Jesus have to die? He made the rules so He didn’t have to die, He could have done it another way, yet in His knowledge and wisdom given to Him by His Father, He knew there was no other way.

 

[free spirit]

You have to think deeper than this to get to know "the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!"

Look at it like this. Everything in this universe follows some kind of law. This is both scientific and scriptural. Everything follows some kind law established by God because we know God is Sovereign and supreme, YET this freewill stuff follows no law whatsoever, hence lawlessness. What law does it follow? Yes we are free from the letter of the law, but the law is spiritual and spiritual "things" never go away and we know Jesus showed us how to keep the law spiritually. So technically we are not "free" from the law.

I am a law abiding citizen, I willingly choose to do that because my obedience will bring me an troubles free life, I was thought that my personal integrity was worth more than anything that could be gained by losing my integrity. I am free to choose, or I have made myself slave of my integrity, but I chose to be slave of honesty, so I feel free in that environment.

So technically we are not "free" from the law.

Having swap my fleshly nature for Jesus heavenly nature, I am free from the law.
I was once slave to the law of the flesh so I could not keep the law of God; But Jesus freed me from the law of slavery to the flesh, so I could freely became slave to the law of Christ, Jesus needs my wiliness to be saved or he will not save me, obedience requires your wiliness to cooperate. If I am one of the chosen I may meed to be enticed by the stick or the carrot like he had to do with Jonah.

But only in this doctrine, belief is their no law. None. This is lawlessness, iniquity. What law does freewill follow? It, even by its definition, says it is even out of the realm of reach of divine forces. Jesus says “depart from me, workers of iniquity” (which is lawlessness). Do you see it? Freewillers believe they can “work” for their salvation or do “works” to obtain it because of their “god-given free gift of freewill”.

Yes believers of religion think that by obeying their doctrines they are working for God and can save themselves. They do not realize that they need the spirit of Christ in them, God will not accept anything, which is not from Christ. Christ is at work in me and will continue to work in me because I willingly obey him, by choosing to do things that pleases him.

 

[free spirit]

God is not imprisoned by time as we are, so he knows who will do his will and who will not.

See this is what I am saying. This statement places God afar off in some place as if we “should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: (never realizing that) For in him we live, and move, and have our being”

He chose a descendant of David according to the flesh because God new that he will do all of his will;

Ask yourself, Did God know just because He knows or was it God was going to bring it pass? God doesn’t just do something. You’d be hard to find where God just did something compared to brought it to pass. (I know there are translations out there that make it seem this way like in Genesis it says let there be light and then there was light, but the Hebrew is really saying come to be or to pass)

God did not have to manipulate Jesus will because Jesus was willing to do it. And Paul was chosen because God new before he was borne that Paul would be faithful once he converted, Yes it is as you say the Holy Spirit keeps us from going off the rails, but if we willfully want to do that he will not stop us.

You’re right He didn’t manipulate Him nor does He do anyone. But what He does do is place circumstances to where you will will to what He wants to accomplish. Noone cannot do contrary to what God has planned. Paul was chosen and entrusted with bringing some of the scriptures, but so was the ancient Israelites in keeping it. But did they keep it? (in their hearts, no). Was this Gods plan? Yes “it was written for our admonition”. God knew beforehand that they wouldn’t keep it. “oh that there was such a heart in them to keep my ways”---this was said right after He just gave and entrusted them with His word. So think about it, did God give them this and not know what would happen or did He plan this way? How all knowing is God? Or is it He just doesn’t know what are freewill will choose to do?

I can see your point but You are splitting hairs.

Did Jesus have to die? He made the rules so He didn’t have to die, He could have done it another way, yet in His knowledge and wisdom given to Him by His Father, He knew there was no other way.

First of all God did not make the rules HE IS THE RULE and Jesus had to die, but he had to die sinless in order to fulfill the law, because only after death one can be permanently judged. By doing that he created a holy human soul, which could became one with God. thus establishing peace between God and man.

 

[free spirit]

To AK4

THE WILL OF GOD AND THAT OF THE HIGH PRIEST​

We read in Matthew 26 – 42: “He went away again a second time and prayed saying, “My father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, thy will be done”.

As we read the above verse we can be forgiven if we think that God’s will was for Jesus to be executed, and if we think that, then the high priest was only doing God’s will, and if that is so we should also be screaming crucify, crucify him. Therefore it is in the interest and integrity of our holy faith to understand and separate God’s will, from the high priest’s will, because those two wills are intertwined. It is clear however that God could not have achieved his plan of redemption for men without making use of the High priest’s free will. The important thing to understand for the sake of our holy faith is that God used the evil deed of the high Priest, but he (God) had nothing to do with bringing it about, otherwise the high priest would no longer be acting alone or by his own free will.

We all know that the high priest’s will was to have Jesus put to death by execution, for we read in John 11 – 48 – 49 – 50: “If we let him go on like this, all men will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation”. But a certain one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you (us) that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation should not perish”.

The above verses make the reason and intention of the high priest clear. For he is mainly afraid that his influential position and the Jewish religion will be abolished by the Romans, because they all thought that if Jesus was not stopped, eventually the entire congregation would believe in him and there would be no longer any need for their office and their religion (or nation.) In a nutshell we can confidently say, that the high priest had Jesus put to death so that his influential office and the Jewish religion could continue its existence.

By that knowledge alone we now understand, that Jesus’ execution was soli the will of the high priest and his associates, and God had nothing to do with that decision, nevertheless he did not interfere to save his son or alleviate his sufferings. Therefore, we all should ask ourselves, why he had to pay for our sins with his life? The answer is found in Matthew 5 – 17: For Jesus said, “Do not think that I came to abolish the law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfil.”

We know that all the prophecies that were written about him in the Old Testament were fulfilled as his life unfolded. But how could Jesus fulfil the law? I believe that in order to fulfil the law he had to die sinless. For we read in Hebrews 9 – 27: “And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment.” Yes, it stand to reason, that only after death the judgement can be final, because only then we can no longer sin.

We know that Adam could not keep one simple law, “Genesis 2 – 17” and as a consequence mankind had to die. But Jesus, a type of Adam kept all of the law, despite the temptation within himself to escape death, as well as the temptation to respond, to those that inflicted on him excruciating pain and verbal abuses. Yet, in all that agonising time he did not utter one single complain or accusing word, but blessed them by forgiving them. And because of that he fulfilled the law, (or accomplished God’s will) in consequence he reversed what Adam did, therefore now the entire human race has justification of life.

We should know, that much more than justification of life awaits the believer, who through the spirit of Christ become the adopted sons and daughters of God. For we read in ACTS 2 – 33 and verses 38 – 41: “Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured forth this which you both see and hear.” In verse 38 we read. And Peter said to them, “Repent, and let each of you be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” And verse 41 reads: “So then, those who had received his word were baptised; and there were added that day about three thousand souls”. So, through the Holy Spirit that was given to us, we know that the fulfilment of the law is the true irreversible outcome of his sacrificial mission, for we also read in 1st Corinthians 2 – 10: “For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.”

The following allegorical illustration should clarify God’s will regarding the mission given to Jesus. It will also clearly define Jesus’ sacrificial mission of love. So let us imagine that during wartime there are many missions to be carried out against the enemy and all of them contain some risk of possible loss of some members of those who are taking part in the mission. But other times the mission is so risky that they call for volunteers, the mission is such that the probability of survival are nil, but it has to be done; in this case the commander is sacrificing a small willing number of men for the greater good of the cause.

The question we should ask ourselves is this: Is the commander’s will to have those men killed? Or is the commander’s will that the mission is accomplished? And if your answer is what I think it is, now apply the same formula to God’s will regarding the mission given to Jesus.

John 3 – 16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave (sacrificed) his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.” So God willingly sacrificed his son for the greater good of humanity. Our thanks go to God and to Jesus who successfully carried out the sacrificial mission of fulfilling the law. Hence, believing in his life and in his triumph over the temptation of sinful flesh now saves us. Furthermore we have been fully assured that he has gracefully donated to us his triumph over sin in the flesh through the gift of his Holy Spirit, so that we now can also resist temptation and live holy lives.

Certainly we can now live holy lives it is confirmed in Luke 1 – 73 – 74 – 75, for we read, “The oath, which he swore to Abraham our father, to grant us that we, being delivered from the hand of our enemies (power of sin) might serve him without fear. In holiness and righteousness before him all of our days.”
The above understanding of the scripture is a trustworthy rendering as we read in 1st Corinthians 15 – 56: “The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.”
So we can now confidently say, that Jesus by dying sinless fulfilled the law, consequently stripped sin (our enemy) of its power.

Glory to God

 

[AK4]

THE WILL OF GOD AND THAT OF THE HIGH PRIEST​

As we read the above verse we can be forgiven if we think that God’s will was for Jesus to be executed, and if we think that, then the high priest was only doing God’s will, and if that is so we should also be screaming crucify, crucify him. Therefore it is in the interest and integrity of our holy faith to understand and separate God’s will, from the high priest’s will, because those two wills are intertwined. It is clear however that God could not have achieved his plan of redemption for men without making use of the High priest’s free will.

There it is again, mistaking freewill and choice. And you cant say His choice was free either because (looking at it through the unscriptural belief that when Jesus first appeared on earth is when He first came into existence) His choice was influenced by His Father. Yet still (the scriptural way) Jesus was already created before the heavens and the earth and His will was still influenced by His Father to be “slain before the foundation of the earth”

The important thing to understand for the sake of our holy faith is that God used the evil deed of the high Priest, but he (God) had nothing to do with bringing it about, otherwise the high priest would no longer be acting alone or by his own free will.

Let me show you where you are contradicting yourself. In another article (the holy temple) you sent me you said this

Talk systematically to him/her describe the situation, confess your worst fears and errors, confess that for a time your faith had vanished, and confess in retrospect that despite your lack of faith all the work that you did, had the hand of God in it. For we all know that by ourselves we are not that good. Conclude, by accepting that the happy outcomes as well as the not so happy outcomes were the will of God

I did respond to it but never sent you it because I forgot, but here is what I said

Do you remember debating with me about this? You basically fought me on this when I presented scriptures about God using evil and God creating vessels of dishonor like pharaoh and judas. That God even says that it was all brought about by His hand. So do you truly believe what you wrote, that it goes with the good and the bad?

Now let me add to this. Do you see the contradiction? This is what freewillers have to do to make freewill work. They have to contradict themselves. You did what Ive been saying that in one breath God has His hand in everything and then say in another God doesn’t mess with your freewill. It cant be both ways. Its one or the other and scripturally we have God has His hand in everything, Doctrinally/philosophically (man-made) we have “(God) had nothing to do with bringing it about, otherwise the high priest would no longer be acting alone or by his own free will.”

Did God do something different with Jesus than what He does with everyone else? Nope. “As He is so are we” “the same yesterday, today and forever (eonian)””I change not”. Heres a good one for your high priest argument and lets throw in Judas too.

Am 3:6 …. shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

See how it just don’t work. Let me show you what you really said in that last paragraph

The important thing to understand for the sake of our holy faith freewill God used the evil deed of the high Priest, but he (God) had nothing to do with bringing it about, otherwise the high priest would no longer be acting alone or by his own free will.


By that knowledge alone we now understand, that Jesus’ execution was soli the will of the high priest and his associates, and God had nothing to do with that decision,

How can you come to that conclusion? That directly throws out

Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him with pain. When you make his life an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring, and shall prolong his days; through him the will of the Lord shall prosper.

You are placing mans will above Gods will as if it wasn’t God will to crucify His Son but through the high priest freewill it only came to be.

nevertheless he did not interfere to save his son or alleviate his sufferings.

This is the same thing ive been saying freewillers think---that God doesn’t interfere with man compared to God has His hand in everything. God brought it all about, not man.

Therefore, we all should ask ourselves, why he had to pay for our sins with his life? The answer is found in Matthew 5 – 17: For Jesus said, “Do not think that I came to abolish the law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfil.”

We know that all the prophecies that were written about him in the Old Testament were fulfilled as his life unfolded. But how could Jesus fulfil the law? I believe that in order to fulfil the law he had to die sinless. For we read in Hebrews 9 – 27: “And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment.” Yes, it stand to reason, that only after death the judgement can be final, because only then we can no longer sin.

Here comes in the problem of if this is the only “day” (age) of salvation. It can not be otherwise Jesus will not fulfill what His Father commissioned Him to do which is to be the Saviour of the world. What will happen when judgment comes:

Isa 26:9 - For when your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness.