Do you understand the New Testament

[free spirit]

AK4 your post 797 is so out of focus to what God is doing. I do not know were to begin.
let say that there is the will of God, and there is the will of self, and those two came together. now by the grace of God you have self control. In this case your will is subjected to the will of God. The apostles identified with that, because the called themselves bond-servants of God, Slaves of Christ etc.etc.

Those who revile angelic Majesties are those self willed preaches that perform the casting out of evil spirits from a possessed person, they do not only command the evil spirit to come out but they insult it as well. We read in Jude 1: 8 to 10, 'Yet in the same manner these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties. but Michal the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, the lord rebuke you. but these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed."
You use Romans 9: 19 to 23, to support your argument, but I find these scriptures so out of touch with the character of my God, that I seriously think that these scriptures were not inspired by God.

 

[AK4]

AK4
I have a feeling that you do not understand where I am at in the spirit; but I do understand where you are at. there is a fence between us, this fence is similar to the yet unsolved argument of, if we are under law or under grace.
the argument goes like this, we are under grace but we must keep the law, and no grace did away with the law.
needless to say they obviously do not understand what grace is.
We also have a problem; I understand the scripture through the freedom of the Holy Spirit, you on the other hand understand the scriptures with the wisdom of the flesh, do not get me wrong between us there is only a tin fence.
I have a 12 page document that I like to send you, it will explain to you my understanding of the scriptures, it is better to get this document all together so you get the whole picture.
Do you have an Email address?

Yes, i will try to PM you. No i know we are not under the law but under grace, yet after coming out of the churches i know that grace has a lot higher meaning than what the churches teach. The churches teach that it is just like a free gift from God and after we receive it nothing happens. Its like receiving a gift of power tools or something and never using them or that the tools dont do anything. You just hang them up on the wall and say "im under grace".

In reality this grace is does something. Strongs definition is grace---divine influence on the heart. It teaches and it labours. And Paul goes on to show that this grace does things/works or it labours.

1 Cor 15: 10 “But by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace (divine influence on the heart) which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all (labored): yet not I (labored), but the grace of God (labored) which was with me (labored).”

So what is the grace of God doing in Paul’s heart? It LABORS, it works. Is Paul doing the works? Yes but no because it is God working through him so no its really Paul doing the work.

The churches teach that grace is just a noun, they dont realise that is also verb. Heres the proof

"...when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord" (I Cor. 11:32).

Chastening defines how it is that God judges us. Now then, we are about to learn one of the most remarkable spiritual truths in the whole Bible:

"For the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men , teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world [eon or age]" (Titus 2:11-12).

Here then is the remarkable parallel between God’s judgment and His grace:
God "judges" us by "chastening" us (ICor. 11:32)-----chasten," Greek: "#3811 ‘paideuo’
God "graces" us by "teaching" us (Titus 2:12)----------"teaching," Greek: #3811 ‘paideuo’

"Judging" is CHASTENING (Strong’s #3811), and "gracing" is CHASTENING (Strong’s #3811). Whether God "JUDGES" us (and later the wicked world), or "GRACES" us, He does it the same way "Grace" is not a stagnant feel-good noun -- it is also a verb -- that is, it does something; it accomplishes something; it produces something of great value in the believer.

So i know the law is spiritual and it was just a schoolmaster. Its like in elementary we learn the basics of addition and subtraction. By the time we get to college we should be well beyond the basics of those and into some form of algebra or calculus---never throwing away the what we learned from the basics. And thats the same thing it is with the law and going to the higher expectations Christ commands us.

Edit--By the way, after knowing the truth about free will i am hardly in the flesh and completely in the spirit, free from my works, came out of Babylon and know i can only do Gods will.

 

[AK4]

AK4 your post 797 is so out of focus to what God is doing. I do not know were to begin.
let say that there is the will of God, and there is the will of self, and those two came together. now by the grace of God you have self control. In this case your will is subjected to the will of God. The apostles identified with that, because the called themselves bond-servants of God, Slaves of Christ etc.etc.

Those who revile angelic Majesties are those self willed preaches that perform the casting out of evil spirits from a possessed person, they do not only command the evil spirit to come out but they insult it as well. We read in Jude 1: 8 to 10, 'Yet in the same manner these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties. but Michal the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, the lord rebuke you. but these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed."
You use Romans 9: 19 to 23, to support your argument, but I find these scriptures so out of touch with the character of my God, that I seriously think that these scriptures were not inspired by God.

Here’s the big difference. The belief in doctrine of free will and the believing the scriptures.

First believing the scriptures. Theres one thing in being skeptical thinking a verse is translated right or wrong or if it was added or not and then theres the other just flat out rejecting something because it doesn’t fit your understanding. If you think a verse is translated right or wrong or was added or not—do the research and find out if that’s the case. If a passage don’t fit your understanding do the same thing or ask God for understanding and see if contradicts any other precept in the Word. If it shows by research it was supposed to be as it is and it doesn’t fit your understanding then either you need to ask God for understanding or test out that passage or verse to the rest of the Word of God and see if you can find two or three witnesses to back up that verse or passages.

You are doing what most do. They don’t like the truth shown to em where it just shatters all their beliefs that they built and Christ says they it built on the sand, not on the Rock that is Him. So the rains and the winds come and their house comes falling down.

This leads into the free will doctrine. When the free will doctrine is exposed and shown unscriptural it shatters almost all of the teachings of the church, the teachings of men, the teachings of the world, ultimately the “doctrine of demons”. The passage you think is not inspired is witnessed by not only the passages in where Paul got them from by throughout all the Word with hundreds of scriptures to back it up. That’s why God says and warns “because you despise my word……”.

You say those verses are out of touch with the character of God---no it’s the world who is out of touch with the character of God. Those verses show exactly His character as portrayed throughout, mainly showing, contrary to what man wants to believe, that HE IS IN CONTROL OF EVERYTHING not leaving things up to man and some fabled freewill. Man wants so bad to be in control of themselves, to be their own god. "God can be in control of everything else but me." "If He interferes with me and makes me love Him then its not true love". Man thinks He knows what love is but doesn’t even know that. God gives them the example of parenting and how it takes the love that a parent shows to their kids to make the kids love them back. Man sort of understands that part, but man doesn’t understand that the same concept applies to them and God. No you guys believe its by your freewill you should love God and nothing makes you do this, not even God.

And the list could go on and on. Ask yourself, you don’t believe that passage right? Do you believe the passages where Paul also states pretty much the same exact thing God does to Israel so that the Gentiles may be grafted in? Didn’t God blind them too/harden their hearts so “willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering these vessels of wrath (vessels unto dishonour) fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy (the few, called AND chosen), which he had afore prepared unto glory,”.?

Heres part of the passage

ROM 11:8 (According as it is written, God (WHO? GOD) hath given them the spirit of slumber, F42 eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day. 9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles,

WOW sounds like the same thing as above. So its okay and in His character that He did this to Israel, but it’s a whole other story when applied to all mankind. Again it’s the world who is out of touch with the character of God, not His Word.

Do you see the contradiction in your own beliefs compared to the Word of God?

 

[AK4]

quote=AK4;1696198]quote freespirit


The OT is a shadow of Jesus because He was not revealed yet, today the Jews do not see the Lord, even with the advantage of the NT.

No see you are still stuck in the trinity doctrine. The Father (the invisible, spirit (not a spirit, but spirit) was not revealed yet. Jesus came to reveal the Father, not Himself. Jesus was already Lord.
Sadly jews and Christians and most of the world don’t see The Father or Jesus.


The heavenly character can only came if you ask Jesus for it, and I cannot see an unbeliever or members of another religion making that request. even some Christian churches do not know that his Spirit is alive and active today, They study dead languages, history, archeology, the meaning of mysterious words. If they new him they would ask him direct, he is alive, he speaks your language whatever it may be, for he is the inventor of all languages.

Let me show you another part of Gods character. Does God hate some people? The world says no, the Word saysHe hated Esau, He hates a false witness, He hates people. He doesn’t just hate false witnesses, He hates a false witness, that’s a person.

.



You can be a very devoted religious person like Paul and yet be in the flesh, that is why Jesus said "you shall no them be their love" knowledge is Good, but the love of Jesus in you is greater. Love does no harm a person no matter what.

Really? Did Peter have those two killed for lying to the Spirit? (Acts 5:1-11)

What about Paul turning one over to Satan? (1 Cor 5:5)

What about God turning man over to their reprobate mind? (Ro 1:28 )

How about Jesus coming back in wrath (everywhere)

Etc etc

And I believe its “you should know them by their fruits” and truthfully they go hand and hand love and knowledge





As I said before in different words, a believer must have the spirit of truth or (the spirit of holiness) before he can truly worship God.

As you know religious people have killed Christ, and has persecuted the church of God, they did not have his spirit, but they were in the flesh sincerely believing to act for God. they did not understand that God has chosen to work with the power of love to destroy evil,



So in other words one doesn’t have the spirit of truth ( the spirit of holiness) to truly worship Christ if they are worshipping Him in vain, teaching of the doctrines the commandments of men. They don’t really have the spirit and are not truly worshiping if they if they believe a lie

 

[Logikal1]

Free Spirit, I'm a minister. I put in years of intense Bible study, theology etc. I'm sorry to say it's clear you do not understand God's text. I don't believe you've any special 'enlightenment' - especially considering the way you misconstrue traditional passages - & aremaking up your beliefs as you go. It's clear you get a thought in your head & convince yourself it's 'divinely inspired' even when it conflicts w/the Bible. If you're going into churches giving them this corrupted interpretation I fear you're one of those false prophets Jesus warned us about. Jesus said of those leading children astray, 'it would be better for them had a millstone been tied around their necks and they be drowned."

It seems you don't even understand 'The Lord's Prayer'. Are you aware this isn't so much 'A prayer' as a template for prayer? Disciples begged, 'Lord, teach us to pray'. [After all, they saw how Jesus prayed often & long & G-d clearly favored Him, so they wanted in on the secret.] Jesus did exactly that. He taught them - and us - the process of how to pray properly. Let's over it together, ok?

Jesus says we're to bless [hallow] the name of the Father.It was so important Jesus put this FIRST! This reminds us never to use the name of G-d for anything other than prayer. It reminds us of the power of G-d's name & that it's sacred. We're to honor & praise the very name of G-d!Jews speak the Name but 1x per year when ONLY the high priest may whisper it! WE should have that same reverence for His Name! We then pray for the coming of the Father's kingdom here on earth & that the Kingdom of G-d will be as strong on earth 'as it is in heaven'. This means we pray every person on earth will be worshipping & following the will of G-d no matter what Name by which they call Him.

Next, we pray for what we need. 'Give us this day our daily bread' translates into 'give us this day all that we lack- or think we lack'. We might pray 'Father, you know my need before I ask. Jesus said to trust that anything I ask of You will be granted. Here're my needs, Father.' Then list the things you seek of Him. Of course we often ask for things we don't need, so implicit in this prayer is for G-d to withold anything we ask for that won't benefit us.

Jesus says to beg forgiveness. For what? For anything we did wrong since last we prayed & in life in general. For the sins remembered & forgotten. For failure to do things we should & for doing things we shouldn't. We ask G-d to forgive us all sinful acts. We're also firmly reminded at this point we'll only be forgiven to the extent we forgive others. This is something oft forgotten, considering how many Christians are ardent supporters of the death penalty, carry grudges etc. We're cautioned each time we pray this we risk much when we refuse to forgive others fully & without reservation!

Now comes the part you don't appear to understand: ''and lead us not into temptation".This does NOT imply G-d will lead us into evil! G-d is pure Love, pure Goodness; Jesus would hardly suggest otherwise. Recall Jesus is talking to his friends, teaching them how to pray to the Father & He's saying, 'go ahead; ask for what you need... but pray you don't get carried away.' See,G-d showers us with blessings - so many blessings we, being sinful creatures, first & foremost are greedy like spoiled children. We ask for far more than we need. We then fail to appreciate what we've been gifted, fail to thank Him; fail to share them. Ex: Americans live in the richest country on earth yet are so wasteful with what we have it's shameful. The average American throws out enough good food in a week to feed a family in another country for a month. Many grocery stores refuse to donate tons of food not sold: they compact it & send it to landfills instead! We earn much,yet few bother to share more than a tiny bit with their brethren OR their G-d."Tithe? Me? I can't afford to tithe!I have a family', or 'I have credit cards to pay off!' So they don't give back to G-d their top 10% [Nowhere in the New Testament does it say 'OK,you can stop G-d's cut.']

We're so busy with our jobs - a gift from G-d to be employed - we ignore family & friends; too busy to notice G-d in prayer other'n a few mumbled words here & there.We think a check's same as going to a shelter to help out. G-d gives us so much but because of our sinful natures we're tempted constantly to misuse His gifts. Ex: G-d gave us a pristine planet & we turned it into a giant garbage heap. Even the ocean has an area the size of Texas crammed with plastic bottles, refuse, etc to the point it chokes all life off beneath it! Rivers're so polluted the water's not safe to bathe in, much less drink. Even the Jordan between the Sea of Galillee & the Dead Sea's so thick with raw sewage it stops flowing for 20 miles down near - of all places - modern-day Sodom (what irony!). The spot where Jesus was baptized? A yellow-brown nasty smelling mess many days thanks to our gross misuse of it. THIS wickedness,greed, destruction, & flagrant abuse of what we've been gifted from G-d is the temptation Jesus was speaking of!

Jesus ordered we should pray to the Father to 'deliver us from evil'. He was speaking of more than evil like bad guys robbing a bank or demons: He also meant 'deliver us from the evil in our own hearts'. Evils like Pride, Arrogance - or even daring to claim a 'special enlightenment' from G-d no one else understands. I read your entries several times & see when you don't understand a thing you substitute words that make more sense - to you. You assume - when you don't understand what a line means, or when you've taken a line out of context - that 'someone' inserted false lines into the Bible - the Book written by men inspired by G-d. You dare change the Gospels to read the way YOU want? Have you considered this may be nothing more than Satan acting thru your ignorance! Those who change the Bible to make it fit their own thoughts & beliefs are rightly called heretics.

I assure you the Bible is NOT a hidden mystery G-d only reveals to one or two 'chosen'! Its message is available to any who take the time to read, study & learn it's language. Wonderfully, even if we study the Word nonstop every day for life, learn the setting of the language, even the languages in which the Scriptures were written to get the true meanings it'd still take more than a lifetime of constant study to unearth all the beauty &Truth contained in the Bible! Each time we read a chapter it's a chance for a fresh understanding or new way of looking at a passage (much the way one reads a regular text & finds new meanings each time it's read.) 'Course we'll never know the full extent of the wonder of the Word til we stand in His Presence.

I STRONGLY caution all who read this against taking lines out of context. It is the most dangerous practice of all. People can make the Bible say anything they wish by taking just one line - or a part of a line - of out of a verse or chapter & not reading the rest of the lines which give meaning to a phrase. Ex: One could say Jesus said, "old is good'' in Luke 5:39b. Except that isn't what He said. He said, And no one puts new wine into old wineskins, otherwise the new wine will burst the old wineskins and it will be spilled, and the skin will be destroyed. New wine must be put into new wineskins. And no one after drinking old wine desires new wine, but says, 'the old is good'. Luke 5:37-39

Likewise if one were to quote Luke 16:9a only, "and I tell you, make friends for yourselves by means of dishonest wealth" it'd sound as if Jesus was telling us to all go out & act like Wall Street bankers - stealing every penny we can lay our hands on! No, in order to understand & share God's Truth we must ALWAYS READ AND QUOTE the ENTIRE passage [FYI: in Luke 16:1-13 Jesus's making a serious point about the difference between children of Light & the children of 'this age' & what is true wealth & what is false.Taken out of context, do you see how it corrupts the meaning?]

I truly hope those reading this who have not yet done so will find a good Bible-study class where you can learn to read & understand the Bible properly. A good course always includes more than the Bible per se. In a well rounded course students study the different peoples and customs of the times; the cultures & some of the fascinatingly odd things that pop up in passages. Good courses include a study of Middle East vs modern geography, ancient religions as well as Judaism, Islam & Christianity & what we all share.The course should also include meditation on the Word, prayer, & learning how the Word of G-d impacts your everyday daily life. Don't be afraid to ask around. I prefer a group to online courses because other people often give me insight I can't get from a machine. Besides, Jesus said 'Where two or three are gathered, there I am in the midst of them.' I don't think He meant me, myself & Dell

Free Spirit, I believe if you take time to truly study you'll see how very much you're missing. you'll see the Bible is beautifully perfect as is. Believe me- or better yet, have faith in G-d - there're no 'mistakes', no 'false passages' in the Bible. G-d's Word is as intact today as when He began it almost 8,000 years ago & does not require us to tamper with it. Trust G-d to protect His Masterpiece.

Dona Nobis Pacem
(Lord, give us peace)

 

[free spirit]

TO LOGIKAL1
Welcome to the forum :foryou:

I feel privileged that your first post was directed at my thread; I appreciate what you say, because it is a typical answer from a committed denominational person. You write a lot because of that Little sentence, which to me sound like a slander of God's character.
You are defending the printed word which has been subjected to men for the last 2000 years. So the question is, does God leads us into temptation, or does God leads us into repentance? He cannot do both.
You love the bible, but does the bible love you, I know that God loves you. And I love you for what you said.

 

[free spirit]

Yes, i will try to PM you. No i know we are not under the law but under grace, yet after coming out of the churches i know that grace has a lot higher meaning than what the churches teach. The churches teach that it is just like a free gift from God and after we receive it nothing happens. Its like receiving a gift of power tools or something and never using them or that the tools dont do anything. You just hang them up on the wall and say "im under grace".

In reality this grace is does something. Strongs definition is grace---divine influence on the heart. It teaches and it labours. And Paul goes on to show that this grace does things/works or it labours.

1 Cor 15: 10 “But by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace (divine influence on the heart) which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all (labored): yet not I (labored), but the grace of God (labored) which was with me (labored).”

So what is the grace of God doing in Paul’s heart? It LABORS, it works. Is Paul doing the works? Yes but no because it is God working through him so no its really Paul doing the work.

The churches teach that grace is just a noun, they dont realise that is also verb. Heres the proof

"...when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord" (I Cor. 11:32).

Chastening defines how it is that God judges us. Now then, we are about to learn one of the most remarkable spiritual truths in the whole Bible:

"For the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men , teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world [eon or age]" (Titus 2:11-12).

Here then is the remarkable parallel between God’s judgment and His grace:
God "judges" us by "chastening" us (ICor. 11:32)-----chasten," Greek: "#3811 ‘paideuo’
God "graces" us by "teaching" us (Titus 2:12)----------"teaching," Greek: #3811 ‘paideuo’

"Judging" is CHASTENING (Strong’s #3811), and "gracing" is CHASTENING (Strong’s #3811). Whether God "JUDGES" us (and later the wicked world), or "GRACES" us, He does it the same way "Grace" is not a stagnant feel-good noun -- it is also a verb -- that is, it does something; it accomplishes something; it produces something of great value in the believer.

So i know the law is spiritual and it was just a schoolmaster. Its like in elementary we learn the basics of addition and subtraction. By the time we get to college we should be well beyond the basics of those and into some form of algebra or calculus---never throwing away the what we learned from the basics. And thats the same thing it is with the law and going to the higher expectations Christ commands us.

Edit--By the way, after knowing the truth about free will i am hardly in the flesh and completely in the spirit, free from my works, came out of Babylon and know i can only do Gods will.

So much writing to explain "Grace" you are so close and yet you miss the mark.
please let me explain to you in a nut shell grace is the personality of Jesus, if you have that personality or character you cannot help yourself but do the works of God, not you but his grace "Jesus" in you, plain and simple. "Christ in you the hope of glory" With that you can even forgive those that kill you, you can do miracle, you will have wisdom beyond measure. No, not you, but his grace in you will do those things.

 

[free spirit]

Here’s the big difference. The belief in doctrine of free will and the believing the scriptures.
First believing the scriptures. Theres one thing in being skeptical thinking a verse is translated right or wrong or if it was added or not and then theres the other just flat out rejecting something because it doesn’t fit your understanding. If you think a verse is translated right or wrong or was added or not—do the research and find out if that’s the case. If a passage don’t fit your understanding do the same thing or ask God for understanding and see if contradicts any other precept in the Word. If it shows by research it was supposed to be as it is and it doesn’t fit your understanding then either you need to ask God for understanding or test out that passage or verse to the rest of the Word of God and see if you can find two or three witnesses to back up that verse or passages.

I do not know if there is a doctrine of free will, but this I know, I have a free will, because I can obey or disobey, do good or do evil, if I say that I do not have a free will I will be contradicting my persona, in fact it would be a lie, Yes God is in charge, all things work for good to those that love him. But if I can renege on him even after he has blessed me, He has left my will free to walk away from him. I must love him willingly, for coerced Love is not love.

You are doing what most do. They don’t like the truth shown to em where it just shatters all their beliefs that they built and Christ says they it built on the sand, not on the Rock that is Him. So the rains and the winds come and their house comes falling down.
This leads into the free will doctrine. When the free will doctrine is exposed and shown unscriptural it shatters almost all of the teachings of the church, the teachings of men, the teachings of the world, ultimately the “doctrine of demons”. The passage you think is not inspired is witnessed by not only the passages in where Paul got them from by throughout all the Word with hundreds of scriptures to back it up. That’s why God says and warns “because you despise my word……”.

You say those verses are out of touch with the character of God---no it’s the world who is out of touch with the character of God. Those verses show exactly His character as portrayed throughout, mainly showing, contrary to what man wants to believe, that HE IS IN CONTROL OF EVERYTHING not leaving things up to man and some fabled freewill. Man wants so bad to be in control of themselves, to be their own god. "God can be in control of everything else but me." "If He interferes with me and makes me love Him then its not true love". Man thinks He knows what love is but doesn’t even know that. God gives them the example of parenting and how it takes the love that a parent shows to their kids to make the kids love them back. Man sort of understands that part, but man doesn’t understand that the same concept applies to them and God. No you guys believe its by your freewill you should love God and nothing makes you do this, not even God.

And the list could go on and on. Ask yourself, you don’t believe that passage right? Do you believe the passages where Paul also states pretty much the same exact thing God does to Israel so that the Gentiles may be grafted in? Didn’t God blind them too/harden their hearts so “willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering these vessels of wrath (vessels unto dishonour) fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy (the few, called AND chosen), which he had afore prepared unto glory,”.?

Heres part of the passage

ROM 11:8 (According as it is written, God (WHO? GOD) hath given them the spirit of slumber, F42 eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day. 9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles,

WOW sounds like the same thing as above. So its okay and in His character that He did this to Israel, but it’s a whole other story when applied to all mankind. Again it’s the world who is out of touch with the character of God, not His Word.

Do you see the contradiction in your own beliefs compared to the Word of God?

I ask myself why would a loving God do that? I believe that those people were religious people like Cane like Esau, like those that killed the prophets, and those that persecuted the Christians, Jews and pagans, they love their religion more than God, they did kill Jesus to save their religion, they did persecuted the Christians because they were loosing members to them, Yes Jews and pagans did that, they got offended because they were told that their religion was worthless.
Also the majority of the world population could not care less about God they are Godless.
And then there is those like me bond servants of God who try to install Christ in believers, by telling them that they must change their character of their flesh and replace it with the character of Christ. we read in Colossians 3: 2 to 6, "Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. for you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with him in glory. Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amount to idolatry. For it is on account of these things that the wrath of God will come."
So you see we have to choose between two character, the character of Christ or stay in the character of the flesh, we choose by setting our minds on the things above, or on the things upon earth. If it is as you say, it is better for me not to know, for in the end whatever will be, will be or che sara' sara'.

 

[free spirit]

quote=AK4;1696198]quote freespirit


The OT is a shadow of Jesus because He was not revealed yet, today the Jews do not see the Lord, even with the advantage of the NT.

No see you are still stuck in the trinity doctrine. The Father (the invisible, spirit (not a spirit, but spirit) was not revealed yet. Jesus came to reveal the Father, not Himself. Jesus was already Lord.
Sadly jews and Christians and most of the world don’t see The Father or Jesus.
I do not have a doctrine on anything, but I have an opinion, Jesus is the father and the father is Jesus, the holy spirit is a mixture of the two for we read in ACTS 2: 3, "Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear."

The heavenly character can only came if you ask Jesus for it, and I cannot see an unbeliever or members of another religion making that request. even some Christian churches do not know that his Spirit is alive and active today, They study dead languages, history, archeology, the meaning of mysterious words. If they new him they would ask him direct, he is alive, he speaks your language whatever it may be, for he is the inventor of all languages.

Let me show you another part of Gods character. Does God hate some people? The world says no, the Word saysHe hated Esau, He hates a false witness, He hates people. He doesn’t just hate false witnesses, He hates a false witness, that’s a person.
Yes, But what makes a person? I dare say his personality, or his character in other words God hate the character that gives berth to these fruit.
That is why we must repent or change the character inherited from Adam and put on the Character of Christ.
.



You can be a very devoted religious person like Paul and yet be in the flesh, that is why Jesus said "you shall no them be their love" knowledge is Good, but the love of Jesus in you is greater. Love does no harm a person no matter what.

Really? Did Peter have those two killed for lying to the Spirit? (Acts 5:1-11)
I do have my doubts on this one, For we read in Luke 9: 54 to 56, And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do you want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them? But he turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; for the son of man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."

What about Paul turning one over to Satan? (1 Cor 5:5)
In other words he abandoned him to his own flesh.

What about God turning man over to their reprobate mind? (Ro 1:28 )
Yes he abandoned them to their own fleshly minds.

How about Jesus coming back in wrath (everywhere)
Yes he will come to judge and judgment brings wrath.

Etc etc

And I believe its “you should know them by their fruits” and truthfully they go hand and hand love and knowledge
Or " you should know them by what they say" for the mouth speak from what is in their hearts."




As I said before in different words, a believer must have the spirit of truth or (the spirit of holiness) before he can truly worship God.

As you know religious people have killed Christ, and has persecuted the church of God, they did not have his spirit, but they were in the flesh sincerely believing to act for God. they did not understand that God has chosen to work with the power of love to destroy evil,



So in other words one must have the spirit of truth ( the spirit of holiness) to truly worship Christ otherwise they are worshiping Him in vain. the believing and teaching of the doctrines the commandments of men will lead to a religion of the flesh, so They don’t really have the spirit and are not truly worshiping if they believe a lie.
Yes because is all a matter of character, the closer your character is to that of Christ the closer you are to God. And what you believe is what shapes your character, so if you believe that God Kills people your character will readily accept the justification of killing.
for example if I truly know you character to be holy, and one day a well known news paper will publish a slander about your character, will I defend your character or believe the printed word. likewise I know the character of God to be holy, and if someone say he kills and hate, and he can do that with impunity because he is God, I say to him you do not know God. For God will not do what he has forbidden me to do, otherwise he would be a true hypocrite. But I know he is pure holiness he suffered death without a word of complain for me and you.

 

[AK4]

Hi Logikal1. Your comments are in black, mine are in red

Jesus says we're to bless [hallow] the name of the Father.It was so important Jesus put this FIRST! This reminds us never to use the name of G-d for anything other than prayer.

Using His name in vain is a lot deeper than just speaking it. If you claim to be in Christ and don’t do Gods will, then you are using His name in vain. If you follow all these physical rituals thinking doing these make you holy or save you, then you are using His name in vain.


It reminds us of the power of G-d's name & that it's sacred. We're to honor & praise the very name of G-d!Jews speak the Name but 1x per year when ONLY the high priest may whisper it!

They speak the name? What is His name? Jesus. Do they believe in Jesus? No. So they don’t speak the name that “there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12). How can people who deny Him call out His name?

WE should have that same reverence for His Name! We then pray for the coming of the Father's kingdom here on earth & that the Kingdom of G-d

That amazes me. You cant even say His name but you are supposed to call upon the name of the Lord. Besides God is not the name of the Father. God is the same word that the pagans used. God basically means the placer.

This means we pray every person on earth will be worshipping & following the will of G-d no matter what Name by which they call Him.

Oh boy. I guess that verse in Acts above means nothing. “there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

Next, we pray for what we need. 'Give us this day our daily bread' translates into 'give us this day all that we lack- or think we lack'.

What/Who is it we all need? Who is the bread of Life? Jesus.


Tithe? Me? I can't afford to tithe!I have a family', or 'I have credit cards to pay off!' So they don't give back to G-d their top 10% [Nowhere in the New Testament does it say 'OK,you can stop G-d's cut.']

Actually tithing in the New Covenant is unscriptural. And why oh why would God who not interested in the physical want money. MONEY was NEVER a tithable commodity anyway. God don’t want money, He wants the person

Ro 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Ps 51:17 - The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

I read your entries several times & see when you don't understand a thing you

No He understands the milk of the Word, but just like it seems from you, you both still have doctrines stuck in you guys heart and mind.

I assure you the Bible is NOT a hidden mystery G-d only reveals to one or two 'chosen'! Its message is available to any who take the time to read, study & learn it's language.

Really? Your very words contradict the very Words of Jesus. Shall I list them? Nah, not right now. I will give just one though

Lu 8:10 - And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

To Christ true disciples it is given, unto everyones it is not. Jesus said this to just separated disciples not to the multitudes. How about one more

Da 12:10 - Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

There are so many who claim they are wise, but when it comes to Gods Word they are foolish




I STRONGLY caution all who read this against taking lines out of context. It is the most dangerous practice of all. People can make the Bible say anything they wish by taking just one line - or a part of a line - of out of a verse or chapter & not reading the rest of the lines which give meaning to a phrase.

Yes I can sorta agree, BUT the context is the whole “bible” not just a chapter or paragraph. There are universal truths and precepts established by God in His Word where it should not contradict anywhere else. If you rightly divide the Word and never break any concept, from Gods own “mouth” you are commanded to do this.

Likewise if one were to quote Luke 16:9a only, "and I tell you, make friends for yourselves by means of dishonest wealth" it'd sound as if Jesus was telling us to all go out & act like Wall Street bankers - stealing every penny we can lay our hands on!

LOL. Now that’s just over the top

I truly hope those reading this who have not yet done so will find a good Bible-study class where you can learn to read & understand the Bible properly. A good course always includes more than the Bible per se. In a well rounded course students study the different peoples and customs of the times; the cultures & some of the fascinatingly odd things that pop up in passages.

Only God gives understanding and all that is not necessarily necessary.


Free Spirit, I believe if you take time to truly study you'll see how very much you're missing. you'll see the Bible is beautifully perfect as is.

The scriptures are beautifully perfect as is, but these translations out here, not all and not every single verse, can be horrible. Even by just changing the meaning of one word.

Believe me- or better yet, have faith in G-d - there're no 'mistakes', no 'false passages' in the Bible.

If you believe that then ask yourself why the 1611 king james versions has had over 10,000 correction made to it including one that had the command “thou shalt not kill” say “thou shalt kill”. And that just the tip of the ice berg.

G-d's Word is as intact today as when He began it almost 8,000 years ago & does not require us to tamper with it. Trust G-d to protect His Masterpiece.

You think there was a reason why God put that warning of adding and subtracting to His Words in there? Theyre not there in vain

 

[AK4]

quote freespirit
I do not know if there is a doctrine of free will, but this I know, I have a free will, because I can obey or disobey, do good or do evil, if I say that I do not have a free will I will be contradicting my persona, in fact it would be a lie, Yes God is in charge, all things work for good to those that love him. But if I can renege on him even after he has blessed me, He has left my will free to walk away from him. I must love him willingly, for coerced Love is not love.

I see you still don’t know the difference between choice and freewill/free choice and the lie thing isnt that exactly what God said man will do "a strong delusion....so that they will believe the lie"

Think, you love God now right? I assume yes. So now ask yourself, did it feel coerced? I assume you will say no. Okay now did God lead you to love Him or better stated did “the goodness of God lead you to repentance”? I assume you say yeah. Now think, if God lead you to love Him, did you do this on your own or better stated did you by your own will, free from any influence (especially of Gods) (for that is what the definition of freewill is) choose to love God? If you say yes you contradict your answer above and what you said above in quotes. If you say no then you acknowledge that God

Influenced, Coerced, Made, Forced, Inspired, Lead, Brought, THROUGH MUCH PRESSURE etc etc, you to love Him. Basically THROUGH MUCH PRESSURE He brings you to love Him and into His Kingdom. How do I say this? I don’t God does---


Ac 14:22 - Confirmingthe souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith,andthatwemustthrough much tribulation (2347) enterinto the kingdom of God.


Strongs Number 2347—thlipsis--

1. a pressing, pressing together, pressure

2.metaph. oppression, affliction, tribulation, distress

Can you see that God doesn’t keep one out of this tribulation but puts all his sons, not the b-stards through MUCH TRIBULATION to force them to love Him. Still don’t believe me?

"For whom the LORD loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives. If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not?"Furthermore we have had fathers of our FLESH which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of SPIRITS, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but He for our profit, that we might be partakers of His HOLINESS.
Now no chastening for the present seems to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby" (Heb. 12:9-11).
Its stated right there in Hebrews “like a father/parent (a human father/parent) He makes us love Him, follow His commands, believe in His Son, do His will”. Why sugar coat it? It is what it is. God makes us through judgment love Him and since He matters most and feels this is love, who are we to say other wise? We do the same thing to our kids.

Again you can only do what God wills you to do and what is according to His purpose

Remember the former things of old: For I am God, and there is none else; I AM GOD, and there is none like Me,"Telling from the BEGINNING, the HEREAFTER, And from AFORETIME, what has NOT YET been done, Saying, ‘ALL MY COUNSEL SHALL BE CONFIRMED, And ALL MY DESIRE WILL I DO.Calling from the sunrise, a bird of prey, From a land far off, the man of My counsel.Indeed, I SPEAK! INDEED,I WILL BRING IT ABOUT! I formed. Indeed, I WILL DO IT" (Isaiah 46:9-11).
Php 2:13 - For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure


I ask myself why would a loving God do that?

You should ask yourself the bigger, higher question? Would God create a creation where He didn’t have any control over every minute step and possibility? Would He create something to where He had a plan but left it all up to chance based on the freewill of billions and billions of humans and angels?

Remember

Isa 55:9 - For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Man has the short-sided view that sees things only in his lifetime. All we really know is life and death and we don’t really have absolute proof of life again. So God doing something like using one to be a vessel of dishonor to make another a vessel of honor seems unfair or “out of His character”. Yet we acknowledge that He used the scribes and Pharisees and the Romans to crucify His Son so that His Son could be the Saviour of the world, but we deny that the same thing is being done for those He is calling to be in His Kingdom so that they will help save the rest of humanity—still not many even realize that that is part of His plan (thanks to the false teachings of what Heaven is). But God who can see a lot further than we can knows even if He made some vessels of dishonor now He will also bring them back to life and make them vessels of honor too. He has the power to bring people back to life.


I believe that those people were religious people

Again do you not believe the scriptures I showed you where God said that He brought this all about? Did these people own free will bring about this? Do you see how you are doing just like atheists who discredit and remove God out of the picture and place man above God?


So you see we have to choose between two character, the character of Christ or stay in the character of the flesh, If it is as you say, it is better for me not to know, for in the end whatever will be, will be or che sara' sara'.

Yes you will choose, not freely because your mind and thoughts and actions have been influenced in some way or another. Either you will choose Christ because God has given you the faith to do so or you will not because of your carnal ways and thoughts (which God made you to have and is the only one who can give you faith). God will bring about circumstances for either one. To say you choose freely or by free will says God had nothing to do with your decision, therefore that basically says I am a god.

See its not que sera sera because even though God will make/force (or whatever) everyones will to be like His, He makes it that we all voluntarily volunteer to do His will. All will volunteerily submit their will to His and love Him for it even though He “forced” us to do it. Its almost no different than what society does to criminals until they “will” to be like society wants. (Of course Gods way is on a much grander scale

 

[AK4]

quote freespirit
I do not have a doctrine on anything, but I have an opinion, Jesus is the father and the father is Jesus, the holy spirit is a mixture of the two

The Father created Jesus (“the beginning of Gods creation Rev 3:14). Jesus began creating in place of His Father ((Rev 2:13) Antipas—in place of another), His God, therefore making Himself also a father. They have an espree de cor—one spirit in what they want to accomplish and do and what they think, they are one, like a husband and wife are one. The holy spirit is Jesus (1 John 2:1), the power of God, not the Father. Its no different when He says He and the Father are one and then pray that we also be one with Him and the Father

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Is this hard to understand? Ask yourself, does my opinion match up scripturally? If Jesus is the Father, how can Jesus say out of His own mouth that no one has seen or heard God and how can the Father die? Jesus can die and did die, the Father cant die. We can and will see Jesus but not the Father. With just those two things right there it destroys the trinity doctrine and your opinion. Don’t base things off your opinion base it off the scriptures.

That is why we must repent or change the character inherited from Adam and put on the Character of Christ.

No we inherited death, not sin. Our personality is to sin. That’s how God made us. Here is an email from someone. The answer is not mine and CAPS are the writers

As with ALL major doctrines, the Christian Church has not a clue as to this subject of "original sin."

The doctrine taught is that Adam and Eve were PERFECT (after all, could God create something that was NOT perfect? Were they not created in God's OWN IMAGE)?

Well, they were "perfect" in the same way that Satan (a liar and a murderer from the very beginning) was perfect -- PERFECT FOR THE PURPOSE FOR WHICH GOD CREATED THEM.

Adam and Eve ALREADY had lust and disobedience in their hearts BEFORE the serpent approached them. Eve LUSTED BEFORE she ever actually ate of the fruit. Small technicality for our Christian friends.

Now then let's read Rom. 5:12 together:
"Wherefore, as by one man [Adam] sin entered into the world, and death by sin: and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned."
Now then, WHERE does that verse say that Adam's "sin was passed on to all in the world?" Was "sin" passed on? NO! "DEATH" was passed on.
Are we condemned because of "ADAM'S SIN?" NO! "...for that ALL have sinned." All have sinned their OWN individual sins, they are not condemned because of Adam's sin, but they did receive "death" from Adam in that "mortality" WAS passed on to the whole human race, because Adam did NOT partake of the "TREE OF LIFE," but rather sinned which brought the penalty God promised of "death."

A better translation helps our understanding:
"Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world, and through sin death, and thus death passed through into all mankind on which all sinned..." (Concordant Literal New Testament).
Rom. 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners..."
They were made sinners by VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT THEY RECEIVED ADAM'S MORTALITY [DEATH] NOT HIS SIN. We sin because we are mortal [dying]. We have NO SPIRITUAL STRENGTH to combat our carnal, sinning, DYING, FLESH. Hence all sin because THEY ARE MORTAL. Adam sinned because HE WAS MORTAL. "It is appointed unto ALL men once to die"
But there are TWO DEATHS -- spiritual and physical. Jesus Christ said: "Let the DEAD bury the DEAD." Two kinds of "dead" in ONE VERSE. The SPIRITUALLY DEAD, who bury the PHYSICALLY DEAD!
Hope that helps your understanding a little better. One more point: Any human being from any generation in the history of the human race, if put in the garden under the same conditions as Adam, would have ALSO SINNED THE SAME WAY. Adam sinned not because he could have chosen NOT TO SIN, but because he was made too spiritually weak to avoid or conquer sin. God MADE Adam subject to VANITY and CORRUPTION (and "not willingly"). See Romans 8:18-23).

.
I do have my doubts on this one, For we read in Luke 9: 54 to 56, And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do you want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them? But he turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; for the son of man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."

It makes me wonder because the part I underlined is not in some translations but anyway there is a great lesson to be learned from Acts 5:1-11 and its about swearing to the Lord and not keeping it, let alone you are not to swear at all, but if you do it you must keep it. I do not doubt this passage at all, it corresponds perfectly to Christ command of not swearing at all.


In other words he abandoned him to his own flesh.
Yes he abandoned them to their own fleshly minds.

So are saying satan isn’t real? Just something in our minds? I hope not. Besides take the event of the flood. God is Love, but did He not bring the flood? Did he not promise to bring all kind of curses to the Israelite if they didn’t follow His commands etc etc. Remember only God can make war in righteousness and those He uses to do this or carry it out for Him are not doing “harm”.


Or " you should know them by what they say" for the mouth speak from what is in their hearts."

Right so do you or do you not believe the scriptures I pointed out?

Yes because is all a matter of character, the closer your character is to that of Christ the closer you are to God. And what you believe is what shapes your character, so if you believe that God Kills people your character will readily accept the justification of killing.

That’s a spin on words. I know that God kills people because it’s a fact and He is justified in doing so because He makes life and can bring it back. That doesn’t mean I justify man in killing because I don’t. I know that God scourges His sons and daughters. Do that mean I endorse child abuse too? See what I am saying.

For God will not do what he has forbidden me to do, otherwise he would be a true hypocrite. But I know he is pure holiness he suffered death without a word of complain for me and you.

So is He a hypocrite when He says and He follows through with these threats

Ex 22:24 - and My anger will be kindled, and I will kill you with the sword, and your wives shall become widows and your children fatherless.

Re 2:23 'And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.

Of course I know the spiritual meaning of these but did He not follow through with the Exodus verse? God can do this because He has the power to bring back to life.

 

[AK4]

So much writing to explain "Grace" you are so close and yet you miss the mark.
please let me explain to you in a nut shell grace is the personality of Jesus, if you have that personality or character you cannot help yourself but do the works of God, not you but his grace "Jesus" in you, plain and simple. "Christ in you the hope of glory" With that you can even forgive those that kill you, you can do miracle, you will have wisdom beyond measure. No, not you, but his grace in you will do those things.

Grace teaches you. Technically yes you could say its His personality and technically you cant because the grace is of the Father. Even Jesus recieved this grace


Lu 2:40 - [In Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek] The Child continued to grow and become strong, increasing in wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.
Joh 1:14 - [In Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek] And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
It wasnt His personality that was upon Him, it was His Fathers/ His God. Grace teaches you Jesus and His Fathers "personality" so you can choose to do His works.

 

[free spirit]

quote freespirit
I do not know if there is a doctrine of free will, but this I know, I have a free will, because I can obey or disobey, do good or do evil, if I say that I do not have a free will I will be contradicting my persona, in fact it would be a lie, Yes God is in charge, all things work for good to those that love him. But if I can renege on him even after he has blessed me, He has left my will free to walk away from him. I must love him willingly, for coerced Love is not love.

I see you still don’t know the difference between choice and freewill/free choice and the lie thing isnt that exactly what God said man will do "a strong delusion....so that they will believe the lie"

Think, you love God now right? I assume yes. So now ask yourself, did it feel coerced? I assume you will say no. Okay now did God lead you to love Him or better stated did “the goodness of God lead you to repentance”? I assume you say yeah. Now think, if God lead you to love Him, did you do this on your own or better stated did you by your own will, free from any influence (especially of Gods) (for that is what the definition of freewill is) choose to love God? If you say yes you contradict your answer above and what you said above in quotes. If you say no then you acknowledge that God

Influenced, Coerced, Made, Forced, Inspired, Lead, Brought, THROUGH MUCH PRESSURE etc etc, you to love Him. Basically THROUGH MUCH PRESSURE He brings you to love Him and into His Kingdom. How do I say this? I don’t God does---


Ac 14:22 - Confirmingthe souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith,andthatwemustthrough much tribulation (2347) enterinto the kingdom of God.

As I said once before, in retrospect I know that God was working to get me to that place in which I could receive the Holy Spirit, and since then he has disciplined me to make me more like his son, in the last thirty years I must have obeyed him, but what i remember more vividly is the times that I did not obey, I remember the disobedience because I mentally and physically resisted his urging, needless to say I regretted resisting him but I did, that goes to prove to me without a doubt that he urges you to do his will, but he does not take your will away.

 

[free spirit]

quote freespirit

I do not have a doctrine on anything, but I have an opinion, Jesus is the father and the father is Jesus, the holy spirit is a mixture of the two

The Father created Jesus (“the beginning of Gods creation Rev 3:14). Jesus began creating in place of His Father ((Rev 2:13) Antipas—in place of another), His God, therefore making Himself also a father. They have an espree de cor—one spirit in what they want to accomplish and do and what they think, they are one, like a husband and wife are one. The holy spirit is Jesus (1 John 2:1), the power of God, not the Father. Its no different when He says He and the Father are one and then pray that we also be one with Him and the Father

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Is this hard to understand? Ask yourself, does my opinion match up scripturally? If Jesus is the Father, how can Jesus say out of His own mouth that no one has seen or heard God and how can the Father die? Jesus can die and did die, the Father cant die. We can and will see Jesus but not the Father. With just those two things right there it destroys the trinity doctrine and your opinion. Don’t base things off your opinion base it off the scriptures.

In John 14:7 to 9, we read "If you had known me, you would have known my father also; from now on you know him, and have seen him. Philip said to him, Lord, show us the father, and it is enough for us. Jesus said to him, have i been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know me, Philip? he who has seen me has seen the father; how do you say show us the father."

That is why we must repent or change the character inherited from Adam and put on the Character of Christ.

No we inherited death, not sin. Our personality is to sin. That’s how God made us. Here is an email from someone. The answer is not mine and CAPS are the writers

Ephesians 4:22 to 24, "That, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self which is being corrupted in accordance with the lust of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth."
"the old self" is the Adam nature, "the new self" is Christ nature.
.

I do have my doubts on this one, For we read in Luke 9: 54 to 56, And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do you want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them? But he turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; for the son of man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."

It makes me wonder because the part I underlined is not in some translations but anyway there is a great lesson to be learned from Acts 5:1-11 and its about swearing to the Lord and not keeping it, let alone you are not to swear at all, but if you do it you must keep it. I do not doubt this passage at all, it corresponds perfectly to Christ command of not swearing at all.

But God has long suffering He is not quick to kill, sorry but what these verses say does not fit God character; to me they are an aberration.

In other words he abandoned him to his own flesh.
Yes he abandoned them to their own fleshly minds.

So are saying satan isn’t real? Just something in our minds? I hope not. Besides take the event of the flood. God is Love, but did He not bring the flood? Did he not promise to bring all kind of curses to the Israelite if they didn’t follow His commands etc etc. Remember only God can make war in righteousness and those He uses to do this or carry it out for Him are not doing “harm”.

The commands come from God the punishment come from the evil one, Job was protected by God, only when God took away the protection, the evil one had access to do harm to Job.

Or " you should know them by what they say" for the mouth speak from what is in their hearts."

Right so do you or do you not believe the scriptures I pointed out?

Yes because is all a matter of character, the closer your character is to that of Christ the closer you are to God. And what you believe is what shapes your character, so if you believe that God Kills people your character will readily accept the justification of killing.

That’s a spin on words. I know that God kills people because it’s a fact and He is justified in doing so because He makes life and can bring it back. That doesn’t mean I justify man in killing because I don’t. I know that God scourges His sons and daughters. Do that mean I endorse child abuse too? See what I am saying.

For God will not do what he has forbidden me to do, otherwise he would be a true hypocrite. But I know he is pure holiness he suffered death without a word of complain for me and you.

So is He a hypocrite when He says and He follows through with these threats

Ex 22:24 - and My anger will be kindled, and I will kill you with the sword, and your wives shall become widows and your children fatherless.

Re 2:23 'And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.

Of course I know the spiritual meaning of these but did He not follow through with the Exodus verse? God can do this because He has the power to bring back to life.

You do have a strange way of thinking about God, your Saviour, your heavenly father, you say, He can kill you because he can bring you back to life, that was what Abrahan thought, but God did not go through with that, why not? If God did that I would believe you.
I mean no offense but I think this about your believes. We read in 1 Timothy 6:3 - 4, "If anyone advocate a different doctrine, and does not agree with sound words those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicion,"
AK4 the key words are "conforming to godliness" so how do I conform to godliness if God is as you say? You do have a thing about words, and a morbid interest about controversial questions. I love you as a brother but what you say is not correct, my will is under his will, "no my will but your will be done" My Email address is in my profile please get in contact with me so I can send you that document.

 

[free spirit]

Grace teaches you. Technically yes you could say its His personality and technically you cant because the grace is of the Father. Even Jesus recieved this grace


Lu 2:40 - [In Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek] The Child continued to grow and become strong, increasing in wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.
Joh 1:14 - [In Context|Read Chapter|Original Greek] And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
It wasnt His personality that was upon Him, it was His Fathers/ His God. Grace teaches you Jesus and His Fathers "personality" so you can choose to do His works.

You forget that he came as a man, and in John 1: 17, we read " for the law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ." so in other words, the human holy character was realize through Jesus Christ. And that Holy Character is the gospel of peace we have with God, thanks to our Lord Jesus Christ.
John 16:13 - 14, "But when he, the spirit of truth, comes. he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative, but whatever he hears, he will speak; and he will disclose to you what is to come. he shall glorify me; for he shall take of mine, and shall disclose it to you."

 

[AK4]

As I said once before, in retrospect I know that God was working to get me to that place in which I could receive the Holy Spirit, and since then he has disciplined me to make me more like his son, in the last thirty years I must have obeyed him, but what i remember more vividly is the times that I did not obey, I remember the disobedience because I mentally and physically resisted his urging, needless to say I regretted resisting him but I did, that goes to prove to me without a doubt that he urges you to do his will, but he does not take your will away.

Correct. We always have a will, but its never free. It never was and never can be. Its not just a scriptural fact , its a scientific fact. God influences your will, works in you to do what He has purposed for you. The ingeniousness of it is that He made it that we feel as if we are doing it all on our own but the reality is that we are not.

 

[free spirit]

Correct. We always have a will, but its never free. It never was and never can be. Its not just a scriptural fact , its a scientific fact. God influences your will, works in you to do what He has purposed for you. The ingeniousness of it is that He made it that we feel as if we are doing it all on our own but the reality is that we are not.

Only an Hollywood imagination can came up with that idea, if it is as you say, I am the one that got away to freedom, with God's blessings.

 

[AK4]

quote freespirit
Quote:
In John 14:7 to 9, we read "If you had known me, you would have known my father also; from now on you know him, and have seen him. Philip said to him, Lord, show us the father, and it is enough for us. Jesus said to him, have i been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know me, Philip? he who has seen me has seen the father; how do you say show us the father."


Yes, Jesus is a father. He is the father of Israel (also of all creation), but He is not THE Father. Remember, Jesus is the beginning of creation right, He is the beginning of the Fathers creation. Let me explain it another way.

Why is the Father (the invisible, no one can see or hear at anytime (not Jesus)) a father? What does it take for anything to be a father? You have to have children. The Father became a father once He created Jesus. Jesus is His first born. Jesus, being the Fathers’ first born, became a father once He started creating. Yes when you see Jesus, you see the father because He is your father because He created you. The Father is the Father because through Jesus, his first born—the beginning of creation, He created you. Before everything there was just the Father, next came Jesus, next the angels, next man, next woman. The Father and Jesus are not the same “entity”. You got to get this trinity idea out of your thinking to be able to see this. Jesus is called God, we are called gods. The Father is spirit and everything comes out of Him.

"the old self" is the Adam nature, "the new self" is Christ nature.

Okay, lets truly address this character thing. Christ addressed this firmly

Matthew 7:21-29
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (lawlessness).

Do you see here where Jesus acknowledges those who actually are doing many wonderful works (basically having “His character”) yet Jesus never knew them because apparently they still work lawlessness? And guess what, freewill is lawlessness. It follows no laws, no nothing, not even God. If you only knew how these verses show you who this "the man of sin/man of lawlessness " or "the son of perdition [destruction]." Paul mentions in 2 Thes 2:3 and who and what is the beast of Revelations.

But anyways you cant forget this

Ps 119:160 The sum (all of it) of thy word is truth

All of it combined is truth so the verse you quote and the verse I quote put together is truth, but what you are not seeing is even those who do many wonderful works (claiming to have the character of Jesus) still work iniquity or lawlessness. And Jesus says only “those who do the will of my Father” shall enter the kingdom. You cant have the character of Jesus and still believe in this free will mess because Jesus’ character always showed how unfree His will was of the Fathers and that it was always The Father who “worked in Him BOTH to will and to do”.

 

[AK4]

Quote freespirit
But God has long suffering He is not quick to kill, sorry but what these verses say does not fit God character; to me they are an aberration.
Remember “the sum of thy word is truth”

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

1 Samuel 2:6 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.

Eze 18:32 - For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Eze 33:11 - Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

2Pe 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance
Now was it quickly that these people died? How old were they? How long do you think they took to think of not giving all the money to the apostles? How many other sins piled up in their lives till God killed them? How many years do you think God “longsuffered” with them up to that point? See my point? Be careful on calling true scripture an aberration
The commands come from God the punishment come from the evil one, Job was protected by God, only when God took away the protection, the evil one had access to do harm to Job.

Is not “All of God”? Didn’t Job say “the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away”? Didn’t satan do all those things to him yet Job says “the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away”? Didn’t God say that what Job had said of Him is right? Is Satan allowed to work independently of God? Does not God have control over satan? How many verses shall I quote to show you God Himself punishes people? Look at what Eli'hu (Jobs friend) said to him

Job 35:14 How much less when you say that you do not see him, that the case is before him, and you are waiting for him! 15 And now, because his anger does not punish, and he does not greatly heed transgression, 16 Job opens his mouth in empty talk, he multiplies words without knowledge."

Is this not what you are doing? Didn’t the Lord say that what Job said is right and the friends were wrong? You cant just pick out verses to support your view and disregard the rest of scripture. Things must be precept upon precept, line upon line.

You do have a strange way of thinking about God, your Saviour, your heavenly father, you say, He can kill you because he can bring you back to life, that was what Abrahan thought, but God did not go through with that, why not? If God did that I would believe you.

The truth is strange at times when you don’t understand something, no doubt. To me everytime I learn more of His truth, it glorifies Him even more. To know that He can kill and make alive is a wonderful truth. It shows His power and Sovereignty. To know that He made the promise that “it made for men once to die” further glorifies this truth and Him. To know that some (hopefully I am one of them) will only go through the one death of just dying spiritually and not go through a physical death further glorifies Him and makes “me” “work” harder to make it into the first Resurrection.

Think about it. Abraham is considered righteous and he thought/knew that about God. I think I am not wrong for it if Abraham wasn’t either.