Do you understand the New Testament

[AK4]

quote freespirit
I once read in the newspaper that this believer sacrificed his son to God, in the likeness of Abrahan and Isac, but this believer actually killed his son, he claimed God made him do it, and according to you he is right, he is telling the truth; unless I missed something you said.


Technically yes and no. We are basically sinning machines. God will bring about circumstances where we will choose one thing or another, yet at the same time He will bring about circumstances where you can do nothing but what you chose. If your heart and mind is evil you, you will choose evil, but if your heart and mind is good you will choose good. God is the one who gives faith and the ability to do good but by our nature (the way He created us) we without His help will always choose bad. Hence “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” “None seek God” “there is none good, no not one”.
See God didn’t make this guy do it, this guy volunteered through the influences of satan, the world and his own heart and willful ignorance (most likely) to Gods Word. Its something like the Prodigal Son parable—that son wanted to oblige himself in whatever so God will “give them over to a reprobate mind” and oblige them. Basically (for that guy in the newspaper) he wanted to believe that he actually had to sacrifice his son for God, so God let him think the way he wanted so this guy will be judge for that. But see the flip side to it is that God is the one responsible for giving faith, knowledge and spiritual understanding so He knows that He is ultimately responsible for this guys actions so….God, one day, will give this guy spiritual understanding and he will see his reflection in the pig slop (his beliefs) and notice that God did oblige him in what he wanted to believe and finally come back to God and say “I have sinned” or I now see the error in my beliefs and ways.
So think on this same parable with free will—One will think and belief they do things by this “most marvelous gift” given by God their own freewill,. Okay God will oblige you and give you over to that mind set and you will be judged by it. You think you came to Christ on your own and have the ability and faith to follow His commands on your own, able to do good on your own etc etc yet if you fail in any one way ---since it was by your power and free will--- you will be held accountable because by your own beliefs you admit you have failed and sinned. You admit that by your own power you can follow Christ but have failed. God will bring about circumstances eventually where you will see your reflection in the pig slop and you will see your sin in not acknowledging that without God “you can do nothing” and that you cant come to Christ on your own and have the ability and faith to follow His commands on your own, able to do good on your own etc etc. it is “God who works in you both to will and to do” and that God is Sovereign and that you don’t have free will/choice/moral agency-- an ability to freely do or make choices independent of God—that has a power able to thwart what God has purposed.
Maybe this verse will help you think on this free will
Deu 8:17-18 You may say to yourselves, "I became wealthy (became rich by coming to Christ and all that that entails) because of my own ability and strength." (Sounds like the doctrine of free will here) But remember the LORD your God is the one who makes you wealthy (Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: Re 3:17)
.

Yes in winter I put on winter garments because it is cold, but if I decided to freeze to death I am free to do just that. I surrendered my life to Christ when he called me, to do anything else would have been complete madness, but the faculty to do that was present in me just the same.


Remember that reprobate mind thing? And You can not be surrendered and still believe in free will. It’s a contradiction. Either its you sitting the temple of God or it Christ. "to him that overcomes" Christ will grant to sit with Him on this throne which is in you.

I believe that the gospel is Jesus' life, the trinity is an attempt to explain God's form; therefore it is not part of the gospel, but it is only human speculation.

That’s right, human speculation, theory that is not supported by scripture. Yes technically the gospel is Jesus’ life but deeper it about the kingdom of God. Do you know what the Kingdom of God is? Just curious

Like I said above his sons an daughters he discipline for their good, so that we may share his holiness. The rest I do not know.

You do know. Im pretty sure you’ve read the bible. Ive shown you just some of those scriptures pertaining to this. Honestly its just you not believing the scriptures. Im not saying this to be harsh but if its true its true. Do you deny this plain statement by God?
Isa 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

It may be hard to accept and understand at first and you may have to “sell some of your possessions” to gain even more knowledge of Christ but think about it---is it worth it? I will pray for you.

God is selecting and choosing his children and hears among st his creation

Sorta. God has already selected and chosen predestinated those who will be the kingdom of God. He already knows who will be in it, we don’t.

 

[AK4]

quote freespirit
All wisdom and knowledge is in Christ, those outside of Christ think as you say.

I agree

I am thinking spiritually; No, I am living spiritually because I do not need to by-set my father doings for I know that he loves me, and I have full confidence in his goodness, he cannot do evil, and he chooses his children according to the content in their hearts. He is not capricious nor unjust, for he desires everyone to came to the knowledge of the truth.

So are you saying you are content with knowing that Christ loves you and that is it and all you need to know?

"Is the hardest doctrine for most to let go" but to let it go you must have free will, don't you?


Not a free will but a will that can be influenced by God to choose to let go of this God defying and denying power. Man loves the idea that they are the captains of their fate and destiny

I do not worry about it, nor do I need to know, but what I do is this, I rest in the Lord

You should because if God is truly in control, you don’t know for sure what He has in store for you. Will you make into the Kingdom of God in this age or will you have to go through judgment and wrath to make into the Kingdom. Since He is the one who gives faith and the ability to perservere, will He give you the faith and perseverance to overcome until the end. Yes I believe I have enter into His rest because I know I have freedom to will and to do of my good pleasure and that the works that I do do are His works not mine

 

[AK4]

To freespirit

How do I reconcile God created and using evil.

I realize that this life should be a learning experience. The bad things that happened in the past, present and future I should be learning from. The bad things that happened to them in the OT were for our learning and were for an example. There are a lot of things that were bad that happened to me in my life, now able to look back, has served for a noble purpose to bringing me into repentance and able to actually follow His commands. Some where really bad that if I didn’t know any better now, I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. But now I know that if that (evil) is what is necessary for one to come to the knowledge of the truth and repentance then so be it, let it happen.

As parents we wish our kids will learn without having to discipline them harshly, but sometimes it becomes necessary even sometimes letting them wallow in their pig slop. God does the same with us but what He is doing is on a grander scale. Believe me what we go through, Jesus is some way or fashion had to go through also even before He emptied Himself into a human, even before the world was (John 17:5). Believe me its all in the scriptures.

The Book of Life is the Book of THE LIFE of the Lamb (Rev 13:8). The scriptures is this Book. “As Jesus is so are we” “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me” Abide in Me, and I in you" (John 15:4). etc etc. If our name is written in this Book (Jesus) then we are also written in this same Book. We are basically reading about ourselves or better stated we are reading a book full of parables of a giant parable of how God is creating us into His image—“to be like Him”.

Therefore the one of the ways I reconcile God created evil and is using evil is that it IS for a grand purpose and its all written in His Word. And since His Word is Truth (John 14:6) and I have a thirst for the truth in everything. If it a truth and its in His Word (translated right and doesn’t contradict in any other precept) either I will accept it and ask God to give me understanding or become part of that category of people where God says “you despise My Word”. And we know the outcome for them.

Basically if its true I know other choice but to accept it. Either it will in this age or it will be in the Judgment age. I prefer now.

I hope this helps

 

[free spirit]

To ak4

quote freespirit
i once read in the newspaper that this believer sacrificed his son to god, in the likeness of abrahan and isac, but this believer actually killed his son, he claimed god made him do it, and according to you he is right, he is telling the truth; unless i missed something you said.


technically yes and no. We are basically sinning machines. God will bring about circumstances where we will choose one thing or another, yet at the same time he will bring about circumstances where you can do nothing but what you chose. If your heart and mind is evil you, you will choose evil, but if your heart and mind is good you will choose good. God is the one who gives faith and the ability to do good but by our nature (the way he created us) we without his help will always choose bad. Hence “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god” “none seek god” “there is none good, no not one”.
see god didn’t make this guy do it, this guy volunteered through the influences of satan, the world and his own heart and willful ignorance (most likely) to gods word. Its something like the prodigal son parable—that son wanted to oblige himself in whatever so god will “give them over to a reprobate mind” and oblige them. Basically (for that guy in the newspaper) he wanted to believe that he actually had to sacrifice his son for god, so god let him think the way he wanted so this guy will be judge for that. But see the flip side to it is that god is the one responsible for giving faith, knowledge and spiritual understanding so he knows that he is ultimately responsible for this guys actions so….god, one day, will give this guy spiritual understanding and he will see his reflection in the pig slop (his beliefs) and notice that god did oblige him in what he wanted to believe and finally come back to god and say “i have sinned” or i now see the error in my beliefs and ways.
so think on this same parable with free will—one will think and belief they do things by this “most marvelous gift” given by god their own freewill,. Okay god will oblige you and give you over to that mind set and you will be judged by it. You think you came to christ on your own and have the ability and faith to follow his commands on your own, able to do good on your own etc etc yet if you fail in any one way ---since it was by your power and free will--- you will be held accountable because by your own beliefs you admit you have failed and sinned. You admit that by your own power you can follow christ but have failed. God will bring about circumstances eventually where you will see your reflection in the pig slop and you will see your sin in not acknowledging that without god “you can do nothing” and that you cant come to christ on your own and have the ability and faith to follow his commands on your own, able to do good on your own etc etc. It is “god who works in you both to will and to do” and that god is sovereign and that you don’t have free will/choice/moral agency-- an ability to freely do or make choices independent of god—that has a power able to thwart what god has purposed.
maybe this verse will help you think on this free will
deu 8:17-18 you may say to yourselves, "i became wealthy (became rich by coming to christ and all that that entails) because of my own ability and strength." (sounds like the doctrine of free will here) but remember the lord your god is the one who makes you wealthy (because thou sayest, i am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: re 3:17)

i am a simple person therefore i believe that the formative years of my life and character, was shaped by my parents love and discipline, or lack of it; my teachers, and all who came into contact with me, for they all left something of themselves unprinted in my soul. So in a way we are reproduced according to our kind, you can see this in the character of different nationality, their religion, their history, their culture; are responsible in shaping the foundation of that man character.
then there is me who select from that rich smörgåsbord into which i was borne, and then there is god who select those who have made the right selection from their smörgåsbord, those the lord call to became his children.
john 1:12, "but as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become children of god, even to those who believe in his name. Who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of god."
you should consider that we are under a different testament, as you know the new testament has changed many things. In the old testament they could not became perfect, but with the coming of Christ we are called to perfection. All sons of god have to become perfect for their father is perfect.

.

yes in winter i put on winter garments because it is cold, but if i decided to freeze to death i am free to do just that. I surrendered my life to christ when he called me, to do anything else would have been complete madness, but the faculty to do that was present in me just the same.
remember that reprobate mind thing? And you can not be surrendered and still believe in free will. It’s a contradiction. Either its you sitting the temple of god or it christ. "to him that overcomes" christ will grant to sit with him on this throne which is in you.

If you have repented and became perfect you are siting with him on the throne of your heart, For it is written "the spirit of prophesy is subject to the prophet." And the actions and words of the Apostles were in and out of the Spirit.

i believe that the gospel is Jesus' life, the trinity is an attempt to explain god's form; therefore it is not part of the gospel, but it is only human speculation.
that’s right, human speculation, theory that is not supported by scripture. Yes technically the gospel is jesus’ life but deeper it about the kingdom of god. Do you know what the kingdom of god is? Just curious

The kingdom of God is: " it is not longer I who live bu Christ lives in me."

like i said above his sons an daughters he discipline for their good, so that we may share his holiness. The rest i do not know.
you do know. Im pretty sure you’ve read the bible. Ive shown you just some of those scriptures pertaining to this. Honestly its just you not believing the scriptures. Im not saying this to be harsh but if its true its true. Do you deny this plain statement by god?
isa 45:7 - i form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the lord do all these things.

It is Old Testament which should have disappeared long ago. as the New Testament clearly says.

it may be hard to accept and understand at first and you may have to “sell some of your possessions” to gain even more knowledge of christ but think about it---is it worth it? I will pray for you.

There is no connection between possessions and gaining understanding, as the book of Philemon indirectly shows.
My heart is in the New Testament; there God's will and our Lord Jesus Christ is revealed in full "3D" Colors.

 

[free spirit]

quote freespirit
All wisdom and knowledge is in Christ, those outside of Christ think as you say.

I agree

I am thinking spiritually; No, I am living spiritually because I do not need to by-set my father doings for I know that he loves me, and I have full confidence in his goodness, he cannot do evil, and he chooses his children according to the content in their hearts. He is not capricious nor unjust, for he desires everyone to came to the knowledge of the truth.
So are you saying you are content with knowing that Christ loves you and that is it and all you need to know?

No it is not all I need to know, for I also need to change my ways into his ways, and I can only do that through Christ that leads me, encourages me, is patience with me, He is the only one that can bring me to perfection. without the spirit of the Lord in me I am lost, I must summit my will to his will willingly.

"Is the hardest doctrine for most to let go" but to let it go you must have free will, don't you?
Not a free will but a will that can be influenced by God to choose to let go of this God defying and denying power. Man loves the idea that they are the captains of their fate and destiny

Those men are under the letter of the law, who seek to became perfect by works.

I do not worry about it, nor do I need to know, but what I do is this, I rest in the Lord
You should because if God is truly in control, you don’t know for sure what He has in store for you.
Will you make into the Kingdom of God in this age or will you have to go through judgment and wrath to make into the Kingdom.
Since He is the one who gives faith and the ability to perservere, will He give you the faith and perseverance to overcome until the end.
Yes I believe I have enter into His rest because I know I have freedom to will and to do of my good pleasure and that the works that I do do are His works not mine.

I know that God has given me a teaching ministry, I also know that I am an uneducated person therefore all I have is from him.
I have already been judged faithful, I am on my home run, at the end of it I will be given the authority and confidence to do his will.

So if you have entered his rest like me why is so difficult for us to find common ground?
I think we have some flesh left on the bone to deal with.

 

[AK4]

quote freespirit
If you have repented and became perfect you are siting with him on the throne of your heart, For it is written "the spirit of prophesy is subject to the prophet." And the actions and words of the Apostles were in and out of the Spirit.

No one is perfected in this age. That’s why we are to overcome and endure till the end. Remember the verb tenses I showed you in the greek? The mistranslations of some of these bibles have brought about this doctrine of once saved always saved. Until the resurrection no one is perfected.

The kingdom of God is: " it is not longer I who live bu Christ lives in me."

Yes, but the what is it? Or to be more specific, what makes up the Kingdom? I will give you a hint---its mentioned in 1 Peter.

It is Old Testament which should have disappeared long ago. as the New Testament clearly says.

You cant do that. The Word of God is Jesus. That’s old and the new. Really there is no old or new testament, just the Word of God. Truths told in the old are still universal. Jesus is not just the new, Hes both. Its all one. When Jesus says in the OT He is the Lord it is still true in the New. When Jesus warns in Revelations that “those who take away from this book”, it applies to all the Word of God not just Revelations. You are doing that by what you are saying.

There is no connection between possessions and gaining understanding, as the book of Philemon indirectly shows.
My heart is in the New Testament; there God's will and our Lord Jesus Christ is revealed in full "3D" Colors.

Yes there is. And Paul gives us a good example


Philippians 3:4-8 - 4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Paul sold all his possessions, all that he thought he knew (the jews religion and other things (side note: in the jews religion the free will doctrine is heavy and if you notice Paul really set out in his letters to prove that that doctrine is false) for the excellency of gaining understanding of the knowledge of Christ.

If your heart is only in the NT then you are admitting that your heart is only half into Christ. In the NT Jesus came also to reveal/unfold His Father, His God. There is so much more you are missing if you ignore the OT about who and what Jesus is.

 

[AK4]

Quote freespirit
No it is not all I need to know, for I also need to change my ways into his ways, and I can only do that through Christ that leads me, encourages me, is patience with me, He is the only one that can bring me to perfection. without the spirit of the Lord in me I am lost, I must summit my will to his will willingly.

How do you think satan has deceived the whole world? Do you think it will be by what all these dooms day prophets prophecy? Really would any one be deceived by that? No. How then how has he deceived the whole world where everyone is “comfortable” with it? and remember this phrase “do the deceive know they are deceived”? Almost Everyone everywhere is deceived by this free will thing and have them worshipping themselves rather than God. And almost everyone will fight tooth and nail for this god/idol in their heart.

Those men are under the letter of the law, who seek to became perfect by works.

Not just them, Christians who claim to be free from the letter of the law are just as bad sucked into this deception. Once one can see out of this deception you see how clever and subtle and PERSISTENT this deception is. Even the elect was once deceived by this. How does Christ say it--- For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.. 23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

I know that God has given me a teaching ministry, I also know that I am an uneducated person therefore all I have is from him.
I have already been judged faithful, I am on my home run, at the end of it I will be given the authority and confidence to do his will.
So if you have entered his rest like me why is so difficult for us to find common ground?
I think we have some flesh left on the bone to deal with.

I pray constantly that I am and will stay in His rest. For I know that it is possible for many to fall away and leave their first love. I will be truthfully honest with you, the reason we aren’t directly on the same common ground because there are still some catholic and protestant doctrines you still hold on to. The once saved always saved is pretty much protestant and the trinity is catholic and free will—well that covers every religion even those who don’t believe in God. BUT I do know that God gives to some more talents than to others, some 10, 5, 2 or 1. So I know there are some who will have more understanding than others and some who have less. But that is why the one who has more talents is to help his fellow brother (not all who claim that Jesus is Son of God or is Lord or is Christ is your brother in Gods eyes) who has less talents increase the talents that God gave them. Im not saying I have more talents than you for you may be more knowledgeable in some areas I am, but there are some things I know i am on solid ground and God willing, wont be deceived on again. That’s the beauty of it and the wisdom of it all, being part of Gods plan---we have to be deceived first to know what is Truth and I tell ya, I was thoroughly deceived on the trinity and freewill doctrines beforehand.

I wanna say that there is common ground and there is, but there aint in some ways. Remember what I was saying to sojourner about the called and the called AND chosen, the few an d many, and those who build their house on the sand and those who build their house on the rock. There are Christians and those who come out of Christendom—the many called (Christians) and the few chosen (the elect).

"Church" [Greek: ekklesia]means "a calling out."
"Called" [Greek: kletos] means "invited." The word called is found over six hundred times in Scripture, but the word kletos appears only about a dozen times in Scriptures and always refers to those whom God has invited.
"Chosen" [Greek: eklektos] means "select, chosen out; by implication favorite."
Translated "chosen" sixteen times and "elect" seven times.

 

[Bick]

:angel2:
Yep I have been here for a fiew days now but I have allready being wounded, it is war out there the ardest of them are the religious devotees, that is not new I guess because only religious devottes will kill a holy man like 2000 years ago.
Well I am Mr. averige nothing special eccept that I understand the New Terstament and that gets me into trouble all the time. Yep they even use my poor spelling to get at me. I am allergic to pain so if it doesn't get to hot I stay.
love you all :cheer:

MY COMMENTS: Welcome. I, too, believe that with the guidance of some excellent Bible teachers I understand the Scriptures. If you cannot be on this link yet, we could certainly fellowship in the Word on our emails. Mine is [email protected].

Blessings, Bick. 2 Tim. 2:15.

 

[free spirit]

quote freespirit
If you have repented and became perfect you are siting with him on the throne of your heart, For it is written "the spirit of prophesy is subject to the prophet." And the actions and words of the Apostles were in and out of the Spirit.

No one is perfected in this age. That’s why we are to overcome and endure till the end. Remember the verb tenses I showed you in the greek? The mistranslations of some of these bibles have brought about this doctrine of once saved always saved. Until the resurrection no one is perfected.
No, we drift in and out of the Spirit of God, we can act in the spirit, and we can act in the flesh. But at all times we are under the protection of the Holy Spirit.

The kingdom of God is: " it is not longer I who live bu Christ lives in me."
Yes, but the what is it? Or to be more specific, what makes up the Kingdom? I will give you a hint---its mentioned in 1 Peter.
I have read 1 Peter, and it is all about how a Christian should behave.

It is Old Testament which should have disappeared long ago. as the New Testament clearly says.

You cant do that. The Word of God is Jesus. That’s old and the new. Really there is no old or new testament, just the Word of God. Truths told in the old are still universal. Jesus is not just the new, Hes both. Its all one. When Jesus says in the OT He is the Lord it is still true in the New. When Jesus warns in Revelations that “those who take away from this book”, it applies to all the Word of God not just Revelations. You are doing that by what you are saying.
The Old Testament is a shadow of Christ, the New Testament is a 3D presentation of Christ, the printed word is not Christ, the printed word contains errors and deliberate lies, But the living Word is holy and he is in you to guide you and protect you, from those that seek to deceive you, and from your flesh.

There is no connection between possessions and gaining understanding, as the book of Philemon indirectly shows.
My heart is in the New Testament; there God's will and our Lord Jesus Christ is revealed in full "3D" Colors.
Yes there is. And Paul gives us a good example
Philippians 3:4-8 - 4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Paul sold all his possessions, all that he thought he knew (the jews religion and other things (side note: in the jews religion the free will doctrine is heavy and if you notice Paul really set out in his letters to prove that that doctrine is false) for the excellency of gaining understanding of the knowledge of Christ.
Some are called to became dependent on the Lord for all their need, but they are only a few, we all are called to dump all false doctrines and embrace Christ Holy character.

If your heart is only in the NT then you are admitting that your heart is only half into Christ. In the NT Jesus came also to reveal/unfold His Father, His God. There is so much more you are missing if you ignore the OT about who and what Jesus is.

All I am missing is the theatrical ply, Christ is a person and he does not come in you in half measures.

 

[free spirit]

Quote freespirit
No it is not all I need to know, for I also need to change my ways into his ways, and I can only do that through Christ that leads me, encourages me, is patience with me, He is the only one that can bring me to perfection. without the spirit of the Lord in me I am lost, I must summit my will to his will willingly.

How do you think satan has deceived the whole world? Do you think it will be by what all these dooms day prophets prophecy? Really would any one be deceived by that? No. How then how has he deceived the whole world where everyone is “comfortable” with it? and remember this phrase “do the deceive know they are deceived”? Almost Everyone everywhere is deceived by this free will thing and have them worshipping themselves rather than God. And almost everyone will fight tooth and nail for this god/idol in their heart.

I rest in the Lord, only He can move me, all I know is what Jesus character is, and I imitate that to the best of my ability. The rest is superfluous.

 

[free spirit]

To freespirit

How do I reconcile God created and using evil.

I realize that this life should be a learning experience. The bad things that happened in the past, present and future I should be learning from. The bad things that happened to them in the OT were for our learning and were for an example. There are a lot of things that were bad that happened to me in my life, now able to look back, has served for a noble purpose to bringing me into repentance and able to actually follow His commands. Some where really bad that if I didn’t know any better now, I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. But now I know that if that (evil) is what is necessary for one to come to the knowledge of the truth and repentance then so be it, let it happen.

As parents we wish our kids will learn without having to discipline them harshly, but sometimes it becomes necessary even sometimes letting them wallow in their pig slop. God does the same with us but what He is doing is on a grander scale. Believe me what we go through, Jesus is some way or fashion had to go through also even before He emptied Himself into a human, even before the world was (John 17:5). Believe me its all in the scriptures.

Evil and good always was in God, By creating the law which is the expression of his will, God created discipline, which seem evil at the time of its application, but after you submit to it, you realize that its application was good, for it has caused a desirable change in you.

The Book of Life is the Book of THE LIFE of the Lamb (Rev 13:8). The scriptures is this Book. “As Jesus is so are we” “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me” Abide in Me, and I in you" (John 15:4). etc etc. If our name is written in this Book (Jesus) then we are also written in this same Book. We are basically reading about ourselves or better stated we are reading a book full of parables of a giant parable of how God is creating us into His image—“to be like Him”.

Your perception is an intimate experience of belonging, it is a blessing to you and for you.

Therefore the one of the ways I reconcile God created evil and is using evil is that it IS for a grand purpose and its all written in His Word. And since His Word is Truth (John 14:6) and I have a thirst for the truth in everything. If it a truth and its in His Word (translated right and doesn’t contradict in any other precept) either I will accept it and ask God to give me understanding or become part of that category of people where God says “you despise My Word”. And we know the outcome for them.

We all despise lies, truth is not only the opposite of falsehood it is also the opposite of evil.

Basically if its true I know other choice but to accept it. Either it will in this age or it will be in the Judgment age. I prefer now.

Basically it is a choice for holiness, I also prefer to have it now.
we have the same hope
We read in 2nd Peter 3 – 10 to 14, “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the Earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, on account of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning with intense heat! But according to his promise we are looking for new Heavens and a new Earth, in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by him in peace, spotless and blameless.”
As you can see holiness of character is more important than knowledge
I hope this helps yes so do I

 

[AK4]

quote freespirit

The kingdom of God is: " it is not longer I who live bu Christ lives in me."
I have read 1 Peter, and it is all about how a Christian should behave.

The Kingdom of God is the same thing mentioned in 1 Peter and in Exodus and in Obadiah and in 2 Thessalonians and the same thing mentioned in Revelations and they tell who Jesus returns with and what is the Kingdom. How a Christian should behave is not telling the meat of the Gospel.


The Old Testament is a shadow of Christ, the New Testament is a 3D presentation of Christ, the printed word is not Christ, the printed word contains errors and deliberate lies, But the living Word is holy and he is in you to guide you and protect you, from those that seek to deceive you, and from your flesh.


No the printed isn’t Christ but it speaks and testifies of Him and is a witness. And if it was never written then you only imagine the more corrupt the stories would be. And the original inspired written words are what speaks of Him, not these translations.

Some are called to became dependent on the Lord for all their need, but they are only a few, we all are called to dump all false doctrines and embrace Christ Holy character.

Only Some are called to be dependant on the Lord for all their need? No everyone is. “Without Me you cant do nothing” I believe that applies to everyone everywhere
All I am missing is the theatrical ply, Christ is a person and he does not come in you in half measures.

We are given a deposit right now. In no way have we received it all at once. He gives you as much as you can handle at a time, not all at once. You can see this through His Apostles and their writings. We receive Jesus but not


I rest in the Lord, only He can move me, all I know is what Jesus character is, and I imitate that to the best of my ability. The rest is superfluous.

Okay, now with that statement you make it seem as if only the NT reflects His character as if the OT is not Jesus calling Himself “thy Lord your God” but rather it’s the Father, and that is what the damage of the trinity doctrine does because if you don’t know that Jesus is the God of the OT and the one speaking then you will only know A FRACTION of the one you want to call Lord.

Your perception is an intimate experience of belonging, it is a blessing to you and for you.


Its not just for me, its for all. The plan of salvation is the same for everyone. Yes I belong to Christ. I was bought and paid for.
We all despise lies, truth is not only the opposite of falsehood it is also the opposite of evil.

Okay with that in mind if you believe in something that in not truth then you believe in an evil right? Think about that one in regard to things like the trinity and freewill.


As you can see holiness of character is more important than knowledge


It’s the knowledge of Jesus Christ and of His commands that should bring you into holiness of character. Its not the other way around. The more and more knowledge I obtain (am given by the Lord) the more I know what He commands of me and the holier I can become. If I am deceived into believing a falsehood that makes me believe I am worshipping Him but in actuality I am worshipping a lie (idol of the heart) then as Christ said “they worship Me in vain”

Think about it---If I worship Jesus as part of the trinity (which is a lie as I have shown already) as you said above “truth is not only the opposite of falsehood it is also the opposite of evil” then am I not worshipping an evil? Am I not worshipping Him in vain which is really not worshipping Him at all but worshipping a lie, an idol of the heart? And if i dont have the knowledge to even know who my Christ/Saviour/God is how could i even know what He commands so i can have holiness of character? Yes on the surface you may know the milk of what He commands but you wont know the meat on how "your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

 

[free spirit]

quote freespirit

The kingdom of God is: " it is not longer I who live bu Christ lives in me."
I have read 1 Peter, and it is all about how a Christian should behave.

The Kingdom of God is the same thing mentioned in 1 Peter and in Exodus and in Obadiah and in 2 Thessalonians and the same thing mentioned in Revelations and they tell who Jesus returns with and what is the Kingdom. How a Christian should behave is not telling the meat of the Gospel.

If my character bear witness that I am in Christ, than the life of Christ is indeed in me. and with him came all wisdom and knowledge, so what am I missing?

The Old Testament is a shadow of Christ, the New Testament is a 3D presentation of Christ, the printed word is not Christ, the printed word contains errors and deliberate lies, But the living Word is holy and he is in you to guide you and protect you, from those that seek to deceive you, and from your own flesh.

No the printed isn’t Christ but it speaks and testifies of Him and is a witness. And if it was never written then you only imagine the more corrupt the stories would be. And the original inspired written words are what speaks of Him, not these translations.

Some are called to became dependent on the Lord for all their need, but they are only a few, we all are called to dump all false doctrines and embrace Christ Holy character.

Yes the printed word is a witness, but it is written in John 5:39 - 40, "you search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of me; and you are unwilling to come to me, that you may have life."
So you see, you need to live his life which is exposed in the scriptures. In other words be a doer of the word and not only a hearer.

Only Some are called to be dependent on the Lord for all their need? No everyone is.
“Without Me you cant do nothing” I believe that applies to everyone everywhere

No everyone, for some are called to preach full time the rest has to support them the letter that Paul wrote to Philemon is clear on the matter.

All I am missing is the theatrical ply, Christ is a person and he does not come in you in half measures.

We are given a deposit right now. In no way have we received it all at once. He gives you as much as you can handle at a time, not all at once. You can see this through His Apostles and their writings. We receive Jesus but not

Jesus character cannot be given in parts, but we are given the gift of the spirit in parts with which we give service to our brothers and sisters read 1 Corinthians chapters 12, 13 and 14.

I rest in the Lord, only He can move me, all I know is what Jesus character is, and I imitate that to the best of my ability. The rest is superfluous.

Okay, now with that statement you make it seem as if only the NT reflects His character as if the OT is not Jesus calling Himself “thy Lord your God” but rather it’s the Father, and that is what the damage of the trinity doctrine does because if you don’t know that Jesus is the God of the OT and the one speaking then you will only know A FRACTION of the one you want to call Lord.

No the OT is a shadow of Christ, on the other hand the NT present Christ in a 3D color of him, so I am happy to stay in the NT because I can see him clearly.

Your perception is an intimate experience of belonging, it is a blessing to you and for you.
Its not just for me, its for all. The plan of salvation is the same for everyone. Yes I belong to Christ. I was bought and paid for.

We are also treated as individuals by him.

We all despise lies, truth is not only the opposite of falsehood it is also the opposite of evil.

Okay with that in mind if you believe in something that in not truth then you believe in an evil right? Think about that one in regard to things like the trinity and freewill.

If that lie that you believe does not effect your heavenly character it is not doing any harm, it is better not to have it but...

As you can see holiness of character is more important than knowledge
It’s the knowledge of Jesus Christ and of His commands that should bring you into holiness of character. Its not the other way around. The more and more knowledge I obtain (am given by the Lord) the more I know what He commands of me and the holier I can become. If I am deceived into believing a falsehood that makes me believe I am worshipping Him but in actuality I am worshipping a lie (idol of the heart) then as Christ said “they worship Me in vain”

we read in 1 Corinthians 13: 2 to 3, "and if i have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if i have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, i am nothing. and if i give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if i deliver my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing."
As you can see LOVE is sovereign, because it is the character of CHRIST, our LORD.

Think about it---If I worship Jesus as part of the trinity (which is a lie as I have shown already) as you said above “truth is not only the opposite of falsehood it is also the opposite of evil”
then am I not worshipping an evil? Am I not worshipping Him in vain which is really not worshipping Him at all but worshipping a lie, an idol of the heart? And if i dont have the knowledge to even know who my Christ/Saviour/God is how could i even know what He commands so i can have holiness of character? Yes on the surface you may know the milk of what He commands but you wont know the meat on how "your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Believing does not necessarily miens warship, like those who believe in Jesus
in-vain. Yes they believe in him but they are unwilling to change their fleshly character. therefore they worship him in-vain.

 

[free spirit]

TO AK4

After much searching I do agree with you on this point, that Christ come to save the world from death.
We read in Romans 5: 17 to 21, "For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the one, Jesus Christ. so then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to ALL MEN.
for as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one the many will be made righteous. and the LAW CAME in that the transgression might increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more.that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our lord."

As i said before the LAW caused evil to increase, but because we fear the consequences of the law we have learned obedience, so through the suffering in obedience the grace of God is increased in us.
We read in 1Peter 2: 21 to 23, " for you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in his steps, who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in his mouth; and while being reviled, he did not revile in return; while suffering, he uttered no threats, but kept entrusting himself to him who judges righteously."
We read in 1 Timothy 4: 8 to 10, "godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come. it is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance. for it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living god, WHO IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN, BUT ESPECIALLY OF BELIEVERS."
In 1 Peter 4: 4 to 6, we read, "and in all this, they are surprised that you do not run with them into the same excess of dissipation, and they malign you; but they shall give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. for the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of god."

we read in 2 Peter 2: 4 to 13, and 20 to 22 " for if god did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness. with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; and if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly thereafter, and if he rescued righteous lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men, for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day with their LAWLESS DEEDS, then the lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. DARING, SELF-WILLED, THEY DO NOT TREMBLE WHEN THEY REVILE ANGELIC MAJESTIES, whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the lord. but these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed. suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. they count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. they are stains and blemishes, reveling in they deceptions, as they carouse with you."

"for if after they have escaped the defilement of the world by the knowledge of the lord and savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. for it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them. it has happened to them according to the true proverb, A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT, AND A SOW, AFTER WASHING, RETURNS TO WALLOWING IN THE MIRE."
As you can see we have a free will to go our own way. But if you say that God manipulated the situation to force me to make the decision that he wanted me to make, than we go into speculation, and if he is manipulating me he has no basis to judge me, according to the scriptures I am responsible for my actions therefore I am the one doing it. We are called to obtain the character of Christ, and with that character in me I always do the things pleasing to him.

In 1 Peter 4: 17 - 19, we read, "For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of god; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER? THEREFORE, LET THOSE ALSO WHO SUFFER ACCORDING TO THE WILL OF GOD ENTRUST Their SOULS TO A FAITHFUL CREATOR IN DOING WHAT IS RIGHT.

we read in 1 Corinthians 3: 11 to 15, " for no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. now if any man builds upon the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it, because it is to be revealed with fire; and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. if any man's works which he has build upon it remains, he shall receive a reward. if any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED, YET SO AS THROUGH FIRE."


The new testament is clear God is choosing the members of his household to inherit him that is his principal objective. but a King has also other subjects which are not in his presence. right now we all have the invitation to be his children, some do not believe that there is a God, some believe but fail to meet the dress requirements, but some understand what is required of them and manage with the help of the holy spirit to go into the family of God.

 

[AK4]

quote freespirit
If my character bear witness that I am in Christ, than the life of Christ is indeed in me. and with him came all wisdom and knowledge, so what am I missing?

Honestly that is between you and God. God will give you the spirit to judge for yourself things or He will not. God will and can show you some truths about Him and His Word and then He will “let you judge for yourself”. Rather you have “eyes to see and ears to hear” is pretty much based on whether if you have closed your heart and mind and become complacent on things where your beliefs may contradict the Word of God. I believe God says this of people “their hearts are calloused” etc etc.

Yes Christ has all wisdom and knowledge and it will come with Him but it doesn’t come all at once, once one is given His spirit. Jesus will not overload us like that. He has all wisdom and knowledge but the person He comes into doesn’t have it yet. Its for us how it was for the Apostles before Jesus died and was resurrected. Jesus said to them “I have much to tell you yet you can not bear it all right now” (paraphrased). Remember this life is a learning experience so God will not just drop all knowledge and wisdom on someone like a Hes a magic genie in a bottle.

Oh and as for the Kingdom---contrary to what is taught by the churches because they don’t even know---the Kingdom is……(drum roll)….. the people—the called AND chosen, the few. That is the Gospel.
1 Peter---“a royal priesthood”
Exodus----“a royal priesthood”
Obadiah---“saviours”
2 Thess---“those caught up”
Revelations--- “the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.”

Yes the printed word is a witness, but it is written in John 5:39 - 40, "you search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of me; and you are unwilling to come to me, that you may have life."
So you see, you need to live his life which is exposed in the scriptures. In other words be a doer of the word and not only a hearer.

Tis true. Hey did you notice that though? Jesus says “you search the scriptures… and it is these that bear witness of me”. What scriptures? The old testament scriptures (although there weren’t called the OT then and really shouldn’t be called it now). See in order to get a full 3D “view” of Christ you need both testaments so you can be a true doer of Christ.

No everyone, for some are called to preach full time the rest has to support them the letter that Paul wrote to Philemon is clear on the matter.

Are they not all still dependant on God? They all are working together to support the Body of Christ and so that’ll still lead you back to “without Me you can do nothing”. Even those who don’t preach have to depend on God.

Jesus character cannot be given in parts, but we are given the gift of the spirit in parts with which we give service to our brothers and sisters read 1 Corinthians chapters 12, 13 and 14.

So let me ask you, when Jesus imparts His character to someone you are saying they instantly have ALL of His character? Oh really. Then you have all the scriptures that that contradicts regarding even Peter learning things and how to act around gentiles. You have all the verses of falling away, loosing what one once had, overcoming, fighting the good fight, running the race etc etc to contend with too.

 

[AK4]

quote freespirit
No the OT is a shadow of Christ, on the other hand the NT present Christ in a 3D color of him, so I am happy to stay in the NT because I can see him clearly.
How is the OT a shadow of Him? Was He not Lord then? Was He not loving, merciful, spoke with authority, etc etc the same way He showed Himself in the NT back in the OT? Isnt Jesus the “same yesterday, today and tomorrow”? Did He change? Can you not see all the same characteristics of Him in the OT? If not then it goes back to what ive been saying. Have you truly “let go” of the doctrine of the trinity because your words are basically saying something different. Me, coming out from the trinity belief, can see your argument and if I still believed the trinity it would make sense. But since finding out the truth about the trinity, I am able to “see” the same Jesus of the OT as the same Jesus in the NT. The same character qualities in both yet there are some places in the OT that give even deeper insights to Him that are not in the NT and you would see just how close your Creator is to you. It makes me smile just thinking about it
If that lie that you believe does not effect your heavenly character it is not doing any harm, it is better not to have it but...

Okay lets use that argument---People of the muslim faith may be living with this heavenly character, but they don’t worship Jesus. They worship another god. Now if Jesus is the truth and they are worshipping another god and it’s a lie, is it not doing harm?
And this is not just on muslims but all religions including Judaism and even Christianity who worship a triune god or even when you break it down, themselves. There are many who live in all these different religions who “live with heavenly character” but the harm in worshipping something else besides their Creator, Jesus, is very harmful.


we read in 1 Corinthians 13: 2 to 3, "and if i have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if i have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, i am nothing. and if i give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if i deliver my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing."
As you can see LOVE is sovereign, because it is the character of CHRIST, our LORD.

Yes. Love is sovereign. God is Love. If Paul did all those things but without love, He profits nothing, yet it took Jesus’ love for Paul to show Paul where he lacked in true knowledge of the Lord. Christ said that there will be many who think they will be doing a service to God by killing you. Paul (Saul) was one of them. In the knowledge he thought he had of the Lord, he thought in love he was doing God a service. Was this true love? Apparently not, because he counted all that knowledge beforehand as dung. He didn’t have love. He didn’t have God. He didn’t have Jesus. Jesus says without me you can do nothing and that flesh profits nothing and remember God is love, Jesus is love so if Paul—
has the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if i have all faith, so as to remove mountains (problems in ones life), but do not have love (Jesus), i am nothing. and if i give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if i deliver my body to be burned, but do not have love (Jesus), it profits me nothing."
So until Paul had love (Jesus), He didn’t have true knowledge. And until He had knowledge of who Jesus really was/is, he really didn’t have love (Jesus).


Believing does not necessarily miens warship, like those who believe in Jesus
in-vain. Yes they believe in him but they are unwilling to change their fleshly character. therefore they worship him in-vain.

Okay so lets look at that vain verse more carefully then

Mat 15:9 But in vain they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

So Christ Himself acknowledges that much of the world worships Him in vain. The reason being, what they teach to be trues and wonderful spiritual lessons of reality, is the doctrines of man. It’s totally falsehoods, nonsense and even worse sheer paganism.

So Christ said, you teach all of these commandments of men as though they are doctrinal truths. That’s worshipping in vain. Vain of course means useless - worthless - nothing. So your worship is useless, if you are going to teach lies and not only lies, but evil lies. What are some of those lies and doctrines---

Immortal soul.
Tithing money or be cursed and lose your salvation
Keeping days, physical rituals, and ceremonies in place of the spiritual
Discarding the resurrection of the dead as a useless doctrine
Salvation is ONLY accomplished through self, free will
Most of humanity will be tortured in literal fire for all eternity
The trinity doctrine
Heaven

The devils believe there is a God and no they don’t worship Him. People believe in God but worship Him in vain. Worship means to obey. So they believe in Jesus worshipping Him uselessly, in vain because of the doctrines they believe in that came from men. So if Jesus says their worship is useless, in vain, what would that say about their “holy character”?

After much searching I do agree with you on this point, that Christ come to save the world from death.
As i said before the LAW caused evil to increase, but because we fear the consequences of the law we have learned obedience, so through the suffering in obedience the grace of God is increased in us.


I am so glad God is opening up your eyes. Doesn’t it show how much more loving and great our Creator is? He will save all.

 

[AK4]

quote freespirit
As you can see we have a free will to go our own way. But if you say that God manipulated the situation to force me to make the decision that he wanted me to make, than we go into speculation, and if he is manipulating me he has no basis to judge me, according to the scriptures I am responsible for my actions therefore I am the one doing it.

Remember me saying Paul goes out of his way in his letters to destroy this free will thinking (You may not see it now but when God opens your eyes you will see Paul went out of his way to show the fallacy of this thinking in countless places in his writings). So I will let him (the Word of God) answer for you:

Romans 9:19-23

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? (if he is manipulating me he has no basis to judge me) 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? (Why have you force me to make the decisions that i wanted (or didn’t want) to make,) 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Even though Paul says its obsurd for measly man to question God, he goes on answers the question anyway. Here it is:

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath (vessels unto dishonour) fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy (the few, called AND chosen), which he had afore prepared unto glory,

So now since the Word cannot contradict lets address your scriptures

we read in 2 Peter 2: 4 to 13, and 20 to 22 " …..felt his righteous soul tormented day after day with their LAWLESS DEEDS (iniquity, lawlessness), …. and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. DARING, SELF-WILLED, THEY DO NOT TREMBLE WHEN THEY REVILE ANGELIC MAJESTIES, …..born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed

Free will is lawlessness/iniquity. Freewill throws out God being the ultimate cause of bringing about His plan. People who fight tooth and nail for it “despise authority” and for that self willed—heres Strongs definition of that word where it is only used one other time and that’s in Titus

authadēs self-pleasing, self-willed, arrogant

Heres the verse in Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Now here is the 2 Peter 2:10 in other translations so you be the judge if this is talking of free will or of self-pleasing, arrogant. The words even before self willed should show you that it is talking about their character and not free will

CLT 10 yet specially those going after the flesh in defiling lust and despising lordship. Audacious, given to self-gratification, they are not trembling when calumniating glories,


NIV©
This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
ISV©
especially those who satisfy their flesh by indulging in its passions and who despise authority. Being bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to slander glorious beings.
GWT©
This is especially true of those who follow their corrupt nature along the path of impure desires and who despise the Lord's authority. These false teachers are bold and arrogant. They aren't afraid to insult the [Lord's] glory.
BBE
But specially those who go after the unclean desires of the flesh, and make sport of authority. Ready to take chances, uncontrolled, they have no fear of saying evil of those in high places:
WEY
and especially those who are abandoned to sensuality--craving, as they do, for polluted things, and scorning control. Fool-hardy and self-willed, they do not tremble when speaking evil of glorious beings;

YLT
and chiefly those going behind the flesh in desire of uncleanness, and lordship despising; presumptuous, self-complacent, dignities they are not afraid to speak evil of,

born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed…it has happened to them according to the true proverb, A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT, AND A SOW, AFTER WASHING, RETURNS TO WALLOWING IN THE MIRE."

Think about it, does the dog return for no reason, no cause? Do the human return to the lusts of the flesh for no reason or is it because the love the world/darkness/lies/themselves more than the light/truth/Jesus? Ah, I don’t know which translation you are using but this “born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed” is perfect. By instinct these people return to their own vomit, ,after being washed by the truth. By instinct, not by free will, by their “programming” they return to their vomit. Did God force or have to make them, no. But by their carnal nature which God has made man to have, already being a vessel of dishonour, got washed in the Truth and returned to his vomit so God “willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering these vessels of wrath (vessels unto dishonour) fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy (the few, called AND chosen), which he had afore prepared unto glory,”.

Freewill means without any prior cause one chooses to will or to do something. Nothing makes them do it at all. Choice is deciding between options and those choosing between options bring out causes for one to choose or to make a choice. By instinct we follow the lusts of the flesh. Only by God can we overcome these. Yet it is God who is responsible for giving one the “power” to overcome these where we don’t return unto our own vomit.

See this is what you are saying/doing—you admit that, yes only by God I can keep from returning to my vomit, yet you also are saying it is all on me, with the power of my god given gift of free will and since God once and for all showed me the right way, I can keep myself from returning to my vomit. Which is the one keeping you from doing it? God or you? So once God gave you the power that’s it? You are on your own? No that is not what the scriptures teach.

So back to the point, if God doesn’t give one the power to keep from returning to his vomit you say if he is manipulating me (or denying me the power to keep me from returning to my vomit) he has no basis to judge me.Then we end up back to what Paul says 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? (Why have you force me to make the decisions that i wanted (or didn’t want) to make,) 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

With that thought many people don’t know the plan of God and how the end will be so they complain and argue that argument above. Those who know though, say well if that is your will, “your Will be done” because basically we know that the end will justify the means and then some. But one should still strive to make in the first resurrection and not become complacent.

 

[AK4]

quote freespirit
The new testament is clear God is choosing the members of his household to inherit him that is his principal objective. but a King has also other subjects which are not in his presence. right now we all have the invitation to be his children, some do not believe that there is a God, some believe but fail to meet the dress requirements, but some understand what is required of them and manage with the help of the holy spirit to go into the family of God.

I am seeing in your “dividing of the word” you are seeing that God will save all. This is real progress and God is working in you because the teaching of eternal torment and torture is THE biggest blasphemous teaching against God and demeans and defames who and what He is. God is love and the teaching on hell is no where in the ball park of who and what God is. If one believes that God will torture most of mankind in terrorist hell hole for all eternity, even if they are worshipping jesus or god (I put those in lower case because that isn’t the real Jesus and God) in holiest of character possible they will not be in the first resurrection and they will be purged by the consuming fire which is God of their carnal heart.

Anyway sorry went off on a tangent. God is working with you and don’t let those verse that say for ever and ever and everlasting and eternal steer you away because this how the devil has snuck in and defamed God. If you need to study out those words-- for ever and ever and everlasting and eternal—these are the words to look for in greek and Hebrew---aion, aionis, olam, hades, and sheol.

Also one last thing, that 1 Cor 3:11 to 15 verse spiritual match is the one in Rev 20:10 about the lake of fire and what it does.

 

[free spirit]

AK4
I have a feeling that you do not understand where I am at in the spirit; but I do understand where you are at. there is a fence between us, this fence is similar to the yet unsolved argument of, if we are under law or under grace.
the argument goes like this, we are under grace but we must keep the law, and no grace did away with the law, we are fee.
needless to say they obviously do not understand what grace is.
We also have a problem; I understand the scripture through the freedom of the Holy Spirit, you on the other hand understand the scriptures with the wisdom of the flesh, do not get me wrong between us there is only a tin fence.
I have a 12 page document that I like to send you, it will explain to you my understanding of the scriptures, it is better to get this document all together so you get the whole picture.
Do you have an Email address?

 

[free spirit]

quote freespirit

No the OT is a shadow of Christ, on the other hand the NT present Christ in a 3D color of him, so I am happy to stay in the NT because I can see him clearly.
How is the OT a shadow of Him? Was He not Lord then? Was He not loving, merciful, spoke with authority, etc etc the same way He showed Himself in the NT back in the OT? Isnt Jesus the “same yesterday, today and tomorrow”? Did He change? Can you not see all the same characteristics of Him in the OT? If not then it goes back to what ive been saying. Have you truly “let go” of the doctrine of the trinity because your words are basically saying something different. Me, coming out from the trinity belief, can see your argument and if I still believed the trinity it would make sense. But since finding out the truth about the trinity, I am able to “see” the same Jesus of the OT as the same Jesus in the NT. The same character qualities in both yet there are some places in the OT that give even deeper insights to Him that are not in the NT and you would see just how close your Creator is to you. It makes me smile just thinking about it

The OT is a shadow of Jesus because He was not revealed yet, today the Jews do not see the Lord, even with the advantage of the NT.

If that lie that you believe does not effect your heavenly character it is not doing any harm, it is better not to have it but...
Okay lets use that argument---People of the muslim faith may be living with this heavenly character, but they don’t worship Jesus. They worship another god. Now if Jesus is the truth and they are worshipping another god and it’s a lie, is it not doing harm?
And this is not just on muslims but all religions including Judaism and even Christianity who worship a triune god or even when you break it down, themselves. There are many who live in all these different religions who “live with heavenly character” but the harm in worshipping something else besides their Creator, Jesus, is very harmful.

The heavenly character can only came if you ask Jesus for it, and I cannot see an unbeliever or members of another religion making that request. even some Christian churches do not know that his Spirit is alive and active today, They study dead languages, history, archeology, the meaning of mysterious words. If they new him they would ask him direct, he is alive, he speaks your language whatever it may be, for he is the inventor of all languages.

we read in 1 Corinthians 13: 2 to 3, "and if i have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if i have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, i am nothing. and if i give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if i deliver my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing."
As you can see LOVE is sovereign, because it is the character of CHRIST, our LORD.
Yes. Love is sovereign. God is Love. If Paul did all those things but without love, He profits nothing, yet it took Jesus’ love for Paul to show Paul where he lacked in true knowledge of the Lord. Christ said that there will be many who think they will be doing a service to God by killing you. Paul (Saul) was one of them. In the knowledge he thought he had of the Lord, he thought in love he was doing God a service. Was this true love? Apparently not, because he counted all that knowledge beforehand as dung. He didn’t have love. He didn’t have God. He didn’t have Jesus. Jesus says without me you can do nothing and that flesh profits nothing and remember God is love, Jesus is love so if Paul—
has the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if i have all faith, so as to remove mountains (problems in ones life), but do not have love (Jesus), i am nothing. and if i give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if i deliver my body to be burned, but do not have love (Jesus), it profits me nothing."
So until Paul had love (Jesus), He didn’t have true knowledge. And until He had knowledge of who Jesus really was/is, he really didn’t have love (Jesus).

You can be a very devoted religious person like Paul and yet be in the flesh, that is why Jesus said "you shall no them be their love" knowledge is Good, but the love of Jesus in you is greater. Love does no harm a person no matter what.

Believing does not necessarily miens warship, like those who believe in Jesus
in-vain. Yes they believe in him but they are unwilling to change their fleshly character. therefore they worship him in-vain.
Okay so lets look at that vain verse more carefully then
Mat 15:9 But in vain they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
So Christ Himself acknowledges that much of the world worships Him in vain. The reason being, what they teach to be trues and wonderful spiritual lessons of reality, is the doctrines of man. It’s totally falsehoods, nonsense and even worse sheer paganism.
So Christ said, you teach all of these commandments of men as though they are doctrinal truths. That’s worshipping in vain. Vain of course means useless - worthless - nothing. So your worship is useless, if you are going to teach lies and not only lies, but evil lies. What are some of those lies and doctrines---
Immortal soul.
Tithing money or be cursed and lose your salvation
Keeping days, physical rituals, and ceremonies in place of the spiritual
Discarding the resurrection of the dead as a useless doctrine
Salvation is ONLY accomplished through self, free will
Most of humanity will be tortured in literal fire for all eternity
The trinity doctrine
Heaven
The devils believe there is a God and no they don’t worship Him. People believe in God but worship Him in vain. Worship means to obey. So they believe in Jesus worshipping Him uselessly, in vain because of the doctrines they believe in that came from men. So if Jesus says their worship is useless, in vain, what would that say about their “holy character”?

As I said before in different words, a believer must have the spirit of truth or (the spirit of holiness) before he can truly worship God.

As you know religious people have killed Christ, and has persecuted the church of God, they did not have his spirit, but they were in the flesh sincerely believing to act for God. they did not understand that God has chosen to work with the power of love to destroy evil,
We read in 1 Peter 2: 21 to 23, "For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you leaving you an example for you to follow in his steps. who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in his mouth; and while being reviled, he did not revile in return; while suffering, he uttered no threats, but hept entrusting himself to him who judges righteously."