Do you understand the New Testament

[free spirit]

It is no wonder those people didn't want you around. You don't have to be silly about the Lord's prayer.

It is a perfect prayer there is nothing at all wrong with that prayer.

There are temptations everywhere, and young people are are turned on by half the people they know.

Lead us not into temptation, simply means to lead us away from temptations, and if its really dangerous then; Beam me up Scotty!, deliver us from evil...

Obviously one of us does not understand the English language, I have given you other scriptures to prove the point; I am defending the Holy character of God, what are you defending?

 

[free spirit]

TO THEOSOPHER

By what you have written in your last post I believe that you worship the book, it is a common error today, you need to break free from the shackles that keeps you from understanding and from rightly divide the word of God. Here is another common error or misidentification, I look forward to your comments.

(II) In the book of ACTS, 13 – 22, we read: “And after he had removed him, he raised up David to be their king, concerning whom he also testified and said, “I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after my heart, who will do all my will.”
If we read the above verse, as it is, we can all be forgiven for thinking that this verse is referring to David as the man after God’s heart, but that is a gross misidentification. Because it was not King David who did all of Gods will, we all are aware of the sins of David, they are well documented; and when one commits a sin he is not doing God’s will. On the other hand, Jesus did do all of God’s will, because we all know that he never committed sin, which is also well documented.

Hebrews 10 – 7 to 10, is very clear about the importance of Jesus doing God’s will, for without his accomplished will there is no salvation. And in John 8 – 29, Jesus said, “And he who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him.” Therefore, I believe that ACTS 13 – 22 – 23, is speaking about a man found in the loins of David, whose delight is to do God’s will, and verse 23, conclusively confirms that the man after God’s heart is Jesus, by saying, “From the offspring of this man, according to promise, God has brought to Israel a Saviour Jesus.”

ACTS 13 – 22, should therefore read: “I have found in the loins of David the son of Jesse, a man after my heart, who will do all my will”. It is confirmed in Psalm 40 – 8, for we read, “I delight to do thy will, O my God; thy law is within my heart.” So you see, we can be doubly sure that the man after God’s heart, was going to do all of God’s will, and not only some of it, as David did. You may ask; is my intention to belittle King David? No… on the contrary, but I am trying to do as my spirit suggests, and that is, to redirect the glory toward him, that the glory is due. We read in John 16 – 13 to 14, “But when he the spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative, but whatever he hears he will speak; and he will disclose to you what is to come. He shall glorify me; for he shall take of mine, and shall disclose it to you.”

 

[theosopher]

Obviously one of us does not understand the English language, I have given you other scriptures to prove the point; I am defending the Holy character of God, what are you defending?

You invented an attack on god and then tried to save god by rewriting the scripture.

Your mind is a miracle, I must say...

 

[AK4]

So AK4 how could the Romans take or abolish their position and nation? Please replace the words "nation" with the word "religion" and things will become clear, you are greatly mistaken on this one.

You are adding/subtracting to the scriptures here by saying religion. The word used for nation has nothing to do with religion. Heres the greek word—


Ethnos

1. a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together
   1. a company, troop, swarm
2. a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus
   1. the human family
3. a tribe, nation, people group
4. in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles
5. Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians

Were does religion fit into this?


"Because I am going to the father" this is the key phrase because by going to the father he was able to send the Holy Spirit, which by being in mens heart multiplied himself and so Jesus through many disciples could do many more miracles.

Sorry AK4 but wishing to do greater works than Jesus is the arrogant idol of the heart.

Is it being arrogant and having an idol of the heart or believing the words of Jesus? Do I take Him at His word or do I demean His words and say “although Jesus you say in fact, we will do greater works than these, I know you don’t mean what you say here. I know you say those who make it into the kingdom will be called saviours and will bring the rest of the entire human population who has ever lived to repentance and knowledge of the truth but you [Jesus] don’t mean that those works will be greater than the ones you just did. Why you keep pulling my leg Jesus. Stop playing around”

How much faith is shown in that little skit right there? Is it no wonder why Jesus asked this rhetorical question “When the Son of Man returns, will He find faith?”

Yes I believe the scriptures, but I know my place, the holy spirit did not came to glorify me.
You didn't even know that with the above writing you have contradicted yourself, AK4 don't deceive yourself despite what you are saying, your freewill is alive and well.

I know my place too. Just as the Father works through Jesus to bring glory unto Himself, the same is with Jesus working through us bringing glory to Himself and the Father. The Holy Spirit has come ALSO to bring us unto glory and He is glorified by and through us also. We glorify Jesus by "doing greater things than these" in His name which out of Jesus' own mouth says we in turn are also glorifying the Father. In no way would one take the credit for doing the “works” if they truly had the Spirit. You assumed that is what I was saying. This person would give all the credit to God and wouldn’t dare take it on himself.
Notice this sentence i put that you ignored “Albeit it is Him working through us doing it though.”So where am I glorifying myself and showing my “freewill alive and well”. And Please show me my contradiction because I know there isn’t one.

And you ego blinded you from seeing what was really there

Lu 18:8 - … Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?


Ego or faith? Ego or faith in that when the Lord says we will do greater things, I believe Him, yet you say its my ego.

Again i will quote myself "I guess the problem with me is that I believe Jesus’ words when He says things like this."

 

[AK4]

Your man made doctrine are the idol of the heart, which yourself has enthroned there to obey them, I have being freed from them.
Glory to God

I dont follow or believe in freewill so how do i have this idol of the heart? You are clinging to something [freewill] that has failed every man that has ever lived save one and this is the most "glorious gift from God"??? Have you sat down and pondered about that? Why hold on to something so worthless? Look up the history on this thought/concept/philosophy/and most important to christians--doctrine and see how the church blasphemed this into God.

 

[AK4]

You invented an attack on god and then tried to save god by rewriting the scripture.

Your mind is a miracle, I must say...

I have to agree with you here on that. Freespirit you also did this with the religion thing in place of nation.

 

[AK4]

TO THEOSOPHER

By what you have written in your last post I believe that you worship the book, it is a common error today, you need to break free from the shackles that keeps you from understanding and from rightly divide the word of God. Here is another common error or misidentification, I look forward to your comments.

(II) In the book of ACTS, 13 – 22, we read: “And after he had removed him, he raised up David to be their king, concerning whom he also testified and said, “I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after my heart, who will do all my will.”
If we read the above verse, as it is, we can all be forgiven for thinking that this verse is referring to David as the man after God’s heart, but that is a gross misidentification. Because it was not King David who did all of Gods will, we all are aware of the sins of David, they are well documented; and when one commits a sin he is not doing God’s will. On the other hand, Jesus did do all of God’s will, because we all know that he never committed sin, which is also well documented.

Hebrews 10 – 7 to 10, is very clear about the importance of Jesus doing God’s will, for without his accomplished will there is no salvation. And in John 8 – 29, Jesus said, “And he who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him.” Therefore, I believe that ACTS 13 – 22 – 23, is speaking about a man found in the loins of David, whose delight is to do God’s will, and verse 23, conclusively confirms that the man after God’s heart is Jesus, by saying, “From the offspring of this man, according to promise, God has brought to Israel a Saviour Jesus.”

ACTS 13 – 22, should therefore read: “I have found in the loins of David the son of Jesse, a man after my heart, who will do all my will”. It is confirmed in Psalm 40 – 8, for we read, “I delight to do thy will, O my God; thy law is within my heart.” So you see, we can be doubly sure that the man after God’s heart, was going to do all of God’s will, and not only some of it, as David did. You may ask; is my intention to belittle King David? No… on the contrary, but I am trying to do as my spirit suggests, and that is, to redirect the glory toward him, that the glory is due. We read in John 16 – 13 to 14, “But when he the spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative, but whatever he hears he will speak; and he will disclose to you what is to come. He shall glorify me; for he shall take of mine, and shall disclose it to you.”

As with this David thing here, it doesnt do any damage for what you have done BUT anyone who has the some of the spirit can read that and see that it is talking about Jesus. So there is no need to add to the scripture here.

 

[theosopher]

I dont follow or believe in freewill so how do i have this idol of the heart? You are clinging to something [freewill] that has failed every man that has ever lived save one and this is the most "glorious gift from God"??? Have you sat down and pondered about that? Why hold on to something so worthless? Look up the history on this thought/concept/philosophy/and most important to christians--doctrine and see how the church blasphemed this into God.

Well, when you do something wrong most people will assume that you could have done that a different way.

All nations have courts that make this assumption and will hold you responsible for what you do.

 

[AK4]

Well, when you do something wrong most people will assume that you could have done that a different way.

Thus making the Word of God of no effect. If God has all knowledge and power and foreknowledge, how could someone do something that He didnt already see and plan? Are they more powerful than God to thwart what God has planned for them?

You know what happens when people assume--it makes an A%% out of U and ME.

All nations have courts that make this assumption and will hold you responsible for what you do.

Really they are held accountable not responsible. Some might not see the difference in the two but there is.

 

[theosopher]

Thus making the Word of God of no effect. If God has all knowledge and power and foreknowledge, how could someone do something that He didnt already see and plan? Are they more powerful than God to thwart what God has planned for them?

You know what happens when people assume--it makes an A%% out of U and ME.


Really they are held accountable not responsible. Some might not see the difference in the two but there is.

I do not understand the argument that you are making. If we have no free will, then why did god give Moses the law? Why aren't we just like the African pygmies with no rules whatsoever.

Why is the word repentance in the bible if it is impossible to do? Do you think that we would best behave like lemmings, the pygmies do.

 

[free spirit]

You invented an attack on god and then tried to save god by rewriting the scripture.

Your mind is a miracle, I must say...

If someone write a false about your character, won't you try to put the record right; the evidences are provided by other scriptures, I haven't invented anything.

Yes my mind is a miracle, because he opened it to understand the scriptures.

 

[theosopher]

If someone write a false about your character, won't you try to put the record right; the evidences are provided by other scriptures, I haven't invented anything.

Yes my mind is a miracle, because he opened it to understand the scriptures.

There is much more to knowing god than reading books. Jesus summed up the whole of scripture in two holy works, which can be found in Leviticus 19, and Deuteronomy 6.

It is not good to constantly sweat the details.

 

[AK4]

[
I do not understand the argument that you are making. If we have no free will, then why did god give Moses the law? Why aren't we just like the African pygmies with no rules whatsoever.

Paul shows us an example of why the law was given in Romans

Romans 7:7-13 -7 What R286 shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May R287 it never be! On the contrary, I R288 would not have come to know sin except through F123 the Law; for I would not have known about coveting F124 if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET." F124 8 But sin, taking R289 opportunity through R290 the commandment, produced in me coveting F125 of every kind; for apart R291 from F126 the Law sin {is} dead. 9 I was once alive apart from F127 the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to F128 R292 result in life, proved to F129 result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking R293 an opportunity through R294 the commandment, deceived R295 me and through it killed me. 12 So R296 then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. 13 Therefore did that which is good become {a cause} {of} death for me? May R297 it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

Why is the word repentance in the bible if it is impossible to do? Do you think that we would best behave like lemmings, the pygmies do.

Thats where this freewill business comes in because man thinks he can save himself, come to God all on his own, etc etc because of this doctrine/philosophy of freewill. God has given man over to this depraved mind. So we are told to repent of this [among many other things also] because we think we can do this on our own, by our own freewill. But God knows and His Word shows that it is impossible on our own to do this. So He [God] lets us try and try and try with our fabled freewill to build our spiritual "house". But we build it on the sand [on mans teachings/traditons, our reasonings, with our supposed freewill etc etc]. And Jesus tells us then the "rains came and the wind blew"--now if we built our "house" on the sand then great is the fall of our house. If we built on the Rock [Jesus, His words and teachings, through all His apostles and prophets] then our "house" will stand.

So we are told to repent because we think we can do it, but if God is choosing you, not just calling you, you will begin to see and to quote Jesus when was asked of this very same thing that "with man this impossible, but with God anything is possible"

 

[free spirit]

So AK4 how could the Romans take or abolish their position and nation? Please replace the words "nation" with the word "religion" and things will become clear, you are greatly mistaken on this one.

You are adding/subtracting to the scriptures here by saying religion. The word used for nation has nothing to do with religion. Heres the greek word—




Ethnos

1. a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together
   1. a company, troop, swarm
2. a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus
   1. the human family
3. a tribe, nation, people group
4. in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles
5. Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians

Were does religion fit into this?


"Because I am going to the father" this is the key phrase because by going to the father he was able to send the Holy Spirit, which by being in mens heart multiplied himself and so Jesus through many disciples could do many more miracles.

Sorry AK4 but wishing to do greater works than Jesus is the arrogant idol of the heart.

Is it being arrogant and having an idol of the heart or believing the words of Jesus? Do I take Him at His word or do I demean His words and say “although Jesus you say in fact, we will do greater works than these, I know you don’t mean what you say here. I know you say those who make it into the kingdom will be called saviours and will bring the rest of the entire human population who has ever lived to repentance and knowledge of the truth but you [Jesus] don’t mean that those works will be greater than the ones you just did. Why you keep pulling my leg Jesus. Stop playing around”

How much faith is shown in that little skit right there? Is it no wonder why Jesus asked this rhetorical question “When the Son of Man returns, will He find faith?”

Yes I believe the scriptures, but I know my place, the holy spirit did not came to glorify me.
You didn't even know that with the above writing you have contradicted yourself, AK4 don't deceive yourself despite what you are saying, your freewill is alive and well.

I know my place too. Just as the Father works through Jesus to bring glory unto Himself, the same is with Jesus working through us bringing glory to Himself and the Father. The Holy Spirit has come ALSO to bring us unto glory and He is glorified by and through us also. We glorify Jesus by "doing greater things than these" in His name which out of Jesus' own mouth says we in turn are also glorifying the Father. In no way would one take the credit for doing the “works” if they truly had the Spirit. You assumed that is what I was saying. This person would give all the credit to God and wouldn’t dare take it on himself.
Notice this sentence i put that you ignored “Albeit it is Him working through us doing it though.”So where am I glorifying myself and showing my “freewill alive and well”. And Please show me my contradiction because I know there isn’t one.

And you ego blinded you from seeing what was really there

Lu 18:8 - … Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

My faith is in God, your faith is in the scriptures, these scriptures have being subject to men for the last 2000 years. That is why we need his guidance to "rightly divide his word" from the words of men.

Ego or faith? Ego or faith in that when the Lord says we will do greater things, I believe Him, yet you say its my ego.

Again i will quote myself "I guess the problem with me is that I believe Jesus’ words when He says things like this."

Jesus loved those that give him an intelligent answer "nation" as you said stand for a group of people, a religion only exist if there is a group of people adhering to it; so if all the Jews believed in Jesus the Jewish religion would disappear, and the high priest was afraid of that, therefore he had Jesus executed. It is not hard to understand the high priest was acting to protect his fleshly interests.

 

[theosopher]

Paul shows us an example of why the law was given in Romans

Romans 7:7-13 -7 What R286 shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May R287 it never be! On the contrary, I R288 would not have come to know sin except through F123 the Law; for I would not have known about coveting F124 if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET." F124 8 But sin, taking R289 opportunity through R290 the commandment, produced in me coveting F125 of every kind; for apart R291 from F126 the Law sin {is} dead. 9 I was once alive apart from F127 the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to F128 R292 result in life, proved to F129 result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking R293 an opportunity through R294 the commandment, deceived R295 me and through it killed me. 12 So R296 then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. 13 Therefore did that which is good become {a cause} {of} death for me? May R297 it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

Thats where this freewill business comes in because man thinks he can save himself, come to God all on his own, etc etc because of this doctrine/philosophy of freewill. God has given man over to this depraved mind. So we are told to repent of this [among many other things also] because we think we can do this on our own, by our own freewill. But God knows and His Word shows that it is impossible on our own to do this. So He [God] lets us try and try and try with our fabled freewill to build our spiritual "house". But we build it on the sand [on mans teachings/traditons, our reasonings, with our supposed freewill etc etc]. And Jesus tells us then the "rains came and the wind blew"--now if we built our "house" on the sand then great is the fall of our house. If we built on the Rock [Jesus, His words and teachings, through all His apostles and prophets] then our "house" will stand.

So we are told to repent because we think we can do it, but if God is choosing you, not just calling you, you will begin to see and to quote Jesus when was asked of this very same thing that "with man this impossible, but with God anything is possible"

This is simply more and more convoluted. How can anyone ask god for help with no will? You simply do not know the meaning of the words. How does one love god with no will. Love is an act of the will.

Moses said in these books I put before you life and death, choose life.

 

[AK4]

Jesus loved those that give him an intelligent answer "nation" as you said stand for a group of people, a religion only exist if there is a group of people adhering to it; so if all the Jews believed in Jesus the Jewish religion would disappear, and the high priest was afraid of that, therefore he had Jesus executed. It is not hard to understand the high priest was acting to protect his fleshly interests.[/quote]

A nation doesnt have to adhere to a religion to be called a nation. the pharisees and the sadducees didnt not have the same religion but they were all jewish right? So in replacing that word nation with religion you change the meaning of what was written.

Lets do what you did and see how when you SELECTIVELY choose what to change, you change the meaning. Heres what you put and notice how you only picked "nations" to change.

John 11:48 to 52, we read, "If we let him go on like this, all men will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation."But a certain one of them Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, you know nothing at all. Nor do you take into account that it is expedient that one man should die, and that the whole nation should not perish. Now this he did not say on his own initiative; but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation, and not for the (Jewish) nation only, but that he might also gather together into one (religion or church) the children of God who are scattered abroad."

Now lets be consistent and change all the "nations"

John 11:48 to 52, we read, "If we let him go on like this, all men will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation[RELIGION].
"But a certain one of them Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, you know nothing at all. Nor do you take into account that it is expedient that one man should die, and that the whole nation[RELIGION] should not perish.
Now this he did not say on his own initiative; but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation[RELIGION], and not for the (Jewish) nation [RELIGION] only, but that he might also gather together into one (religion or church) the children of God who are scattered abroad."

Again doesnt that change the whole meaning and doesnt it give credit more to the jewish religion and another thing doesnt it sound just like what the catholic church is doing in saying that christians, muslims and jews all worship the same god "but that he might also gather together into one (religion or church) the children of God who are scattered abroad."

So with the changing of all the "nations" word, it even makes this statement not correct and i quote "so if all the Jews believed in Jesus the Jewish religion would disappear, and the high priest was afraid of that, therefore he had Jesus executed. It is not hard to understand the high priest was acting to protect his fleshly interests"

 

[free spirit]

:thud:

There is much more to knowing god than reading books. Jesus summed up the whole of scripture in two holy works, which can be found in Leviticus 19, and Deuteronomy 6.

It is not good to constantly sweat the details.

My argument is not on details or on the meaning of a particular word, but it is an overall view of the character of God, in other words my thinking is simple, I ask myself, is this particular scripture reflecting God's Holy character? If not I seek the confirmation from the scriptures.

 

[theosopher]

:thud:

My argument is not on details or on the meaning of a particular word, but it is an overall view of the character of God, in other words my thinking is simple, I ask myself, is this particular scripture reflecting God's Holy character? If not I seek the confirmation from the scriptures.

The only way to know the character of god is to know god. You must seek god to know him, that is what the people who wrote the scriptures did. If they did not know god, they never would have written about god. God does not come from the bible.

 

[free spirit]

Jesus loved those that give him an intelligent answer "nation" as you said stand for a group of people, a religion only exist if there is a group of people adhering to it; so if all the Jews believed in Jesus the Jewish religion would disappear, and the high priest was afraid of that, therefore he had Jesus executed. It is not hard to understand the high priest was acting to protect his fleshly interests.[/quote]

A nation doesnt have to adhere to a religion to be called a nation. the pharisees and the sadducees didnt not have the same religion but they were all jewish right? So in replacing that word nation with religion you change the meaning of what was written.

Lets do what you did and see how when you SELECTIVELY choose what to change, you change the meaning. Heres what you put and notice how you only picked "nations" to change.

John 11:48 to 52, we read, "If we let him go on like this, all men will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation."But a certain one of them Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, you know nothing at all. Nor do you take into account that it is expedient that one man should die, and that the whole nation should not perish. Now this he did not say on his own initiative; but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation, and not for the (Jewish) nation only, but that he might also gather together into one (religion or church) the children of God who are scattered abroad."

Now lets be consistent and change all the "nations"

John 11:48 to 52, we read, "If we let him go on like this, all men will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation[RELIGION].
"But a certain one of them Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, you know nothing at all. Nor do you take into account that it is expedient that one man should die, and that the whole nation[RELIGION] should not perish.
Now this he did not say on his own initiative; but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation[RELIGION], and not for the (Jewish) nation [RELIGION] only, but that he might also gather together into one (religion or church) the children of God who are scattered abroad."

Again doesnt that change the whole meaning and doesnt it give credit more to the jewish religion and another thing doesnt it sound just like what the catholic church is doing in saying that christians, muslims and jews all worship the same god "but that he might also gather together into one (religion or church) the children of God who are scattered abroad."

So with the changing of all the "nations" word, it even makes this statement not correct and i quote "so if all the Jews believed in Jesus the Jewish religion would disappear, and the high priest was afraid of that, therefore he had Jesus executed. It is not hard to understand the high priest was acting to protect his fleshly interests"

the above is almost perfect to me, because it gives you understanding of what was all about.
Another thing, God is God of all man and woman of the world, yes Christians, Muslims, Jews, Indus, Buddhist etc, etc, we are all his children, we may see him differently, but we have and worship one common thing and that is "the holy character of God" also any religion deserving to be called a religion has as the core of its believe "the holy character of God" and Jesus come to show us how to get there if anyone would receive him.

 

[AK4]

This is simply more and more convoluted. How can anyone ask god for help with no will? You simply do not know the meaning of the words. How does one love god with no will. Love is an act of the will.

Moses said in these books I put before you life and death, choose life.

Did i say we didnt have a will? NO. PAY ATTENTION TO THE WORDS. I said we have no FREEwill. I dont know the meaning of words huh? Would you like me to show you how much YOU dont know the meaning of words? Would you? We can take this word freewill and I will corner you till you change to a different word and then i will corner you again on the new word again and on and on. We can see who will look like they dont know the meaning of words

Here let me start you off. We got

freewill
free choice
free moral agency
free decisions
limited freewill
free volition
free ability
etc etc etc

You should ask yourself, how CAN one love God BEFORE God gives the gift of faith to them, since we all know and accept, but christianity seems to FORGET,
CONVENIENTLY so they can keep their doctrine of freewill, that faith is a gift FROM GOD and how does the rest of the verse finish--AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES.

In otherwords NOT OF YOUR.

freewill
free choice
free moral agency
free decisions
limited freewill
free volition
free ability
etc etc etc