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Do you want the Ukrainian War to end today?

Do you want the war to end today?

  • Yes, I want the war to end today, no matter who wins it

    Votes: 12 34.3%
  • No, I want the war to end when Russia is defeated.

    Votes: 21 60.0%
  • No, I want the war to end when Ukraine is defeated

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • No, I want the war to continue and evolve into a world war.

    Votes: 1 2.9%

  • Total voters
    35

anna.

colors your eyes with what's not there
No. It attitudes like that, assuming that someone has a right to occupy or control someone else's area, that lead to wars. Russia is not the only country that borders on the Black Sea. Why should Russia be given 'absolute control' over a sea shared by many other nations--including Turkey and Ukraine, among several others?

So, whose is it to decide, "Well, we'll just let Russia have it? And then we'll move on...until Russia decides they HAVE TO HAVE something else all for their own?"

(Don't get me started on whether the US should have such a large presence in the Med...)

Whose is it to decide? Why, the one person designated to speak for all of Italy and all of Europe, of course!

Instead how about let's let Russia have total control over Italy, and maybe they'll forget about Ukraine.

We could leave the absolute control of a small country like Italy to the Russian Federation, as a peace offering to Putin.

Let's give Italy to Russia.
And let's move on.
 
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sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
The voices in Russia are calling for nuking the UK, invading all the former Eastern European Soviet satellite nations and so forth. They sound like Hitler pre-WWII. The only answer is to once again prove that crime does not pay by making the criminal Russia pay. Otherwise they'll just keep going.

I assume we've quietly told Der Fuhrer Putin that if they use nukes, they can kiss Moscow goodbye and that Putin will be turned into radioactive dust.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I was thinking about this:
If Americans hate Putin so much, why don't they invade Russia?
I mean...just a narrow strait separates Russia from Alaska...
Why do they need to pass through the EU who has been at peace for 80 years?
Thanks :)

A lot of people asked the same question, even including Generals Patton and MacArthur at the end of WW2. This was even before Russia obtained the ability to build atomic weapons, so we had a three-year window in which we could have done it.

I'm not saying that they should have done that, since my position is that the Soviet "threat" was wildly exaggerated by U.S. policymakers, although we can only guess as to the reasons why they would do that.

However, U.S. policymakers ostensibly believed there was a bona fide threat to U.S. territory, and they believed the U.S. needed to be militarily prepared for it, as well as actively work at containing communism/socialism wherever they could find it anywhere on earth. If it was truly the case that there was such a grave threat to U.S. national security, then one might well wonder why they didn't strike while the iron was hot.

It's almost as if they wanted to leave the Soviet Bloc alone so they could rebuild and get stronger - just so the US government can later claim they're a "threat" so they could justify huge defense budgets and wars around the world to defend against the supposed "Red Menace." Think of it: They actually fired Patton and MacArthur because they wanted to defeat the communists once and for all. Why would they do that, if they thought that they were dealing with a mortal threat to our precious bodily fluids?

Of course, now, it's a completely different situation. For one thing, Russia has a nuclear arsenal of its own, so if we attack them, they would likely retaliate with nuclear weapons. We could use nukes against them, of course, although this could also trigger retaliatory strikes from possible Russian allies (NK, or possibly even China).

But perhaps we might able to sustain the damage. Back in the Reagan era, I remember some people talking about the possibility of a "winnable" nuclear war. It seems like a demented idea to even consider, but we have to consider the possibility that it may very well come to that. I've read some speculation that Russia's nuclear arsenal is quite old and hasn't been properly maintained or serviced. But we can't make the same presumptions about China's or North Korea's nuclear arsenal.

Even setting aside the question of WMDs, such a war would also be a cyber war and space war. There have been notable incidents of cyber attacks on U.S. companies and government agencies, with the strong possibility that it could be Russian hackers. And who knows what they have up in space, other than a lot orbiting space junk?

As for the Bering Strait between Russia and Alaska, this is true. There are actually two islands, two miles apart: Big Diomede (Russian-controlled) and Little Diomede (U.S.-controlled). I remember an incident many years ago - even back during the USSR days. A U.S. citizen had made his way to Little Diomede island, and then decided to walk across the ice to Big Diomede, where some Red Army personnel were stationed. They didn't know what to do with him, and they could tell he was mentally disturbed right off the bat, so they sent him back to the U.S. Apparently, such things did happen from time to time.

I've never personally been up there myself, but I've heard that it's cold, with rugged terrain. Very sparsely populated. Few roads, if any. The Russian side is pretty much the same. Both sides had a military presence, obviously, and they kept a close eye on each other and over the Arctic - and they're probably still doing that today. I can't see either side being able to launch any successful invasion across the Bering Strait. There's no roads, no railroads going up there. They'd have to transport all the troops, equipment, and supplies by air.

I remember talking with someone who pitched an idea for building a tunnel from Alaska to Russia. It seemed interesting, although there's no railroads or roads going to the Bering Strait. They'd have to build thousands of miles of railroad track to get there. Since the Chunnel was possible, this seemed technically possible, too. It was an intriguing idea, since it would have meant that there would be direct ground access between North America and Asia, which would also entail direct rail and road access to Europe and Africa as well. It was speculated that it would be far cheaper in the long run to transport goods by rail, as opposed to sea transport. It would definitely change the face of world trade, and could make an obscure, isolated frozen wasteland into the most important trade route in the world.

It's a shame that it will never happen, all because we can't seem to make peace or be able to trust our neighbors. They don't trust us, either.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Whose is it to decide? Why, the one person designated to speak for all of Italy and all of Europe, of course!

Instead how about let's let Russia have total control over Italy, and maybe they'll forget about Ukraine.

We could leave the absolute control of a small country like Italy to the Russian Federation, as a peace offering to Putin.

Let's give Italy to Russia.
And let's move on.
I do speak for the EU, yes. I know the EU's stance.
Have you seen people from the EU say otherwise? :)
 

Soandso

ᛋᛏᚨᚾᛞ ᛋᚢᚱᛖ
I didn't see any options that represent the way I feel from the options listed, so I chose that I wanted the Russian invasion to turn into a world war. Yolo
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
What I would prefer is that Putin withdraws his forces. They really have no business being there in the first place
It's a very sensible consideration.
Nevertheless, two years or nearly have passed since the beginning of this war and too many people died.
So I guess coming to terms with Russia is very urgent, if we want that no more people die.

After all, Russia asks for very few things. Just four regions. If they are the price to pay, I think Ukraine should pay it.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
She lives in an EU country.
I am speaking of EU countries who have a specific stance on the war.
In France there are anti-NATO protests every other day. So they are against this war.

In my country people have a precise stance, and even if we support Ukraine, we have made it clear that this war is supposed to end, and can't last forever, also considering that Ukraine should focus on joining the EU.

Germans are very angry, after someone undid their gas pipelines.


UK has always had a stance which is very close to that of the US.
 

Secret Chief

Degrow!
Whose is it to decide? Why, the one person designated to speak for all of Italy and all of Europe, of course!

Instead how about let's let Russia have total control over Italy, and maybe they'll forget about Ukraine.

We could leave the absolute control of a small country like Italy to the Russian Federation, as a peace offering to Putin.

Let's give Italy to Russia.
And let's move on.
Seems a great idea. Italians are all fascists, seemingly, so it's a match made in heaven. Good call.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
This war should have ended before it started. I don't think Ukraine has any say in the matter, it will end when the neocons in Washington decide.
Sooner or later the Ukrainian soldiers will run out.
They are so desperate that they are trying to force the Ukrainian refugees who found a home in Poland or in Germany to return to Ukraine to fight.
They are so delusional and desperate.

When Ukrainian soldiers run out, what will Kiev do?
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I do speak for the EU, yes. I know the EU's stance.
Have you seen people from the EU say otherwise? :)
Here is the EU stance
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/eu-response-ukraine-invasion/#invasion
The EU and its member states strongly condemn Russia's brutal war of aggression against Ukraine and the illegal annexation of Ukraine's Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions. They also condemn Belarus' involvement in Russia's military aggression.

Since February 2022, the European Council and the Council of the European Union have been meeting regularly to discuss the situation in Ukraine from different perspectives.

Russia must stop this atrocious war immediately. The European Union will stand by Ukraine with its steadfast support for as long as it takes.
European Council conclusions, 9 February 2023
EU leaders demanded on several occasions that Russia immediately cease its military actions, unconditionally withdraw all forces and military equipment from Ukraine and fully respect Ukraine’s territorial integrity, sovereignty and independence.

They emphasized the right of Ukraine to choose its own destiny and commended the people of Ukraine for their courage in defending their country.



So...no. You do not speak for the EU at all.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
British citizen.
UK is not in the EU.

With all due respect... UK is an independent country with an independent foreign policy.

With all due respect..It was in the EU throughout the vast majority of my life living there.

And i now live in France
 
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