Do you want the Ukrainian War to end today?

[sayak83]

I don't think Ukrainians want to keep dying for the sake of a president who is a former actor and usually wears sexy military-green sweatshirts...

and...it turns out that so many Ukrainians are fleeing west, since Germany is allocating lots of euros to support Ukrainian war refugees.

Maybe Russians don't want to continue to die over a futile war fought by their delusional tyrant. Hope we get another Russian revolution soon...
Russians are fleeing the country in record numbers rather than being drafted in this idiotic war.

 

[Estro Felino]

Maybe Russians don't want to continue to die over a futile war fought by their delusional tyrant. Hope we get another Russian revolution soon...
Russians are fleeing the country in record numbers rather than being drafted in this idiotic war.

By the way...in 2024, the next Ukrainian president is elected...
I don't think they will pick Zelenskyy...so I would kindly suggest him to move to some beautiful Caribbean island, definitively.

They are also tax havens, those islands...just in case.

 

[sayak83]

By the way...in 2024, the next Ukrainian president is elected...
I don't think they will pick Zelenskyy...so I would kindly suggest him to move to some beautiful Caribbean island, definitively.

They are also tax havens, those islands...just in case.

Whoever they pick, they will certainly continue the war till Ukranian victory.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, when it comes to Americans and war, it's a bit of a mixed bag. When you speak of Americans' stance, it seems to be different depending on whether it's the American government and ruling elite - or whether it's just ordinary Americans. One thing to consider is that quite a number of Americans simply don't know enough about the outside world to be able to make any kind of coherent "stance" on much of anything. Most people tend to go along with the spoon-fed, standard Cold War narrative that has been part and parcel of government policy for more than three quarters of a century.
So, the reason why Americans' stance on this issue seems ambiguous is because most people are rather confused about the world in general.

Europeans have no idea of what goes on in the Americas. They don't even know that in Cuba there's still Communism.
Europeans have a more eurocentric vision...they focus on three things: the EU, the ECB and Brussels.
but Americans do seem to care about Russia... restlessly and slightly obsessively. It's just an impression...I don't know...but that's what politicians talk about the most, I have seen...in the primaries. I mean...have you seen that of the GOP, in TV?

Moreover, governmental policy has been intentionally vague, incoherent, and inconsistent. Propagandists might talk about America's foreign policy goal of "making the world safe for democracy" or "fighting for freedom," but that can't be right, since we've supported regimes like the Shah in Iran, Pinochet in Chile, Marcos in the Philippines, and a monarchist authoritarian government in Saudi Arabia - among other detestable regimes.

Exactly. It doesn't add up...I mean the narrative "fighting against regime that oppress LGBTs and women"...

If you've noticed, comparisons to WW2 have been a significant element in creating the psychological perceptions about the current war, with the constant comparisons to Hitler invading Poland as a prelude to global conquest, "Putin = Hitler," etc. It also seems to generate the odious attitude of "those who are not with us are against us," which has also been quite evident throughout this whole thing.

Russians say the exact same thing, in their propaganda. They say the Nazis are those ruling in Ukraine...and they are the same Nazis who were defeated in Volgograd, in 1942.
So it's pretty interesting.
Considering also what Lavrov said about Hitler (check it out, if you're interested).

However, I've also noticed that more than a few governments around the world are taking a more moderate stance, where they still condemn the Russian invasion, yet want to see some sort of negotiated settlement to this thing. I wouldn't really see such an attitude as "appeasement," but a more practical approach towards saving lives in what has evidently become a no-win bloody stalemate and war of attrition.

Europeans consider war a barbaric thing, so they don't distinguish between two belligerent parties...

As for the stance taken by Americans being ambiguous, that also may be the result of certain differences of philosophy and perceptions about the world and what they believe America's role should be in it.

In my own observation, having lived most of my life in a military town in a conservative state, most patriotic attitudes I've seen tend to staunchly be pro-American and even somewhat jingoistic. Not necessarily the same as the "America First" attitude, yet it could be easily applied to that in certain contexts.

However, I've also encountered those who don't really think along those lines and take more of a "peacenik" approach to foreign policy, such as those during the Vietnam War who questioned "Why is the U.S. involved in this conflict?" I don't think they were isolationists or America Firsters, but they did seem to care about America from the standpoint of wanting our country to be more honorable, peaceful, and humanitarian in carrying out its foreign policy. Conservatives and militarists scoff at such a viewpoint, deriding it as dangerously naive and unwise, considering how horrible and threatening the rest of the world is today - or at least, that's the picture they would like us to see.

But I am in interested in your stance.
Do you want the war to end?

 

[Viker]

Europeans consider war a barbaric thing, so they don't distinguish between two belligerent parties

There's only one belligerent party. And it sits in Moscow, at a classic throne of barbarian warlords.

 

[Viker]

Russians say the exact same thing, in their propaganda. They say the Nazis are those ruling in Ukraine...and they are the same Nazis who were defeated in Volgograd, in 1942

Zelensky is a Jew, his family is Jewish and Jews are not in camps (unless Russians put them there). That propaganda is obvious nonsense and an insult.

 

[Estro Felino]

Zelensky is a Jew, his family is Jewish and Jews are not in camps (unless Russians put them there). That propaganda is obvious nonsense and an insult.

I don't consider Jews a monolith.
As I don't consider Catholics a monolith either. There are good Catholics and evil Catholics.

 

[Viker]

I mean...have you seen that of the GOP, in TV

The GOP doesn't exist any more. It's MAGA now. Also know as RINO. Republican In Name Only.

 

[Viker]

I don't consider Jews a monolith.
As I don't consider Catholics a monolith either. There are good Catholics and evil Catholics.

I didn't suggest they were. It's completely foolish to think Jews and Nazis are synonymous or working together in Ukraine. It's disgusting to suggest so. Putin and his propaganda machine say this as an insult to Zelensky.

 

[Estro Felino]

I didn't suggest they were. It's completely foolish to think Jews and Nazis are synonymous or working together in Ukraine. It's disgusting to suggest so. Putin and his propaganda machine say this as an insult to Zelensky.

Shall I think good things about Zelenskyy?
No...
he sends his fellow Ukrainians to die...and he stays safe and warm, home. Why doesn't he try to find an agreement with Russia?

 

[Viker]

Shall I think good things about Zelenskyy?
No...
he sends his fellow Ukrainians to die...and he stays safe and warm, home. Why doesn't he try to find an agreement with Russia?

There's nothing to really agree with. He's not an invader, he's on the defense team. Putin could do the right thing and withdrawal.

 

[Viker]

he stays safe and warm, home

While leading his country, dodging bombs and escaping assassins.

 

[Stevicus]

Europeans have no idea of what goes on in the Americas. They don't even know that in Cuba there's still Communism.
Europeans have a more eurocentric vision...
but Americans do seem to care about Russia... restlessly. It's just an impression...I don't know...but that's what politicians talk about, I have seen...in the primaries.

There are many Europeans who seem to be more interested in U.S. domestic politics than a lot of Americans - which is a sad comment on apathy in America nowadays. Most Americans' perceptions of Russia had been formed during the Cold War, and in many ways, we never really got out of that way of thinking, even though the Cold War ended decades ago. I grew up with it myself, all during the Cold War and see its continuation up to today. It was really because of this that I developed an interest in Russia and wanted to study and learn more about them, to try to figure out why they wanted to destroy America. I later came to realize that they were more afraid of us than we were of them. They were also afraid of the Chinese after a certain point.

Exactly. I doesn't add up...I mean the narrative "fighting against regime that oppress LGBTs and women"...

No doubt there are plenty of good reasons for fighting any regime which oppresses anyone. But that's where our policies can appear inconsistent and even incoherent to some degree.

Europeans consider war a barbaric thing, so they don't distinguish between two belligerent parties...

I think it depends on the circumstances. There have been times when war has been necessary. It also depends on one's point of view. If you were a Serbian in 1914, how would you see the world? If you were an Austrian or German or Italian or Russian or American in 1914, you might see the world from your own unique vantage point.

It's probably somewhat the same today. It's clear that there has been a great deal of long-term animosity between Russia and Ukraine which existed long before the current conflict. Even if they can find peace, there seems to be a rift between them which will last for quite a while.

But I am in interested in your stance.
Do you want the war to end?

I would like all wars and conflicts to end, including this one. Does anyone really want war? Everybody claims to favor peace, so why do we even have wars in the first place? The reason is that politicians want their way more than they want peace. Politics is about power, and along with that are many tests of power. War is the ultimate test of power, a way of communicating "I am more powerful than you, so you'd better do what I say."

Of course, adding nuclear and other WMDs to the mix, up to and including weapons in space, the actual physical power they're playing with can complicate these tests of power.

In terms of this conflict, it seems to be a war of attrition where there will be no clear winner anytime soon. I think it will probably end up where they will, at some point, agree to a cease fire and hold the lines where they currently stand. Then it will probably evolve into something similar to the border between North and South Korea. Neither side will make any concessions whatsoever, but they could eventually agree to stop fighting. At least for now. They can always start up the fighting later if they want to.

 

[Estro Felino]

I didn't suggest they were. It's completely foolish to think Jews and Nazis are synonymous or working together in Ukraine. It's disgusting to suggest so. Putin and his propaganda machine say this as an insult to Zelensky.

We Christians accept the fact that there are evil Christians who persecute and harm fellow Christians.
Because we believe there are two categories: the wicked and the just. There are good Christians and evil Christians.
And evil Christians harm good Christians.

Do you deny that the same thing can happen among the Jews?

Goebbels’ wife had Jewish father, new document shows

Residency card shows that father-in-law of Nazi propagandist was businessman Richard Friedlander, murdered in the Buchenwald concentration camp

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Alien826]

It's not realistic.
One question: in order to have Putin imprisoned, are you disposed to sacrifice the life of hundreds of thousands Ukrainian soldiers?

I am not disposed to sacrifice them.

The Ukrainians decided to resist the Russian invasion. The Ukrainians decided to keep fighting as thousands of their citizens died and their towns were destroyed. The Ukrainians will decide whether they want a peace treaty and on what terms.

We are entitled to our opinions of course, but in the end it's not up to us. To some extent we are involved as we can decide to support them or not, and imo it's in our long term interest to stop Russian territorial aggression before it goes any further. But in the end the Ukrainians will decide.

 

[Estro Felino]

The Ukrainians decided to resist the Russian invasion.

For how long? Ten years? Fifty years?
The war started two years ago, almost.
A war can't last forever.

The Ukrainians decided to keep fighting as thousands of their citizens died and their towns were destroyed. The Ukrainians will decide whether they want a peace treaty and on what terms.

I am starting to believe the narrative that the US does want to use Ukrainians as human shields against the tsar.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/washington-will-fight-russia-last-ukrainian

We are entitled to our opinions of course, but in the end it's not up to us. To some extent we are involved as we can decide to support them or not, and imo it's in our long term interest to stop Russian territorial aggression before it goes any further. But in the end the Ukrainians will decide.

It's up to the US.
Stop funding Zelenskyy and this war will end today.

 

[YmirGF]

It's up to the US.
Stop funding Zelenskyy and this war will end today.

Come now, Zelenskyy and crew seem to be exceptionally good at burning through mountains of cash too.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Yes, I want the war to end today.

Yes, it matters that Russia be the loser, and give up the territories it has occupied and annexed, and pays reparations, and likely face war crimes trials.

It would not be acceptable to me for Russia to win, nor even to retain the territories it has occupied.

Your poll doesn't allow for my particular combination of preferences

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Come now, Zelenskyy and crew seem to be exceptionally good at burning through mountains of cash too.

It tends to happen when your country is literally being invaded.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes, I want the war to end today.

Yes, it matters that Russia be the loser, and give up the territories it has occupied and annexed, and pays reparations, and likely face war crimes trials.

It would not be acceptable to me for Russia to win, nor even to retain the territories it has occupied.

Your poll doesn't allow for my particular combination of preferences

To Russia, war is already over.
They have obtained what they wanted: those four regions.

It's Ukrainians who are carrying on, by trying to get those regions back.