What about four referendums in the four regions? With the UN's supervision?
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Do you want the Ukrainian War to end today?
- Thread starter Estro Felino
- Start date
What about four referendums in the four regions? With the UN's supervision?
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
What about it?
1) Russia go home
2) Russia imprison Putin
3) Russia pay reparations
4) Peace! Freedom!
It's not realistic.
One question: in order to have Putin imprisoned, are you disposed to sacrifice the life of hundreds of thousands Ukrainian soldiers?
I am not disposed to sacrifice them.
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Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
All that could be avoided if Russia would just back away and admit being wrong. People don't have to cave in to bullies. Do you like bullies? I don't. I don't like attackers. If someone attacks me and I break their arm, I am not the one responsible for their injury.
Russia is the bully. Russia is the attacker. Bullies shouldn't be allowed to set any terms for anything. Only those who are victims and the victims allies and advocates should be setting terms for offenders to comply with.
I have decided to start this thread to understand American users' stance here.
Also because I talk to Europeans all the time, and they are very clear expressing their stance about the prosecution of this horrific war.
Most of them are against it. They hope for the end of this war, that the both parties stop fighting and strike a peace agreement.
But Americans tend to have a very ambiguous stance, that doesn't make you understand what they really want.
I want them to be as clear as possible.
My stance: I want the war to end today, no matter who wins. Even if Russia has to give in, it doesn't matter. I want them to strike a peace treaty with the Ukrainians, today. No more soldiers need to die.
What about you, guys?
Say your stance and be as outspoken and as clear as possible. Liberate yourselves.
Well, when it comes to Americans and war, it's a bit of a mixed bag. When you speak of Americans' stance, it seems to be different depending on whether it's the American government and ruling elite - or whether it's just ordinary Americans. One thing to consider is that quite a number of Americans simply don't know enough about the outside world to be able to make any kind of coherent "stance" on much of anything. Most people tend to go along with the spoon-fed, standard Cold War narrative that has been part and parcel of government policy for more than three quarters of a century.
So, the reason why Americans' stance on this issue seems ambiguous is because most people are rather confused about the world in general.
Moreover, governmental policy has been intentionally vague, incoherent, and inconsistent. Propagandists might talk about America's foreign policy goal of "making the world safe for democracy" or "fighting for freedom," but that can't be right, since we've supported regimes like the Shah in Iran, Pinochet in Chile, Marcos in the Philippines, and a monarchist authoritarian government in Saudi Arabia - among other detestable regimes.
So, the historical evidence would clearly show that it's never been about "freedom," yet so many Americans genuinely believe that our government is a paragon of virtue which only cares about freedom and human rights.
When it comes to overseas wars, a common question one might hear among Americans is "What is it to us?" or "Does America need to do anything about this?" There have been a lot of wars, conflicts, uprisings, revolutions, coups, etc. throughout the world. Do we need to get involved in all of them? Is it America's job to micromanage the entire world?
A major influencing factor in this has been the lesson of Appeasement and a long-term sense of national remorse and regret that American didn't get involved in the Second World War sooner. The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was also considered a "wake up call" which jarred many Americans out of their insularity and isolationism when it came to the rest of the world.
If you've noticed, comparisons to WW2 have been a significant element in creating the psychological perceptions about the current war, with the constant comparisons to Hitler invading Poland as a prelude to global conquest, "Putin = Hitler," etc. It also seems to generate the odious attitude of "those who are not with us are against us," which has also been quite evident throughout this whole thing.
However, I've also noticed that more than a few governments around the world are taking a more moderate stance, where they still condemn the Russian invasion, yet want to see some sort of negotiated settlement to this thing. I wouldn't really see such an attitude as "appeasement," but a more practical approach towards saving lives in what has evidently become a no-win bloody stalemate and war of attrition.
As for the stance taken by Americans being ambiguous, that also may be the result of certain differences of philosophy and perceptions about the world and what they believe America's role should be in it.
In my own observation, having lived most of my life in a military town in a conservative state, most patriotic attitudes I've seen tend to staunchly be pro-American and even somewhat jingoistic. Not necessarily the same as the "America First" attitude, yet it could be easily applied to that in certain contexts.
However, I've also encountered those who don't really think along those lines and take more of a "peacenik" approach to foreign policy, such as those during the Vietnam War who questioned "Why is the U.S. involved in this conflict?" I don't think they were isolationists or America Firsters, but they did seem to care about America from the standpoint of wanting our country to be more honorable, peaceful, and humanitarian in carrying out its foreign policy. Conservatives and militarists scoff at such a viewpoint, deriding it as dangerously naive and unwise, considering how horrible and threatening the rest of the world is today - or at least, that's the picture they would like us to see.
I don't. But when the invaders ask you for something very little in exchange for peace...well...I think it's absolutely sensible to content them.
After all...we are speaking of four regions whose inhabitants do want to stay in the Russian Federation.
It's Zelenskyy who should stop being intransigent and be more flexible.
Honestly I am impartial.
But since Ukraine has asked to join the EU, they need to comply with our rules, now.
And our rules imply that they need to stop playing this war game and to grow up.
They need to find a compromise with Russia as soon as possible.
This is such a shameful thread.
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
So, if Germany decided to annex, by force, Austria, you'd be okay with that as long as Austria doesn't resist at all and complies with Germany's "peace" deal?I don't. But when the invaders ask you for something very little in exchange for peace...well...I think it's absolutely sensible to content them.
After all...we are speaking of four regions whose inhabitants do want to stay in the Russian Federation.
It's Zelenskyy who should stop being intransigent and be more flexible.
Honestly I am impartial.
But since Ukraine has asked to join the EU, they need to comply with our rules, now.
And our rules imply that they need to stop playing this war game and to grow up.
They need to find a compromise with Russia as soon as possible.
You're not talking about peace. You're talking about coerced acquiescence. Acquiescence is your idea of peace? Just submit, even after being attacked, with no real compensation?
Colt
Well-Known Member
I don't know whether you know the situation of South Tyrol.
If Austria invaded and conquered South Tyrol, Italy would probably prefer acquiescence.
That small region isn't worth the life of our soldiers.
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
I don't know whether you know the situation of South Tyrol.
If Austria invaded and conquered South Tyrol, Italy would probably prefer acquiescence.
That small region isn't worth the life of our soldiers.
One question: who do you think undid the two pipelines Nordstream1 and Nordstream2?
The war should end with Russia back to its original borders....that includes Crimea in Ukraine hands.I have decided to start this thread to understand American users' stance here.
Also because I talk to Europeans all the time, and they are very clear expressing their stance about the prosecution of this horrific war.
Most of them are against it. They hope for the end of this war, that the both parties stop fighting and strike a peace agreement.
But Americans tend to have a very ambiguous stance, that doesn't make you understand what they really want.
I want them to be as clear as possible.
My stance: I want the war to end today, no matter who wins. Even if Russia has to give in, it doesn't matter. I want them to strike a peace treaty with the Ukrainians, today. No more soldiers need to die.
What about you, guys?
Say your stance and be as outspoken and as clear as possible. Liberate yourselves.
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Gnomes, elves, fairies, trolls.
I don't know and really don't care right now. Maybe later.
I assure you they just want to have the absolute control of the Black Sea.
Just that.
I know Putin. He is one of the most philo-European Russian leaders.
That is why he is so successful: he mediates between Europe and Russia.
Ukraine has also set her own conditions. Russia returns to its original borders and gives back the four regions that is rightfully Ukraine's. As soon as that happens, Russia can have peace.
Gnomes, elves, fairies, trolls.
I don't know and really don't care right now. Maybe later.
I don't need answers given that I have the confession on video:
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
I forgot. I suppose we should consider Alaska. Of course, we bought that from them so it might not count.
I don't think Ukrainians want to keep dying for the sake of a president who is a former actor and usually wears sexy military-green sweatshirts...
and...it turns out that so many Ukrainians are fleeing west, since Germany is allocating lots of euros to support Ukrainian war refugees.
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Still, I don't care.I don't need answers given that I have the confession on video: