Do you want the Ukrainian War to end today?

[beenherebeforeagain]

To Russia, war is already over.
They have obtained what they wanted: those four regions.

It's Ukrainians who are carrying on, by trying to get those regions back.

Then it remains imperative that Russia withdraw or be driven out of those territories, as soon as possible. The Russians are also "carrying on" by defending their illegally annexed territory, and launching offensive strikes against civilian and infrastructure targets well outside of those areas they want to get to keep. For a war that "is already over," Russia is having to spend a great deal of men and materiel...

As to what Putin wanted: at the beginning, he made it clear that he wanted ALL of Ukraine, indeed, he wanted all of the territories that were once part of the Russian Empire and/or Soviet Union...as well as the former Warsaw Pact nations, for better insulation from 'The West.'

 

[Estro Felino]

Then it remains imperative that Russia withdraw or be driven out of those territories, as soon as possible. The Russians are also "carrying on" by defending their illegally annexed territory, and launching offensive strikes against civilian and infrastructure targets well outside of those areas they want to get to keep. For a war that "is already over," Russia is having to spend a great deal of men and materiel...

If Germany invaded Luxembourg, could Luxembourg defeat Germany?
I guess it could never do that.

As to what Putin wanted: at the beginning, he made it clear that he wanted ALL of Ukraine, indeed, he wanted all of the territories that were once part of the Russian Empire and/or Soviet Union...as well as the former Warsaw Pact nations, for better insulation from 'The West.'

No...Putin has never said that. At the beginning he tried to denazify the entire country, and to overthrow Zelenskyy.
But then he changed his mind, I guess.
This is not the same thing as conquering Ukraine. He would have allowed democratic elections.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

If Germany invaded Luxembourg, could Luxembourg defeat Germany?
I guess it could never do that.


No...Putin has never said that. At the beginning he tried to denazify the entire country, and to overthrow Zelenskyy.
But then he changed his mind, I guess.
This is not the same thing as conquering Ukraine. He would have allowed democratic elections.

Germany would be just as wrong in your silly example, and everyone else would be right in opposing any such invasion.

Yes, Putin DID say that. And on more than one occasion. He wants to reconstitute the Empire; he even tried to show that it was a mistake for the Soviet Union to grant independence to Ukraine as the USSR collapsed. It is clear that he wants his legacy to be restoring Russia to its previous (and, he hopes, future) greatness among world powers.

 

[Estro Felino]

Germany would be just as wrong in your silly example, and everyone else would be right in opposing any such invasion.

Yes, Putin DID say that. And on more than one occasion. He wants to reconstitute the Empire; he even tried to show that it was a mistake for the Soviet Union to grant independence to Ukraine as the USSR collapsed. It is clear that he wants his legacy to be restoring Russia to its previous (and, he hopes, future) greatness among world powers.

The US have total control over the Mediterranean, which is a big sea.
Could we leave the absolute control of a small sea, the Black sea to the Russian Federation?

Let's give it to them.
And let's move on.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

The US have total control over the Mediterranean, which is a big sea.
Could we leave the absolute control of a small sea, the Black sea to the Russian Federation?

Let's give it to them.
And let's move on.

No. It attitudes like that, assuming that someone has a right to occupy or control someone else's area, that lead to wars. Russia is not the only country that borders on the Black Sea. Why should Russia be given 'absolute control' over a sea shared by many other nations--including Turkey and Ukraine, among several others?

So, whose is it to decide, "Well, we'll just let Russia have it? And then we'll move on...until Russia decides they HAVE TO HAVE something else all for their own?"

(Don't get me started on whether the US should have such a large presence in the Med...)

 

[Estro Felino]

No. It attitudes like that, assuming that someone has a right to occupy or control someone else's area, that lead to wars. Russia is not the only country that borders on the Black Sea. Why should Russia be given 'absolute control' over a sea shared by many other nations--including Turkey and Ukraine, among several others?

So, whose is it to decide, "Well, we'll just let Russia have it? And then we'll move on...until Russia decides they HAVE TO HAVE something else all for their own?"

(Don't get me started on whether the US should have such a large presence in the Med...)

Geopolitics is the art of compromise.
It's not that we have decided to give the Med Sea to the NATO, overnight.
It deals with incredibly delicate balances of power.

Don't worry about Romania or Ukraine. Ukraine will join the EU and it will not have geopolitical problems any more.

The Black Sea has always been a Russian sea for centuries.
We Europeans have always been okay with that.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Geopolitics is the art of compromise.
It's not that we have decided to give the Med Sea to the NATO, overnight.
It deals with incredibly delicate balances of power.

Don't worry about Romania or Ukraine. Ukraine will join the EU and it will not have geopolitical problems any more.

The Black Sea has always been a Russian sea for centuries.
We Europeans have always been okay with that.

the art of compromise...

So compromise with any petty tyrant who decides his current borders aren't enough...or that the people running a country aren't supportive of his interests enough...and we have to "compromise" with their illegal and immoral interference? REALLY?

And just let me add, yes, I know America has not always been on the right side in such matters...

But Putin/Russia has not earned compromise by anyone. Except from people like you, apparently, who seem to be quite okay with petty tyrants violating international borders and agreements because they feel wronged somehow.

 

[Estro Felino]

the art of compromise...

So compromise with any petty tyrant who decides his current borders aren't enough...or that the people running a country aren't supportive of his interests enough...and we have to "compromise" with their illegal and immoral interference? REALLY?

And just let me add, yes, I know America has not always been on the right side in such matters...

But Putin/Russia has not earned compromise by anyone. Except from people like you, apparently, who seem to be quite okay with petty tyrants violating international borders and agreements because they feel wronged somehow.

I was thinking about this:
If Americans hate Putin so much, why don't they invade Russia?
I mean...just a narrow strait separates Russia from Alaska...
Why do they need to pass through the EU who has been at peace for 80 years?
Thanks

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

If Putin is so popular in Europe, why don't all the nations quit the EU and NATO and join him?
Thanks

 

[Estro Felino]

If Putin is so popular in Europe, why don't all the nations quit the EU and NATO and join him?
Thanks

Because everything was perfectly fine...before the American Deep State colonized Ukraine an turned her into their anti-Putin base.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Because everything was perfectly fine...before the American Deep State colonized Ukraine an turned her into their anti-Putin base.

 

[danieldemol]

He would have allowed democratic elections.

Let Putin allow democratic elections in Russia and we'll have half a hope that he will allow them anywhere else.

 

[Revoltingest]

Some hope of the war ending...

Putin’s sub & warship blasted by ‘Storm Shadow missiles’ in massive Crimea blitz

UKRAINE unleashed a barrage of ten cruise missiles along with kamikaze drones in a massive assault on Russia’s powerful Black Sea Fleet. Vladimir Putin’s forces were rocked as a submari…

www.the-sun.com

 

[Estro Felino]

Some hope of the war ending...

Putin’s sub & warship blasted by ‘Storm Shadow missiles’ in massive Crimea blitz

UKRAINE unleashed a barrage of ten cruise missiles along with kamikaze drones in a massive assault on Russia’s powerful Black Sea Fleet. Vladimir Putin’s forces were rocked as a submari…

www.the-sun.com

May I know your personal stance?
Come on...liberate yourself, dearest...

 

[Revoltingest]

May I know your personal stance?
Come on...liberate yourself, dearest...

I want Ukraine to win ASAP.

 

[Estro Felino]

I want Ukraine to win ASAP.

I guess me sleeping with Leonardo Di Caprio is more likely to happen.

 

[Revoltingest]

I guess me sleeping with Leonardo Di Caprio is more likely to happen.

Not the way things are going for Putin's military,
which appear to be a (toilet) paper tiger.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I'm fine with ending the war so long as Ukraine wins. No peace treaties, as Putin can't be trusted to keep them.

 

[F1fan]

If Germany invaded Luxembourg, could Luxembourg defeat Germany?
I guess it could never do that.

Germany's leadership isn't a violent war criminal like Russia's.

No...Putin has never said that. At the beginning he tried to denazify the entire country, and to overthrow Zelenskyy.

Is that why Russia fires missles on shopping centers and apartments buildings?

But then he changed his mind, I guess.

Well there were no Nazis, so there you have it.

This is not the same thing as conquering Ukraine. He would have allowed democratic elections.

Zelensky was democratically elected, so this doesn't follow.

 

[Copernicus]

I couldn't vote, because the survey didn't provide me with the option:

I want the war to end when both sides can agree to end it.

That isn't saying much really, because the war won't end anyway until that condition is met. Neither side has to win or lose. They just have to agree to reach a truce. Neither side is going to defeat the other militarily, and wars very rarely end when one side is utterly defeated.

In this case, Russia's invasion was totally unprovoked and unjustified by any internationally recognized standard. It was, and is, merely an attempt by one sovereign country to annex a neighboring sovereign country. So I don't hope for an outcome where Russia is seen as the victor, because that would represent a very bad precedent for world peace and stability. It is hard to see any circumstance under which Ukraine will concede territory that was illegally seized by its neighbor, and most of the rest of the world does seem to side with Ukraine in this conflict. However, it is possible that Ukraine will agree to concede some of its territory in exchange for permanent status as a NATO country and whose sovereignty is protected under Article 5. That probably cannot happen while Putin remains in power, because nobody thinks him capable of standing by any agreement that he signs. Nor should Ukrainians have to expect that Russia will honor any truce that does not guarantee its protection as a full-fledged member of NATO and the EU. At this point in time, Putin and those who support him would likely see that as a defeat for them, but it might be possible if Putin were to be removed from power.