Does any supernatural god exist?

[Aupmanyav]

See, what happens when you place your trust in pseudo science. You don't have any concept of spiritual things because the pseudo scientist hide it from their followers.

In order to grasp the spiritual realm, God must open your spiritual eyes first, then you will see. Until then it would be like trying to explain the color spectrum to a person who was born 100% blind.

And for God to open my eyes, I must accept the JW version of Bible and Christianity. I think it is unjust to put blinders on humans and donkeys.

Just look at how many Israelis have very white skin today, go figure

Not difficult to figure. Absence of sun reduces melanin in skin. That is how dark-skinned African migrants became whites of Europe. Then people mix. There were Romans in Israel around the time of the birth of Jesus.

 

[Charles Philips]

It's the Christians who are disagreeing with you, not the Jewish community ─ nor I, for that matter.

But you're still stuck with the five different versions of Jesus in the NT, as I've pointed out.


Nothing about Jesus identifies him as a messiah, since he was never a civil, military or religious leader of the Jewish people nor anointed by the Jewish priesthood, this latter being the actual meaning of 'messiah' as no doubt you know.


Didn't you just say above that you rejected any suggestion of a Jewish influence on the bible? Implying, it appears, that you only have regard to the NT, but please correct me if that's wrong.


The NT has five distinct versions of Jesus, as I've pointed out to you.

And you didn't clear up the "Me, me, why have I forsaken me?" problem with your claim, nor the "If it be my will, let this cup pass from me" problem. Let alone the unambiguous denials by all five versions of Jesus that he's God. As I said, if you're not familiar with those NT texts, just ask.

Christians never disagree with me, but those who falsely profess to be Christian do.

There is only One Jesus in the NT, you misinterpreted the NT to fabricate five versions.

Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah, because He is both the Jewish and Gentile Messiah, that's why the Jews hate Him. They were expecting a Messiah who would conquer the world for them. They didn't realize tat Jesus did conquer the world, He defeated the ruler of this world and bound Him in chains so He can no longer deceive Gods Elect.

Anyhow, I see you have an entirely different interpretation of the Bible to myself. God said, that only His Elect Saints will correctly interpret the Bible, it's foolishness to those who are perishing.

I believe every Word in the Bible is God breathed, from cover to cover. So our issue is interpretation. The Bible does assert, in both OT and NT that Jesus is the Almighty Jehovah God, who created all things and sustains all things. You fail to understand that He was fully God and fully man, while He walked the earth. He prayed to His father as a man, but He always retained His Divinity.

He spoke the words "why has Thou forsaken Me" as a man and not in His capacity as God, so it takes wisdom and discernment to understand Gods Word. He only gives those gifts to His Elect, that's why I'm not struggling to understand His Word like you are.

 

[Charles Philips]

Well the "last days" have been going on for about 2000 years. It may never come.

And his incompetence, assuming he exists.

Like children developing cancer. More incompetence. Or is it being a sociopath?

All you have to offer is your private opinions, you can't back your oppinions with anything. Surely, you don't think I'm so gullable to accept anying you say. You do what everyone who doesn't the truthy does, you have appointed yourself as a know it all and you're the only one who has the authority to determine what's true and what's false.
I can download a copy of any masters degree certificate and superimpose my name on it and do what you do as well. The only problem there is, you get laughed out of every job interview.

 

[Charles Philips]

and for God to open my eyes, I must accept the JW version of Bible and Christianity. I think it is unjust to put blinders on humans and donkeys.

Not difficult to figure. Absence of sun reduces melanin in skin. That is how dark-skinned African migrants became whites of Europe. Then people mix. There were Romans in Israel around the time of the birth of Jesus.

Well it's obvious, someone has firmly fixed blinders on you. You are yet to strike a blow, but you have used many words.

I was making the point that the ethnic Israelis were pure white skinned people. Every respectable historian will confirm that. The Romans were the worlds superpower at the time Jesus walked the earth, but that doesn't mean that they interbreed with the Romans. The Israelis would have a mock funeral and disown anyone who married a Gentile.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The Israelis would have a mock funeral and disown anyone who married a Gentile.

Who is talking about marriage? Jews accept the son of a Jewish woman as a Jew irrespective of who the father was.

 

[Soandso]

I can't remember the chapters and verses off the top of my head, but you could do a web search to find them and if you can't do that then I'll have to do it for you

Yah, nah. Nothing in the Bible about white Jesus with blonde hair and blue eyes. Now, in one of the old testament prophecies about him what you have is this:

Isaiah 53:2 - For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Doesn't tell us much, but the verse just describes him as just some d00d. Not handsome

There is a vision of Jesus in his heavenly form in revelation where it says he has a "white head," but it also says he has white hair, brass feet, fire engulfed eyes, a watery voice, seven stars in his hand, is shiny like the sun, and has a sword coming out of his mouth. Visions in revelation aren't often taken literally though, so your mileage may vary

Alright! Your turn. Where does the Bible talk about Jesus being white with blonde hair and blue eyes, handsome and muscular, and 6 feet tall?

 

[blü 2]

Christians never disagree with me, but those who falsely profess to be Christian do.

*chuckle* I have the same problem with people who falsely profess to be reasonable.

There is only One Jesus in the NT, you misinterpreted the NT to fabricate five versions.

You can't have read it, or you wouldn't be able to say that. As for five versions, that's correct, though the smallest difference, the greatest similarity, is between Matthew's and Luke's.

Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah, because He is both the Jewish and Gentile Messiah, that's why the Jews hate Him.

If the Jewish community have any argument with Jesus, it may have something to do with two millennia of violent antisemitism ─ inquisitions, pogroms, ghettos, gas chambers, that kind of thing.

They were expecting a Messiah who would conquer the world for them.

They were expecting a messiah who would regain their political freedom and identity for them. The conquer-the-world idea is very Christian, an expansionist take on Roman Empires.

They didn't realize tat Jesus did conquer the world, He defeated the ruler of this world and bound Him in chains so He can no longer deceive Gods Elect.

¿Ché? If you mean colonialism and forced conversions, the Spanish have the shiniest credentials there, but the British were pretty good too, by golly! Then again, our Muslim friends' successes in that regard should be given such credit as may be due for such things as well.

Anyhow, I see you have an entirely different interpretation of the Bible to myself.

It seems so. I actually read it. for a start. And I read it to see what it actually says and what information, if any, we can glean, about the relevant history involved.

God said, that only His Elect Saints will correctly interpret the Bible, it's foolishness to those who are perishing.

I asked you before ─ where exactly does God say that?

I believe every Word in the Bible is God breathed, from cover to cover.

Why?

So our issue is interpretation. The Bible does assert, in both OT and NT that Jesus is the Almighty Jehovah God, who created all things and sustains all things.

No it [expletive] doesn't. Or to put that another way, bet you can't quote me the bible saying that. Certainly the Jesus of Paul and the Jesus of John created the material universe, but not as God.

Nor have you addressed the all-five-versions-of-Jesus-were-liars problem that you make for yourself, since all five versions of Jesus denied they were God. >Here's a quick look at some of those denials<. All five versions of Jesus are included there.

You fail to understand that He was fully God and fully man, while He walked the earth. He prayed to His father as a man, but He always retained His Divinity.

Either he's God and therefore he prayed to himself, or he's not god and as he expressly says (see link above) he was praying to his God, and NOT to himself.

He spoke the words "why has Thou forsaken Me" as a man and not in His capacity as God

Then you agree he was NOT god.

You should look up a brief history of the early church and the politics that went into elevating Jesus, a human, to God status,. Erhman's How Jesus Became God is as good as any and better'n some.

However, I don't detect any curiosity in you. You want your Elect view to be true, so my guess is that you'll avoid any evidence to the contrary. I'm of course happy to be shown to be wrong ─ but so far, nothing.

 

[Charles Philips]

Who is talking about marriage? Jews accept the son of a Jewish woman as a Jew irrespective of who the father was.

Wrong again, they never accepted Him at all. That's why they tortured Him and put Him to death

 

[Ajax]

Well no point in discussing anything with you since your response is always “it was made up”.

As you wish, but remember that initially Christianity wanted to convert the Jews. So they were looking for "prophecies" to show that they were referred to Jesus. Of course Jews were not fools.
Read Isaiah 7:1-18 and tell me in all honesty, if there is 1 in a million chance that it refers to Jesus.

 

[Charles Philips]

Yah, nah. Nothing in the Bible about white Jesus with blonde hair and blue eyes. Now, in one of the old testament prophecies about him what you have is this:

Isaiah 53:2 - For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Doesn't tell us much, but the verse just describes him as just some d00d. Not handsome

There is a vision of Jesus in his heavenly form in revelation where it says he has a "white head," but it also says he has white hair, brass feet, fire engulfed eyes, a watery voice, seven stars in his hand, is shiny like the sun, and has a sword coming out of his mouth. Visions in revelation aren't often taken literally though, so your mileage may vary

Alright! Your turn. Where does the Bible talk about Jesus being white with blonde hair and blue eyes, handsome and muscular, and 6 feet tall?

Don't be fooled by racist groups who push a fake black Jesus. The Hebrews were white, regardless of how much misinformation you've heard.

Here is a real Hebrew historian, he quotes many scriptures which prove Hebrews are white people, so that means Jesus is a white man.

 

[Ajax]

That's an abomination, I would never put my trust in someone as ugly as that.

Wow... so you are going for the looks, not for the mind..

The Bible record says that Jesus has very white skin, with blue eyes and blond hair.

Well, I will become a devout Christian if you show me where exactly the Bible claims that..

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Don't be fooled by racist groups who push a fake black Jesus. The Hebrews were white, regardless of how much misinformation you've heard.

Here is a real Hebrew historian, he quotes many scriptures which prove Hebrews are white people, so that means Jesus is a white man.

Any given text as a scriptures is from Satan. Only first person direct knowledge from God counts. Since you don'¨t do that, you have fallen for Satan.

 

[Soandso]

Don't be fooled by racist groups who push a fake black Jesus. The Hebrews were white, regardless of how much misinformation you've heard.

Here is a real Hebrew historian, he quotes many scriptures which prove Hebrews are white people, so that means Jesus is a white man.

Wait, you said this:

I can't remember the chapters and verses off the top of my head, but you could do a web search to find them and if you can't do that then I'll have to do it for you

Where's those verses? I couldn't find those verses and you promised you'd "have to do it" for me, or are you just making more extra-biblical stuff up? I'm waiting for those verses describing Jesus as a blonde hair, blue eyed, muscular built 6 foot handsome man

I'm not interested in watching videos. I want actual written evidence I can analyze - preferably from the main source, the bible

 

[Charles Philips]

*chuckle* I have the same problem with people who falsely profess to be reasonable.


You can't have read it, or you wouldn't be able to say that. As for five versions, that's correct, though the smallest difference, the greatest similarity, is between Matthew's and Luke's.


If the Jewish community have any argument with Jesus, it may have something to do with two millennia of violent antisemitism ─ inquisitions, pogroms, ghettos, gas chambers, that kind of thing.


They were expecting a messiah who would regain their political freedom and identity for them. The conquer-the-world idea is very Christian, an expansionist take on Roman Empires.


¿Ché? If you mean colonialism and forced conversions, the Spanish have the shiniest credentials there, but the British were pretty good too, by golly! Then again, our Muslim friends' successes in that regard should be given such credit as may be due for such things as well.


It seems so. I actually read it. for a start. And I read it to see what it actually says and what information, if any, we can glean, about the relevant history involved.


I asked you before ─ where exactly does God say that?


Why?


No it [expletive] doesn't. Or to put that another way, bet you can't quote me the bible saying that. Certainly the Jesus of Paul and the Jesus of John created the material universe, but not as God.

Nor have you addressed the all-five-versions-of-Jesus-were-liars problem that you make for yourself, since all five versions of Jesus denied they were God. >Here's a quick look at some of those denials<. All five versions of Jesus are included there.


Either he's God and therefore he prayed to himself, or he's not god and as he expressly says (see link above) he was praying to his God, and NOT to himself.


Then you agree he was NOT god.

You should look up a brief history of the early church and the politics that went into elevating Jesus, a human, to God status,. Erhman's How Jesus Became God is as good as any and better'n some.

However, I don't detect any curiosity in you. You want your Elect view to be true, so my guess is that you'll avoid any evidence to the contrary. I'm of course happy to be shown to be wrong ─ but so far, nothing.

Yep, so far you have shown me nothing but baseless private opinion. I reject your interpretation of the Bible as being completely false. I can tell you read the bible like some kind of sci-fi novel. Well, guess what. You need a qualified theologian to interpret the bible for you as it is bleeding obvious you don't have a clue how to approach it.

My Minister said, if you give the bible to 10 people and ask them to read it, they will come back with 10 opposing interpretations and you have proved him to be 100% correct.

I have been studying the bible for the past 6 years, we study in a group with a few Elders present to guide us. If you don't have someone to teach you, then you will most certainly get lost in confusion as you are demonstrating so clearly here.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yep, so far you have shown me nothing but baseless private opinion. I reject your interpretation of the Bible as being completely false. I can tell you read the bible like some kind of sci-fi novel. Well, guess what. You need a qualified theologian to interpret the bible for you as it is bleeding obvious you don't have a clue how to approach it.

My Minister said, if you give the bible to 10 people and ask them to read it, they will come back with 10 opposing interpretations and you have proved him to be 100% correct.

I have been studying the bible for the past 6 years, we study in a group with a few Elders present to guide us. If you don't have someone to teach you, then you will most certainly get lost in confusion as you are demonstrating so clearly here.

Yeah, you are so objective that you are not personal as all. In fact you are not an indivudal at all.

 

[blü 2]

Yep, so far you have shown me nothing but baseless private opinion.

Don't be silly now ─ I've linked you to quotes, which (not to my surprise) you haven't read.

I reject your interpretation of the Bible as being completely false.

Perfect reciprocity! But I find yours baseless as well. The bible doesn't say what you want it to say. You can't even point me to a part that mentions the Elect, for instance.

You need a qualified theologian to interpret the bible for you as it is bleeding obvious you don't have a clue how to approach it.

My crime is great! I read what it says instead of many of the theologians would prefer it to say. That's to say, I approach it as I'd approach any other ancient document ─ what, where, when, who, why. Try it some time. I have no wish for it to say any particular thing, I have no ax to grind as to what it might say. Or not say, as with the total absence of Jesus from the Tanakh.

My Minister said, if you give the bible to 10 people and ask them to read it, they will come back with 10 opposing interpretations and you have proved him to be 100% correct.

Not quite. I've only come back with one opinion. It's certainly no worse that your Minister's, since it's based on what is written there. '

I have been studying the bible for the past 6 years, we study in a group with a few Elders present to guide us. If you don't have someone to teach you, then you will most certainly get lost in confusion as you are demonstrating so clearly here.

And yet you still haven't noticed that there are five distinct versions of Jesus there, and you still can't point me to the part that mentions the Elect,

You haven't pointed to any "confusion" of mine. You've simply asserted your contrary view,

 

[Aupmanyav]

Wrong again, they never accepted Him at all. That's why they tortured Him and put Him to death

I do not think they ever denied his being Jewish. That is why Pilate accepted their demand to crucify him.

 

[Quester]

You have no such texts, if they were found to exist it would change the world over night and history would have to be rewritten

Talk to the archeologists.

 

[Ajax]

Yep, so far you have shown me nothing but baseless private opinion. I reject your interpretation of the Bible as being completely false.

No, that is not true. We have all shown you verses from the Bible supporting our claims. You have been the one who has shown us NONE for your weird claims. I doubt whether you or most Christians have ever read the whole Bible., as a lot of atheists/agnostics have done.

Wrong again, they never accepted Him at all. That's why they tortured Him and put Him to death

They never accepted him, because he never fulfilled any of God's prophecies for the Messiah as told by the prophets, except from being a Jew...

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Yeah, you are so objective that you are not personal as all. In fact you are not an indivudal at all.

I'm sure, like me, you and others have noticed that he continues to blatantly preach and proselytize despite the rule prohibiting it. I think that is suspicious.