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Does anyone....

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Justifying
Since when is keeping Jesus' commandment not to judge others synonymous with justifying anything? I never said it's not sinful. Stop putting words into my mouth, and stop being so confounded self-righteous.

There is no way around this serious sin...
Sure there is. It's called repentence, and it's the second principle of the Gospel.
God will not make any special allowances for this type of sin in his kingdom.
And just which sins do you believe God will make special allowances for? Our scriptures teach that God does not look upon sin with the least degree of allowance. I believe that's referring to sins of any kind.

Sexual sins are next to murder in seriousness..
Yeah, I've heard that. Personally, I don't believe it. I'd say that rape and child abuse, for example, are far more serious.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
For what it's worth... it's a problem that has been around since the early church:

I Corinthians 7:8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. NIV
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
We all have sinned and are under condemnation, we all fall short of the glory, the sinlessness and righteousness that God has. When one accepts the free gift of eternal life, ALL their sins are forgiven, blotted out, forgotten, removed as far as the east from the west (infinity), buried in the deepest sea, they are made whiter than snow, having Christ's righteousness imputed unto them, a robe of righteousness as it were, not ours, but Christ's given to us freely. ALL are sins were paid for on the cross, past, present, and future--they were all future for us when he died, eh? And ALL means ALL. When we enter heaven, we will be completely sinless and righteous, because of what Jesus did. God sees only the blood of Christ.

The Bible tells us to flee fornication, to flee denotes RUN, as if a great and terrible army were chasing you. It does hurt believers fellowship with God, but not their relationship. My child is always my child although we may not have fellowship due to disobedience. God cannot bless us as he would want to when we have sin in our lives. We think we know the right way to do things, but God knows better, we should trust him. Fornication can bring unwanted and illigitemate pregnancies, STD's, and much pain into many people's lives with whom we have to do. All sin has consequences in this life and loss of reward and position in the next. For the believer, it is not wise, and for the unbeliever, it is just one of the many sins that will condemn them in the last day as they did not accept the free gift of Jesus' having paid for those sins for them.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
I'm a firm believer in consequences for actions. I think that if two people aren't ready to deal with those consequences, that they probably shouldn't have sex. However, I dont feel like anyone's going to hell cause of it.

Seeing as I don't believe in hell anyway, it would be hard for me to believe that someone's going there. ;)

It's a sin in most religions any way you slice it. If these two parties were in love, and didn't feel the need to apologize for what they've done. What then?

Beats me. It's not like anyone died and made me God. :cover:

Who would the couple apologize to anyway? Provided neither were married and there no children to apologize to, they could apologize to God I suppose, if they felt the need.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
I had an Episcopalian girlfriend, just before I found my current LDS wife and she would say the same things, "Do you really believe, fill in the blank here ??? "

I nearly messed up my life listening to these types of questions and doubts.

Commandments are clear, no sex except with your husband or wife...

Jesus said, "No unclean thing shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"

Just on a practical note, FFH, I was raised Calvinist and the commandment was very clear.

Then I became an atheist, and the commandment became irrelevant.

Hitching one's moral wagon entirely to religious commandments has its dangers and *that* short-sighted focus nearly messed up my life.

I can give you a list of non-religious reasons why sex outside of marriage can have bad results and is better avoided.

Had anyone bothered to tell me any of those reasons instead of just "God says No!" I wouldn't have bothered. Quite possibly I could've avoided a hysterectomy as well.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
The fact that the sin is serious, does not mean that forgiveness cannot be obtained. Christ suffered for even the most serious of sins.
God cannot forgive someone in their sins, only when one turns from sin.

The woman who was caught in adultery was forgiven immediately by Christ for her sins, but their was a condition to that forgiveness, Christ said to her, "Go and sin no more".

Those are the conditions.

No one will be saved in their sins only those who turn from their sins.

Past sins will be forgiven if one turns from them, but if one persists in this sin until death, that same sin will condemn that person until he/she turns from it.

Those who die in this sin will pay for it in the next life, but will be redeem eventually from hell.

Hell is an eternal place of fire, but only the Devil and his demonic angels will dwell ther for the eternities, none of us will ever spend an eternity in hell, but many many of us may have to pay for our own sins in hell if we do not turn from them in this life, myself included if I don't obey this and other commandments.

No one is exempt from the punishment of this sin if he/she does not turn from it in this life..
 

FFH

Veteran Member
For what it's worth... it's a problem that has been around since the early church:

I Corinthians 7:8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. NIV
The NIV adds the phrase, "with passion," after the end of this scripture.

"Cursed is he who adds to this book" (Bible)

King James
1 Corinthians 7:8
It is better to marry than to burn. ...period, end of sentence...

Burn, in this sentence, is, as in hell, not as with passion..

This is a serious sin and there is a definite punishment affixed. Avoid it like a deadly disease...

Katzpur, calling me self righteous for saying this is also calling your bishop self righteous when he sits down for a temple recommend interview with someone and asks the same question of worthiness, if they sought to enter the temple to be sealed to a spouse for eternity.

No fornication is allowed in heaven. There are no allowances for this..

If I was living in this sin before I married I would not be able to marry in an LDS temple until I turned from this serious sin...

Katzpur, are you also calling God self righteous for laying down this law ???

Seems you have issues with God, not me...

I'm not perfect in anyway, but I can avoid this serious sin, simply by committing to one person and getting married...especially in an LDS temple, so I can continue that relationship throughout the eternities, otherwise I will live as a single person throughout eternity. No way I'm going to settle for that.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Buttons, read this carefully and ponder it, there is great salvation found in obeying this counsel found in this short simple scripture..

1 Corinthians 7: 9
But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

No one will be saved in their sins only those who turn from their sins.

No one will be saved in ignorance of this commandment either...

"It is impossible to be saved in ignorance"
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
FFH is there any reason you left off the notation "c"?

c GR burn with lust.


It changes the entire meaning of that passage. No wonder why I prefer the NIV! I quoted it already in post #42:

I Corinthians 7:8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. NIV

You should be ASHAMED that you accuse me of adding to the scriptures when a cursory inspection of the scripture YOU PROVIDED us shows YOUR ERROR in what that scripture means. ASHAMED!!!
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
No fornication is allowed in heaven. There are no allowances for this..
Dude, there is probably no SEX in heaven.

Matthew 22:29 Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. NIV
 

Cynic

Well-Known Member
Personally, I don't understand what the big deal is. When I was younger I was a devoted Christian and thought that sex was like, sharing your soul with someone. I made sure that whoever I was dating was a virgin, because I didn't want to commit adultery and share myself with someone who already gave half their soul away...
Of course, I now know how unrealistic that was. I mean, look at our high rate of divorce... The average age for people to get married is now 27 (from what I remember)... Are people really going to wait that long? Come on. I just don't see what the big deal is. Sex is.... well Sex. Just a natural aspect of human nature.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
No. Rather hard for me to believe it will get you to hell, since I do not believe in hell at all.

Well, I'll be in hell then
smile.gif
no reason to stop being with someone I love.
I'll make sure to have a nice room cleared out and waiting for ya when I take over. Since I like you, and you are the High Poowahwah or whatever the title of Choodiansim, I'll give you your own wing in my massive castle. I'll also make sure to put a mini-cupcake factory in it, that will put out any and all types of cupcakes you want as fast as you want them.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Dude, there is probably no SEX in heaven.

Matthew 22:29 Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. NIV
:eek:
I'm not a very sexual person, but I even find that notion to be another reason I do not want to be in Heaven.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
FFH is there any reason you left off the notation "c"?

c GR burn with lust.
I never noticed that, thanks for pointing that out.

I however don't believe that is the correct interpretation of that particular scripture.

Burn as in the all consuming fires of hell that do not consume. I've felt them and they are real and aweful..

Seriously I've felt them and want to help others avoid having to go through that...

It changes the entire meaning of that passage. No wonder why I prefer the NIV! I quoted it already in post #42:
Yeah it sure changes it into something Christ did not inted for it to mean. If he meant burn with lust/passion he would have inspired it that way, but he didn't.

Interpreting it that way is dangerous and deceptive...

I Corinthians 7:8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. NIV
This is a deceptive interpretation...


Christ warns us not to add or subtract to scripture. Don't mess with God's holy inspired scriptures...

You should be ASHAMED that you accuse me of adding to the scriptures when a cursory inspection of the scripture YOU PROVIDED us shows YOUR ERROR in what that scripture means. ASHAMED!!!
Christ curses anyone who adds or subtracts to scripture, for instance , the King James has many errors, as does the New International, of course. LDS footnotes are equally at fault. Anyone who adds or subtracts to God's holy inspired scripture fall under this curse, anyone...

The Joseph Smith inspired version is the only correct version of the Bible I use, and I check all King James passages by referring to the Joseph Smith Inspired version, to see if they are correct and intact, and this particular one in the King James is perfectly correct. There are no errors or added or subtracte words or phrases..

"Burn," period, end of sentence....

You're justifying this sin also as most people do, it's a dangerous thought process...
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
I never noticed that, thanks for pointing that out.
I take it that you argue with the sign post and take the wrong way home. Too bad that. With irrefutable evidence as to what it means you still insist on twisting the scriptures. I guess you can lead a horse to water, but you just can't stop it from drowning!

So, I have to ask, if you were there, would you really have cast the first stone? If not, you are merely justifying her sin!
 

FFH

Veteran Member
I take it that you argue with the sign post and take the wrong way home. Too bad that. With irrefutable evidence as to what it means you still insist on twisting the scriptures. I guess you can lead a horse to water, but you just can't stop it from drowning!

So, I have to ask, if you were there, would you really have cast the first stone? If not, you are merely justifying her sin!
Wow, this gives me more insight into how you and others basically perceive Christ and his laws...

There is forgiveness if a person walks away from sin, but not if they persist in sin, Christ made that clear to the woman caught in adultery and to the world, by illustrating this, through using her as an example..

If she had gone back into sin she would have later been stoned. She was spared death by discontinuing to sin.

Disciple = Disciplined follower of Christ
 

FFH

Veteran Member
No need to kid ourselves by thinking there will be no punishment for unrepented sins...

Should I justify not paying tithing also and think that I won't get "burned," according to LDS scripture ???

I have felt this burning in my spirit when I have tried to go without paying my tithing. God gives us warnings in our spirit of the realities of hell. They are aweful, I've felt them, until I give in and obey God's many principles of righteousness...

He does this because he loves us and does not want anyone to experience pains of any kind...

Shall we misinterprete this one too ??????

Doctrine and Covenants 64: 23
Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.

Dotrine and Covenants 85: 3

It is contrary to the will and commandment of God that those who receive not their inheritance by consecration, agreeable to his law, which he has given, that he may his people, to prepare them against the day of vengeance and burning, should have their names enrolled with the people of God.

Should we, as LDS, add or subtract to this too ???

Malachi 4: 1 (King James)
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
she would have later been stoned
Thank goodness you are not in charge of heaven! I don't think I have encountered such a mean spirited rendition of Christianity. I hope you measure up to the judgments you are putting out.

Matthew 12:7 If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. NIV
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Should I misinterprete this one too ????

Pslms 21: 9 (8-10)
Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Thank goodness you are not in charge of heaven! I don't think I have encountered such a mean spirited rendition of Christianity. I hope you measure up to the judgments you are putting out.
Not judging anyone and I would not and could not have stone her, but the others in the community would have done so later, if they had caught her committing adultery again, if Christ were not around the next time. Christ gave her a second chance at life, which he gives us all. That was just an illustration of God's love for us all, unconditionally, but in order to take advantage of God's love and mercy extended towards us, we must repent (turn from sin), while it is "still called today"...

Matthew 12:7 If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice you would not have condemned the innocent. NIV
Mercy comes when we repent...

We are not saved in our sins. This is scriptural...
 
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