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Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
I don't conceptualize human behaviors in terms of "moral" or "immoral" - this is far too black-and-white for my pluralist mind, never mind the amoral vantage point through which I regard the world more generally.
Accepting or rejecting some particular idea about something - whether we're talking economic philosophies, political systems, theological systems, or whatever - in of itself means very little. How these ideas translate into behaviors is what matters, and accepting or rejecting particular ideas certainly drives behavior. The correspondence though, particularly with an idea as complex as the gods, isn't straightforward. It doesn't help that nobody is one-sidedly (a)theistic with respect to all ideas about the gods. (A)theism is barely a useful concept as it is, never mind attempting to connect it to human behavioral outcomes. One really must get more specific than that - which (a)theist ideas?
Small reminder of (a)theism =/= (ir)religion/(ir)religious.
Accepting or rejecting some particular idea about something - whether we're talking economic philosophies, political systems, theological systems, or whatever - in of itself means very little. How these ideas translate into behaviors is what matters, and accepting or rejecting particular ideas certainly drives behavior. The correspondence though, particularly with an idea as complex as the gods, isn't straightforward. It doesn't help that nobody is one-sidedly (a)theistic with respect to all ideas about the gods. (A)theism is barely a useful concept as it is, never mind attempting to connect it to human behavioral outcomes. One really must get more specific than that - which (a)theist ideas?
Small reminder of (a)theism =/= (ir)religion/(ir)religious.
Since you are a Muslim this Hadith:
The time is near in which nothing will remain of Islam but its name, and
of the Quran but its mere appearance, and the mosques of Muslims will be
destitute of of knowledge and worship; and the learned will be the worst
people under the heavens; and contention and strife will issue from them,
and it will return upon themselves.
...
Ye follower of Muhammad, I swear by the Lord, if ye did but know what I
know of the future state, verily ye would laugh little and cry much.
...
Men will be liars towards the end of the world; and will relate such
stories as neither you nor your fathers ever heard. Then avoid them, that
they may not lead you astray and throw you into contention and strife.
of the Quran but its mere appearance, and the mosques of Muslims will be
destitute of of knowledge and worship; and the learned will be the worst
people under the heavens; and contention and strife will issue from them,
and it will return upon themselves.
...
Ye follower of Muhammad, I swear by the Lord, if ye did but know what I
know of the future state, verily ye would laugh little and cry much.
...
Men will be liars towards the end of the world; and will relate such
stories as neither you nor your fathers ever heard. Then avoid them, that
they may not lead you astray and throw you into contention and strife.
From Hinduism: http://www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/hindusa.htm this time was also prophesied:
"...deceit, falsehood, lethargy, sleepiness, violence, despondency.
grief, delusion, fear, and poverty prevail..."
... men will abandon their parents, brothers, friends, and
relatives. They will occupy high seats [and pulpits] and will [pretend
to] preach religion.
grief, delusion, fear, and poverty prevail..."
... men will abandon their parents, brothers, friends, and
relatives. They will occupy high seats [and pulpits] and will [pretend
to] preach religion.
And atheists are as capable of it as religious folk.
chris baron
Member
evolution teaches us that extinction, survival of the fittest (opportunistic murder and other forms of brutality) and genocide are simply nature taking its course
Audie
Veteran Member
That's the bleak view you choose
Evolution is a fact of the world God created. To deny science is to deny the world God created in favor of a human conception. And cooperation is part of evolution:
The evolution of human cooperation
Five rules for the evolution of cooperation
Cooperation, not struggle for survival, drives evolution, say researchers
chris baron
Member
It’s an empirical fact: San Francisco is a crappier place to live these days. Sightings of human feces on the sidewalks are now a regular occurrence; over the past 10 years, complaints about human waste have increased 400%
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
What "expressly atheist societies" are there? Can you name one?
There is such thing as an atheist. I am an atheist.
I don't get up in the morning for any gods. I don't worship any gods. I don't believe in any gods.
chris baron
Member
didnt cromags supposedly exterminate neanderthals? "cromags are not immoral because they cooperated in the extermination of neanderthal."
i
chris baron
Member
Under the doctrine of state atheism in the Soviet Union, there was a "government-sponsored program of conversion to atheism" conducted by Communists.
It is our duty to destroy every religious world-concept... If the destruction of ten million human beings, as happened in the last war, should be necessary for the triumph of one definite class, then that must be done and it will be done. - Soviet Militant Atheist League
The Communist Party destroyed churches, mosques, and temples; it executed religious leaders; it flooded the schools and media with anti-religious propaganda;
According to some sources, the total number of Christian victims under the Soviet regime has been estimated to range around 12 to 20 million.[8][9] At least 106,300 Russian clergymen were executed between 1937 and 1941.[10]
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Canada isn't an "expressly atheist society."
I did not provide the links to the Hadith I quoted
Sayings of The Prophet | Islamic Values and with more citations here:
Signs of the Last Day - The Rejection of the True Religion
Sayings of The Prophet | Islamic Values and with more citations here:
Signs of the Last Day - The Rejection of the True Religion
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
If religion is the answer, do you view theocracies such as Iran or Saudi Arabia as ideal models?
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
No. Religious belief may influence moral behavior for some but it doesn't exemplify it. Morality or the lack of morality are mostly from personal character traits. Highly religious folk can be some of the most vile immoral scoundrels.I'd suppose this depends on what you view as moral behavior but I thought I'd ask the question to see what people would say.
It is easy to justify one's personal morals but I'd like you to consider the world at large. Is the world becoming more moral or less moral?
And, does this have anything to do with the decline of religious belief?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
And you believe that people aren't capable of empathy or compassion without religion?
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
One could try to get away with saying there is no such thing as a Jew, Christian, Muslim or even a Free Mason.
No it is not.
If you want to discuss science, fine. The fact is that many humans have neanderthal genes showing that there was a lot of sex between homo sapiens and neanderthals for one thing. It's important to stay up with the science:
Neanderthal extinction not caused by brutal wipe out
"We are now able to demonstrate that Homo sapiens arrived 12,000 years before we expected, and this population was then replaced after that by other Neanderthal populations. And this literally rewrites all our books of history."
...
But the new discovery suggests that our species arrived much earlier and that the two species could have coexisted in Europe for more than 10,000 years before the Neanderthals went extinct.
According to Prof Chris Stringer, of the Natural History Museum in London, this challenges the current view, which is that our species quickly overwhelmed the Neanderthals.
...
So, if it wasn't a case of our species wiping them out immediately, what was it that eventually gave us the advantage?
Many ideas have been put forward by scientists: our capacity to produce art, language and possibly a better brain. But Prof Stringer believes it was because we were more organised.
"We were networking better, our social groups were larger, we were storing knowledge better and we built on that knowledge," he said.
The idea of a prolonged interaction with Neanderthals fits in with the discovery made in 2010 that modern humans have a small amount of Neanderthal DNA, indicating that the two species interbred, according to Prof Stringer.
PureX
Veteran Member
Empathy, a sense of shared well-being, a desire to live in peace, and a calling to a higher purpose: to leave the world and it's people a little better than we found them.