Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

[dybmh]

all you need to do is look at expressly atheist societies and see how degenerate they are. nominally religious societies are also degenerate but that is not because of religion but despite it.

there is no such thing as an atheist, whatever is your priority in life, who are whatever you think is the most powerful entity on earth, whatever you get up in the morning for is your "god", even if it is not much of a god and you have nothing in particular to live for.

I completely disagree, but, none the less, it's great to see you back here Chris. I hope all is well for you

 

[Sand Dancer]

the developed world is disintegrating and the world is circling the drain

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion...

 

[Sand Dancer]

My conscience, my love of community and fellow humans.
People who ask that question are actually saying, "If it wasn't for my fear of my deity and their promise of an afterlife, I'd be a murderer/rapist/thief."
Atheists don't think that, they are good because it makes life better for all.

Fear of afterlife punishment is about as much of a deterrent as the death penalty. Both are decades or more in the future.

 

[Altfish]

God you live in a rough area.

It is since I moved there.

 

[icehorse]

all you need to do is look at expressly atheist societies and see how degenerate they are. nominally religious societies are also degenerate but that is not because of religion but despite it.

there is no such thing as an atheist, whatever is your priority in life, who are whatever you think is the most powerful entity on earth, whatever you get up in the morning for is your "god", even if it is not much of a god and you have nothing in particular to live for.

Can you give an example or two of "expressly atheist societies"?

If you're thinking of the communist regimes of the 20th century, I will preemptively say that they were not atheistic. Instead, they were led by leaders who tried to et themselves up as demigods. They were personality cults.

 

[Kenny]

I'd suppose this depends on what you view as moral behavior but I thought I'd ask the question to see what people would say.

I think this is the point!

And, does this have anything to do with the decline of religious belief?

IMV, yes assuming that the moral code as expressed in my scriptures are true. (within the context of my signature.)

Of course, I also believe that morality is ingrained by God in the human spirit - so there are many crossovers of agreed morality with the argument that one believes that God put it there and the other side believes He didn't.

 

[George-ananda]

If I were an atheist, I might be more influenced by a 'nothing really matters anyway' attitude leading to more self-centered behavior that some might label immoral.

 

[chris baron]

And you believe that people aren't capable of empathy or compassion without religion?

people who are truly compassionate have expanded consciousness, they are not immobilized and blinded by self interest; their perceptions stuck in this 1 dimensional world. a selfish egocentric mind isn't broad enough to include God it's too preoccupied with self aggrandisement

 

[chris baron]

Can you give an example or two of "expressly atheist societies"?

If you're thinking of the communist regimes of the 20th century, I will preemptively say that they were not atheistic. Instead, they were led by leaders who tried to et themselves up as demigods. They were personality cults.

that just goes to show that their really is no such thing as an atheist.

Atheism is not the knowledge that God does not exist, but only the wish that He did not, in order that one could sin without reproach or exalt one's ego without challenge.

 

[SkepticThinker]

that just goes to show that their really is no such thing as an atheist.

No it doesn't.

Atheism is not the knowledge that God does not exist, but only the wish that He did not, in order that one could sin without reproach or exalt one's ego without challenge.

Atheism is a lack of belief in god(s).

 

[icehorse]

that just goes to show that their really is no such thing as an atheist.

Atheism is not the knowledge that God does not exist, but only the wish that He did not, in order that one could sin without reproach or exalt one's ego without challenge.

Wow, that's a whole lot of guessing and fabrication on your part! I would say you're simply dead wrong on many counts

 

[Father Heathen]

people who are truly compassionate have expanded consciousness, they are not immobilized and blinded by self interest; their perceptions stuck in this 1 dimensional world. a selfish egocentric mind isn't broad enough to include God it's too preoccupied with self aggrandisement

Nonsense. You've provided nothing more than strawman fallacies and non sequiturs.

 

[icehorse]

If I were an atheist, I might be more influenced by a 'nothing really matters anyway' attitude leading to more self-centered behavior that some might label immoral.

Can you connect the dots? In other words, how did you go from:

- if I was an atheist

- then I might be more self centered?

Because in my experience, atheists tend to be MORE moral than theists. I'm suspicious of theists who are moral because they fear their god(s).

 

[chris baron]

Nonsense. You've provided nothing more than strawman fallacies and non sequiturs.

Devoid of purity, good conduct and truth, and having no faith in God or a higher Reality beyond this visible world, man degenerates into a two-legged beast of ugly character and cruel actions, and sinks into darkness. Such a person becomes his own enemy and the destroyer of the happiness of others as well as his own.

 

[chris baron]

If religion is the answer, do you view theocracies such as Iran or Saudi Arabia as ideal models?

there are no real theocratic societies in the world. the closest the world got to sanity was king david and the kings that succeeded him but all that disintegrated and we're still, today, stuck with the aftermath.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Devoid of purity, good conduct and truth, and having no faith in God or a higher Reality beyond this visible world, man degenerates into a two-legged beast of ugly character and cruel actions, and sinks into darkness. Such a person becomes his own enemy and the destroyer of the happiness of others as well as his own.

Have you been looking at Afghanistan or Iran too much recently?

 

[SkepticThinker]

there are no real theocratic societies in the world. the closest the world got to sanity was king david and the kings that succeeded him but all that disintegrated and we're still, today, stuck with the aftermath.

How about back when "The Church" ran most of the world? How did that go?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

there are no real theocratic societies in the world. the closest the world got to sanity was king david and the kings that succeeded him but all that disintegrated and we're still, today, stuck with the aftermath.

I would agree with that comment.

Mankind has yet to implement the laws as given by God. Islam did not succeed, though at one time it was better than others at it.

Modern day Islam has totally failed.

Islam became the beast as foretold in the Bible.

Regards Tony

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

all you need to do is look at expressly atheist societies and see how degenerate they are.

Really? Humanist have led the world forward for the last several centuries, while the religions have contributed nothing of value while confusing and misdirecting people. Humanism gave the world science and the modern liberal democratic state with guaranteed rights and progressive reforms that transformed people from uneducated subjects mostly living in filth and squalor to autonomous citizens with economic and social opportunities not depending on birthrights or the fortunes of ancestors. Science made their lives longer, more functional, safer, more comfortable, easier, and more interesting. Why? Reason replaced faith in these matters, and the Enlightenment was born.

All the while, the religions are STILL teaching that faith is a virtue and cognitive dissonance about religious dogma is a demon trying to steal their souls. Their still promoting ancient, irrational, divisive, and destructive prejudices about unbelievers and gay people, and what constitutes truth, morality, or spirituality. You can turn to the humanists for instruction on those. Spoiler: truth doesn't come from guessing, morality doesn't come from a book, and spirituality has nothing to do with spirits.

nominally religious societies are also degenerate but that is not because of religion but despite it.

Is there any more degenerate a demographic in America than its white evangelicals? They're made that way by their religion. Who else is telling them to force unwanted births and that LGTBQ+ deserve their contempt and oppression? Nobody except hateful, ignorant people speaking for Jesus.

there is no such thing as an atheist, whatever is your priority in life, who are whatever you think is the most powerful entity on earth, whatever you get up in the morning for is your "god"

I'll leave gods to the faithful. Worship is beneath human dignity.

even if it is not much of a god and you have nothing in particular to live for.

That describes Christianity, it's indolent god, and its adherents that can't wait to die and move on to something better. I don't know as much about your religion, but I doubt that it's much different.

How many have told us that without the hope of an afterlife, life has no meaning and there is no reason to behave morally. What does this tell us about the meaning in their lives to them, and what motivates their behavior? Life is a staging room for them for getting to heaven and has no inherent value if they don't hope for and then get pie in the sky, and they're playing a part until then imitating what they think good behavior looks like when being watched, which usually turns out to be politeness, a lot of smiling, several 'Jesus loves you,' and glad handing - just like at church or, when the Witnesses come a-knockin'. Are these lives well lived? No.

The heavy lifting is being done by humanists and those who share their values who might not call themselves such as the pagans, Dharmics, and even some liberal Abrahamics whose thesim seems to have no adverse effect on them. They can still reason and refuse to be homophobic.

Canadian doctors encouraged to bring up medically assisted death before their patients do

You seem to consider that unethical. Your religious values are not those of humanists. I support having this option. I want it for myself and everybody else that wants it for themselves, and don't really care what theists have been taught about euthanasia or physician assisted suicide. Their beliefs are given to them, and they imbibe them uncritically. That anybody would deprive them of that option based in irrational beliefs is what I consider immoral.

the developed world is disintegrating and the world is circling the drain

Another religious trope. Another idea fed to the faithful and accepted uncritically. The world is better off than it has ever been. More people than ever are educated, own homes, and are living long, comfortable, satisfying lives.

I've recently told this story here a few times about the Witnesses who last came to my door. They opened with that assumption and were stymied when I disagreed. They actually left me despite being polite to them and being willing to talk with them. They say that dog bites man is not news but man bites dog is. Well, JWs slamming the door is a potential customer's face is news.

And I can never forget the JW seen on RF frequently until about a year or two ago, who became angry at me for this attitude. How can I say that I'm happy or be happy with so much suffering in the world. She called it selfish. Oh well, that's her cross to bear living under such a cloud of nihilism and the price she must pay for not using her own senses and mind to see how many happy people there are in the world.

compassion, sympathy and the desire to see others be happy discourages immoral behavior

Yes, and religion doesn't do as good a job of promoting those as humanism. Who is showing those things to LGBTQ+ and the immigrants at the border? Certainly not the Christian governors of Texas or Florida. Who stands for women's rights in America? The Christians want to make them incubators. Sorry, but the myth of religious goodness is just that. Where was the church during the pandemic when the humanist governments were promoting science, distributing vaccines, and saving businesses? Where is it for anything important? Nowhere to be found, just counting tithes and spouting empty platitudes like the pope.

If you want to demean atheism, perhaps you should have your ducks in a row first lest someone come along and embarrass you and you church. It needn't be an atheist, either. There are liberal, educated Christians here that could make this same argument, albeit in a different voice. How many Christians also reject the homophobia and nihilism of Christianity, who accept the science and respect reason and empiricism, who refuse to hate atheists or call them degenerate, who support choice for women, who support church-state separation just like any atheistic humanist?

 

[RestlessSoul]

How about back when "The Church" ran most of the world? How did that go?

When did 'The Church' run most, or indeed any, of the world?