Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

[Valjean]

No .. nobody is the property of another.
We are born as an individual, and return to G-d as an individual.

Good Muslim men are for good Muslim women..
..and good Muslim women are for good Muslim men.

The rest are for each other, and they do whatever tickles their fancy.

In theory, perhaps.
But in practice power relationships are often very unequal, as are social and legal rights.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

In theory, perhaps.
But in practice power relationships, are often very unequal, as are social and legal rights.

No, that is the consequence of bad people. Remember only good people are Muslims and bad Muslims are not Muslims. There is not wrong with Islam. That is the fault of bad people.

 

[Polymath257]

..all very well in theory .. but in practice, it is a nonsense.

..and that is the main reason why "rape" prosecutions are so few.
It is not due to lack of funding .. although economic concerns are part of reality..
..it is about how to prove it was without consent .. which is NOT difficult to do in a society
that does not accept sex outside of marriage.

Really? How does a woman show she said no to her husband?

Are you saying that a husband cannot rape his wife?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

No .. nobody is the property of another.
We are born as an individual, and return to G-d as an individual.

Good Muslim men are for good Muslim women..
..and good Muslim women are for good Muslim men.

The rest are for each other, and they do whatever tickles their fancy.

I expected you to say something to that effect, which is why I didn't ask you. I didn't expect you to criticize your religion, so I asked a non-Muslim in the hopes that they could answer me. If not, I may approach a former Muslim I know who might be willing to speak with me. She was one of the battered women I assisted. I know a little bit about her story, which includes being beaten and threatened by her husband, as well as threatened by their family, for converting to Christianity. She sought refuge in a domestic abuse shelter because she was afraid for her life following her conversion, and she is still there.

 

[Orbit]

When I became an atheist I didn't suddenly become immoral. The premise of the thread is misguided.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Really? How does a woman show she said no to her husband?

Are you saying that a husband cannot rape his wife?

Let's go back to where this conversation all started 18 pages ago..

@Valjean said "It seems to me that religion often separates moral behavior from consequences. It justifies evil with scriptural law".

..and now we are discussing woman's rights?
We have our opinion, and you have yours.

I have made it clear.
Sexual intercourse between a man and wife cannot be considered "illegal" .. end of.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Sexual intercourse between a man and wife cannot be considered "illegal" .. end of.

Forcing sex on someone who says no should be illegal everywhere. I would help any woman or man escape from whatever monster thinks they can force their married partner to have sex.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I have made it clear.
Sexual intercourse between a man and wife cannot be considered "illegal" .. end of.

Most fortunately for the women who have been raped and sexually assaulted by their husbands, the law is on their side and not yours. It's very fortunate for any woman whose husband has been arrested, charged, and convicted of raping her by forcing her to have sex with him. Any man who forces his wife to have sex with him against her will is a disgusting pervert and a violent sexual predator. Nonconsensual sex, even within a marriage, is rape, and the man guilty of raping his wife by forcing her to have sex with him is a rapist and should be arrested and convicted of marital rape. He deserves to go to prison.

 

[F1fan]

IMOP activist atheist who put so much effort into trashing religion and undermining faith are evil people. The true live and let live atheist dont join religious forums to form a committee of critics.

Lots of biased language here. Activist atheists? As if atheists shouldn’t speak their minds. Trashing religion? As if religions can’t be questioned. And how is your bad attitude towards atheists who debate not trashing them? You assert the “good” atheist minds their own business. Meanwhile religious influences run rampant in politics all over the world including the USA. Its a duty to question claims and beliefs, not a bad thing as you assert.

The Atheist doctrines predict death as the final crowning insult of a life well lived. That's doom and gloom!

No, it’s following facts and using reason. The many religious ideas that promote some life after death do so without any evidence. The claims are often absurd and used to exploit the fear and anxiety of citizens. Believers are too willing to give away wisdom and understanding so they can offset the anxiety that they let rule their lives. That’s not life in my view.

"To the unbelieving materialist, man is simply an evolutionary accident. His hopes of survival are strung on a figment of mortal imagination; his fears, loves, longings, and beliefs are but the reaction of the incidental juxtaposition of certain lifeless atoms of matter. No display of energy nor expression of trust can carry him beyond the grave. The devotional labors and inspirational genius of the best of men are doomed to be extinguished by death, the long and lonely night of eternal oblivion and soul extinction. Nameless despair is man’s only reward for living and toiling under the temporal sun of mortal existence. Each day of life slowly and surely tightens the grasp of a pitiless doom which a hostile and relentless universe of matter has decreed shall be the crowning insult to everything in human desire which is beautiful, noble, lofty, and good.​

​

But such is not man’s end and eternal destiny; such a vision is but the cry of despair uttered by some wandering soul who has become lost in spiritual darkness, and who bravely struggles on in the face of the mechanistic sophistries of a material philosophy, blinded by the confusion and distortion of a complex learning. And all this doom of darkness and all this destiny of despair are forever dispelled by one brave stretch of faith on the part of the most humble and unlearned of God’s children on earth.​

​

This saving faith has its birth in the human heart when the moral consciousness of man realizes that human values may be translated in mortal experience from the material to the spiritual, from the human to the divine, from time to eternity." UB 1955 IMOP​

I don’t know why you keep citing a book that has no credibility or relevance to those outside your tribe. It only means something to people who have decided it means something to them.

 

[Valjean]

No, that is the consequence of bad people. Remember only good people are Muslims and bad Muslims are not Muslims. There is not wrong with Islam. That is the fault of bad people.

No true Muslim! eh?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

No true Muslim! eh?

I consider the post you quoted as a feeble attempt at a No True Scotsman.

 

[Valjean]

Let's go back to where this conversation all started 18 pages ago..

@Valjean said "It seems to me that religion often separates moral behavior from consequences. It justifies evil with scriptural law".

..and now we are discussing woman's rights?
We have our opinion, and you have yours.

I have made it clear.
Sexual intercourse between a man and wife cannot be considered "illegal" .. end of.

It's not the sex act that's at issue, it's the assault. Forced sexual congress is an assault.

 

[Valjean]

I consider the post you quoted as a feeble attempt at a No True Scotsman.

Interesting...
Which post are you referring to?

 

[muhammad_isa]

It's not the sex act that's at issue, it's the assault. Forced sexual congress is an assault.

Nonsense. It is all about your perceived injustice towards women.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Interesting...
Which post are you referring to?

Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

No .. nobody is the property of another. We are born as an individual, and return to G-d as an individual. Good Muslim men are for good Muslim women.. ..and good Muslim women are for good Muslim men. The rest are for each other, and they do whatever tickles their fancy. ;) In theory, perhaps...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[F1fan]

I have made it clear.
Sexual intercourse between a man and wife cannot be considered "illegal" .. end of.

Straw man. No one is claiming this. You know it. Notice how you don't even acknowledge rape as an issue.

You don't seem to think women have rights in a marriage, as if they are property and can't have their own choice as to what happens to her body as an object of sex. Is this not your attitude towards women?

 

[Colt]

Lots of biased language here. Activist atheists? As if atheists shouldn’t speak their minds. Trashing religion? As if religions can’t be questioned. And how is your bad attitude towards atheists who debate not trashing them? You assert the “good” atheist minds their own business. Meanwhile religious influences run rampant in politics all over the world including the USA. Its a duty to question claims and beliefs, not a bad thing as you assert.

No, it’s following facts and using reason. The many religious ideas that promote some life after death do so without any evidence. The claims are often absurd and used to exploit the fear and anxiety of citizens. Believers are too willing to give away wisdom and understanding so they can offset the anxiety that they let rule their lives. That’s not life in my view.

I don’t know why you keep citing a book that has no credibility or relevance to those outside your tribe. It only means something to people who have decided it means something to them.

Yes, activist atheists are discontent with just being nonbelievers. The activist atheist promotes the religion of atheism on religious forums rather than atheist forums. IMOP

The spiritual and philosophical truths of the UB are self evident. I don’t care if you don’t like it, don’t respond to my posts if it challenges you too much.

 

[muhammad_isa]

You don't seem to think women have rights in a marriage..

Of course I do..
The Qur'an lays them out clearly.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Really? How does a woman show she said no to her husband?

That is not a matter for the police.
In a society where sex before marriage is not acceptable, consent does not come into it.

 

[F1fan]

Yes, activist atheists are discontent with just being nonbelievers.

Do you think atheists and theists who don't think religion should interfere and influence politics ought to remain silent? Don't you believe in the 1st Amendment, the right to free speech?

The activist atheist promotes the religion of atheism on religious forums rather than atheist forums. IMOP

So non-theism is a form of theism? Explain that thinking. It's kinda like non-fruit is a type of fruit.

And if atheism is a religion, and it's bad, then religion can be bad. Is that what you want others to think is your attitude, that religion is bad?

The spiritual and philosophical truths of the UB are self evident.

No they aren't. the book is fillied with all sorts of nonsense that has no basis in fact. The one thing that turned me off was the references to all the different colors of aliens. Did the writer really need to add aliens to a religious book? The Urantia book has some good advice here and there, as a book 2000 pages would have just by virtue of the volume of words. This doesn't make it truth or divine. You can think it means something svecial, but that ends with you and your tribe of UB believers. If you think the UB is special and offers something, feel free to start a thread and challenge others to read it.

I don’t care if you don’t like it, don’t respond to my posts if it challenges you too much.

And the insult that indicates a wounded ego. I just responded to another theist who is being nasty and insulting. What gets me is that believers of fringe religious movements don't realize they are ambassadors, and by being petty and insulting it indicates whatever truth you think you found is not working. If believers were really tapped into some sort of truth and they were enlightened and superior as spiritual beings, it would show in the character of these folks. It's a huge red flag when it doesn't.