Does belief in God prevent people from killing?

[uss_bigd]

So we don't have to accept Christ, we just have to be ignorant or mentally deficient. Is that the general idea? I'm sorry for letting the reason and intellect "that God gave me" get in the way of my ignorance and blind faith.

As a general rule: you have to have faith, repent, be baptized and do good works to be saved.

There are exceptions:
1. if you ae not able to have faith because you have no ability to have faith( like retards and the like) or when you cannot sin (children). then you are automatically saved
2. and God judges those from the outside, he can make other exception as well.

 

[Magic Man]

As a general rule: you have to have faith, repent, be baptized and do good works to be saved.

There are exceptions:
1. if you ae not able to have faith because you have no ability to have faith( like retards and the like) or when you cannot sin (children). then you are automatically saved
2. and God judges those from the outside, he can make other exception as well.

First, let me make one suggestion. I wouldn't call them "retards", unless you are looking for a negative reaction. Personally, I don't really care, but just don't be surprised if someone is offended and calls you on it. :cover:

Second, so, since the reason and intellect "that God gave me" render me "not able to have faith because I have no ability to have faith" due to the aforementioned reason and intellect, then I'm automatically saved, right?

 

[uss_bigd]

First, let me make one suggestion. I wouldn't call them "retards", unless you are looking for a negative reaction. Personally, I don't really care, but just don't be surprised if someone is offended and calls you on it. :cover:

Second, so, since the reason and intellect "that God gave me" render me "not able to have faith because I have no ability to have faith" due to the aforementioned reason and intellect, then I'm automatically saved, right?

You have the ability to have faith mball. Faith is the substance of things hoped for.

You are hoping that there is no God, no afterlife, no eternal punishment. That is faith right there.

 

[Magic Man]

You have the ability to have faith mball. Faith is the substance of things hoped for.

You are hoping that there is no God, no afterlife, no eternal punishment. That is faith right there.

Why exactly would I hope for no afterlife? I'm pretty sure any human being you ask would like to think that they continue living somehow after they die in this world.

I have the ability to have faith, but it is blocked by other abilities "given to me by the same God who wants me to have faith".

 

[uss_bigd]

Why exactly would I hope for no afterlife? I'm pretty sure any human being you ask would like to think that they continue living somehow after they die in this world.

I have the ability to have faith, but it is blocked by other abilities "given to me by the same God who wants me to have faith".

we all have free will.

 

[Magic Man]

we all have free will.

Including the mentally challenged. Why do they get a free pass, then?

 

[uss_bigd]

Including the mentally challenged. Why do they get a free pass, then?

Because they dont have the capacity to reason, therefore not able to have faith in Jesus' teachings. Mentally challenged people are not really making a conscious choice you know?

 

[Magic Man]

Because they dont have the capacity to reason, therefore not able to have faith in Jesus' teachings. Mentally challenged people are not really making a conscious choice you know?

Really? You might want to tell them that, then. As far as I know, they have just as much knowledge of the difference between right and wrong as most people of normal intelligence. You might want to do a little research into this matter before digging yourself any deeper.

What seperates us from the animals, in your opinion? Is it not our ability to reason? Would the fact that the mentally challenged don't have the capacity to reason make them animals then?

 

[linwood]

I supplied the verse below. but first let me ask you, what is required for baptism?
isn't repentance and faith?

Yes, that and submersion in water.

Which leads me to the question, “How can a child repent or have faith?”

Most children believe what their parents tell them, they do not have any real foundation for what one calls “faith” in Jesus until they are old enough to actually understand what it means.
As for whether or not they “sin at all” all humans are born with the stain of original sin upon them. They need not sin at all to be sinners due to this doctrine.

Then there is the argument of infants and those who will never even hear of Christ’s message they surely are hell bound.

The verse you cite does not state that children get an auto pass into heaven.

Matt 18 :3-4 .. and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

The verse above pertains to the ignorance of a child, a child does not question, a child is not worldly, a child can be easily led.
You must be as “humble” as a child to enter heaven.
It does not say “Children enter heaven”

The verses below state what is necessary for salvation.

John14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me
Matt13:23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
John3:5 5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

 

[linwood]

There are exceptions:
1. if you ae not able to have faith because you have no ability to have faith( like retards and the like) or when you cannot sin (children). then you are automatically saved

Please support this assertion Biblically.

 

[uss_bigd]

Yes, that and submersion in water.

Which leads me to the question, “How can a child repent or have faith?”

Most children believe what their parents tell them, they do not have any real foundation for what one calls “faith” in Jesus until they are old enough to actually understand what it means.

As for whether or not they “sin at all” all humans are born with the stain of original sin upon them. They need not sin at all to be sinners due to this doctrine.

Then there is the argument of infants and those who will never even hear of Christ’s message they surely are hell bound.

The verse you cite does not state that children get an auto pass into heaven.

Matt 18 :3-4 .. and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

The verse above pertains to the ignorance of a child, a child does not question, a child is not worldly, a child can be easily led.
You must be as “humble” as a child to enter heaven.
It does not say “Children enter heaven”

The verses below state what is necessary for salvation.

John14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me
Matt13:23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
John3:5 5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Exacly, and a child is not able to fully understand yet. hence they are exempted from that requirement.

 

[linwood]

Exacly, and a child is not able to fully understand yet. hence they are exempted from that requirement.

Please support this assertion Biblically.

 

[uss_bigd]

Please support this assertion Biblically.

Let us read the verse again.

Matthew 18:1

"At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

The question is in present tense, not future.


Matthew 18:3
"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

as you said, if you are not humble as a child you will enter heaven.

Matthew 18:4

Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven."

Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? if people who hasthe humility of children are greatest in heaven so much so then that the real child himself is greatest in heaven.

AND,

Matthew 8:5
"And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me'


if children will not be received in heaven verse 5 is violated.


FINALLY,

MATTHEW 19:14

' But Jesus said, Suffer the little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for to such belongeth the kingdom of heaven."

WHERE DO LITTLE CHILDEN AND AS SUCH BELONG?????
the kingdom of heaven....

 

[linwood]

Let us read the verse again.

Lets take this in context.

Matt18:1-6
1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”2 Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, 3 and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me. 6 “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Notice the stipulation in verse 3 "unless you are converted".
In other words "unless you believe in me".
In order to be converted Jesus is saying that one must become as a child.

You`re missing an telling part in your pasting, you forgot verse 6.
6 “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

"who believe in me"

The qualifier in verse 6 is highlighted in red.
The children Jesus is talking about already have faith in him and therefore qualify to enter heaven.

Here is yet another version of the story Mark 10:13-16

13 Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.” 16 And He took them up in His arms, laid His hands on them, and blessed them.

Highlighted above..
15 Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”

That`s pretty clear, only children who have faith in Jesus can enter the kingdom of God.
Mark16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

However I believe we`re getting way off topic for this thread.
There is already an ancient thread on this subject if you want to continue..

Infant Baptism

 

[Autodidact]

Well, I think that this thread has demonstrated, in the words of some people who believe in a specific God (Yahweh) that not only does belief in Him not prevent killing, it encourages it. That appears to be because of their belief that when children and Christians die, they enter an eternal life without hunger or thirst, which is preferable to this life. For that reason, killing Christians and children is a good thing, under this belief system, as uss_ has maintained. I'm not sure what their rationalization is for killing others--I guess it's that their wicked so they deserve what they get. In this way, killing everyone is considered worthy, especially when God commands it. In short, Andrea Yates was right.

 

[uss_bigd]

Lets take this in context.

Matt18:1-6
1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”2 Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, 3 and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me. 6 “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Notice the stipulation in verse 3 "unless you are converted".
In other words "unless you believe in me".
In order to be converted Jesus is saying that one must become as a child.

You`re missing an telling part in your pasting, you forgot verse 6.
6 “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

"who believe in me"

The qualifier in verse 6 is highlighted in red.
The children Jesus is talking about already have faith in him and therefore qualify to enter heaven.

Here is yet another version of the story Mark 10:13-16

13 Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.” 16 And He took them up in His arms, laid His hands on them, and blessed them.

Highlighted above..
15 Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”

That`s pretty clear, only children who have faith in Jesus can enter the kingdom of God.
Mark16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

However I believe we`re getting way off topic for this thread.
There is already an ancient thread on this subject if you want to continue..

Infant Baptism

This is a broad discussion, i need sometime to set up a satisfactory reply. I can supply you with verses saying infants are not baptized.

however, you completely ignored this verse.


MATTHEW 19:14

'"But Jesus said, Suffer the little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for to such belongeth the kingdom of heaven."

WHERE DO LITTLE CHILDEN AND AS SUCH BELONG?????
the kingdom of heaven....

 

[pray4me]

Why do people need some sort of surveillance in the sky or a holy text to tell them not to kill? I, along with most people in the world, would never kill anyone because I believe it causes hurt and suffering and is unjust; not because "God told me not to."

The God described in our Christian bible actually advocates killing, including children. In Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants. In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war. In Numbers 31, the Lord tells Moses to kill all the Midianites, sparing only the virgins. In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently, and the list goes on.....

Most think of the Muslim extremists as being terrorists and murderers, but they are actually following God's word. Thank goodness many people in our country, including those who consider themselves Christian, ignore much of the Bible and allow human kindness, compassion, and reason rule their lives instead.

I have a little trouble understanding how our Christian churches interpret the Bible to portray God as loving and forgiving, but thank goodness they do!! Many of my friends who attend church regularly are kind people. But I think they would be kind regardless of whether or not they went to church. I don't think they would run out and kill anyone if they decided there was no God

Yet the same God would not allow David to build him a temple because he had shed a lot of blood 1Chronicles 22:7-8

 

[texan1]

I'm not quite sure what your point is with this verse from Chronicles. God demanded bloodshed, but then he made up for it by saying don't build a temple for me? Seems like he's getting off easy.

 

[pray4me]

I guess my point is that maybe it was man's twisting of his word that caused the bloodshed and not something he actually wanted. After all look at the centuries since. All the "Holy" wars that have taken place, those men also thought they were doing the "will of God." The bible was written by men so who's to say they weren't mistaken in some of what they wrote.

 

[texan1]

Gotcha.