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Does believing, thinking or feeling something is true actually make it true?

I

Ignatius A

Well-Known Member
In recent discussions about gender identity it was said that gender identity is validated by what the person believes, thinks and feels. Fine. The follow question was then posted: Is someone with a penis who believes, thinks and feels that they are woman, actually a woman? The common response was, it's not a yes or no question. Is that true? If a person said they believe, think and feel that they are a frog mean they are actually a frog? Could we not say to that person you are an amphibian?
 
mikkel_the_dane

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Ignatius A said:
In recent discussions about gender identity it was said that gender identity is validated by what the person believes, thinks and feels. Fine. The follow question was then posted: Is someone with a penis who believes, thinks and feels that they are woman, actually a woman? The common response was, it's not a yes or no question. Is that true? If a person said they believe, think and feel that they are a frog mean they are actually a frog? Could we not say to that person you are an amphibian?
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As far as I can tell, sex is the outward apperance where as gender is how the brain think/feel it.

So for gender there is no independent of the mind standard and thus a person with penis who feels like a woman as gender is for gender a woman.
 
Wandering Monk

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Ignatius A said:
In recent discussions about gender identity it was said that gender identity is validated by what the person believes, thinks and feels. Fine. The follow question was then posted: Is someone with a penis who believes, thinks and feels that they are woman, actually a woman? The common response was, it's not a yes or no question. Is that true? If a person said they believe, think and feel that they are a frog mean they are actually a frog? Could we not say to that person you are an amphibian?
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How is this YOUR problem?
 
SalixIncendium

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
Ignatius A said:
In recent discussions about gender identity it was said that gender identity is validated by what the person believes, thinks and feels. Fine. The follow question was then posted: Is someone with a penis who believes, thinks and feels that they are woman, actually a woman? The common response was, it's not a yes or no question. Is that true? If a person said they believe, think and feel that they are a frog mean they are actually a frog? Could we not say to that person you are an amphibian?
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You do know that 'man' and 'woman,' aren't taxonomic orders, yes?
 
I

Ignatius A

Well-Known Member
mikkel_the_dane said:
As far as I can tell, sex is the outward apperance where as gender is how the brain think/feel it.

So for gender there is no independent of the mind standard and thus a person with penis who feels like a woman as gender is for gender a woman.
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Is actually a woman in their mind. The question was do you think that person is actually a woman?
 
bobhikes

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
Ignatius A said:
In recent discussions about gender identity it was said that gender identity is validated by what the person believes, thinks and feels. Fine. The follow question was then posted: Is someone with a penis who believes, thinks and feels that they are woman, actually a woman? The common response was, it's not a yes or no question. Is that true? If a person said they believe, think and feel that they are a frog mean they are actually a frog? Could we not say to that person you are an amphibian?
Click to expand...
The answer to the posted question is Yes it makes it true for the person that believes, feels and thinks it is true. Is it true for everyone else without investigation you cannot know.
 
Wandering Monk

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Ignatius A said:
It's a question not a problem. The problem seems to be with people can't seem to say what they think.
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A person should be afforded the courtesy of being treated as whatever gender they associate with, if for no other reason than to make their lives better. People with gender dysphoria are under great stress because of other peoples expectations and compliance demands. How about just leaving them the hell alone?
 
I

Ignatius A

Well-Known Member
Wandering Monk said:
A person should be afforded the courtesy of being treated as whatever gender they associate with, if for no other reason than to make their lives better. People with gender dysphoria are under great stress because of other peoples expectations and compliance demands. How about just leaving them the hell alone?
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Ok but that has nothing to do with the question. Why do people rage on like this?
 
bobhikes

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
Ignatius A said:
Yes. You said it's true for the person, which isnt the same as its actually true.
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That would depend on your definition of reality. If a person believes feels and thinks it is true, then it is true to them and will be unless they are shown different. It will actually be a truth to them. If you already have a specific definition for what is actually true, then why ask the question?
 
I

Ignatius A

Well-Known Member
bobhikes said:
That would depend on your definition of reality. If a person believes feels and thinks it is true, then it is true to them and will be unless they are shown different. It will actually be a truth to them. If you already have a specific definition for what is actually true, then why ask the question?
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Ok fair enough. Different question. Do you think someone with a penis who believes thinks and feels that they are a woman, is actually a woman?
 
Spice

Spice

StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
In Native American tradition, or at least in some, an effeminate male and a masculine female are considered blessed in that they are closer to being whole, closer to perfection, closer to being in tuned to the Great Spirit that is not divided in the divine.

Even in the Gospel of Philip, a non-canonized Christian writing, and, yes, it can be read in a different context, but it's Gnostic, so the meaning can be tricky, but it says: And none shall be able to escape them, since they detain him if he does not receive a male power or a female power, the bridegroom and the bride. One receives them from the mirrored bridal chamber.

Let's not second guess the Creator's creations. If shaped by the evil of man, give compassion and let them be. All have the right to say "I am not a man, I am not a woman, I am, I am."
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Ignatius A said:
In recent discussions about gender identity it was said that gender identity is validated by what the person believes, thinks and feels. Fine. The follow question was then posted: Is someone with a penis who believes, thinks and feels that they are woman, actually a woman? The common response was, it's not a yes or no question. Is that true? If a person said they believe, think and feel that they are a frog mean they are actually a frog? Could we not say to that person you are an amphibian?
Click to expand...

The only thing necessarily true would be your feeling that it is true.
Otherwise no. Your feelings about what is true are not relevant to what is true.

However some see their feelings as more important than what is true. You get to decide which is more important. To you anyway.
 
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