Does believing, thinking or feeling something is true actually make it true?

[bobhikes]

Ok fair enough. Different question. Do you think someone with a penis who believes thinks and feels that they are a woman, is actually a woman?

What I think doesn't make it true.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's a question not a problem.

And a good one with broad application. So, for example:

Does believing, thinking, or feeling that the virgin birth and resurrection narratives are true actually make it true?​

The general answer to the generalized question is no, but, in terms of this particular thread

• we are the product of gender binary culture that is being increasingly challenged, such that
• the question as constructed may not be particularly helpful.

If a person born biologically male identifies as female, my responsibility (imo) is to respect her gender identity.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

In recent discussions about gender identity it was said that gender identity is validated by what the person believes, thinks and feels. Fine. The follow question was then posted: Is someone with a penis who believes, thinks and feels that they are woman, actually a woman? The common response was, it's not a yes or no question. Is that true? If a person said they believe, think and feel that they are a frog mean they are actually a frog? Could we not say to that person you are an amphibian?

I don't know very many people who like classical music, but really, it's almost the only music that I listen to. Where is "favourite music" stored in the human body? Some people love Brussels sprouts, or calves liver, or milk chocolate, and others hate them. What part of the body is the source of that?

When I was very young, I was called Jack Main, because my mother married a man whose last name was Main, but he never adopted me. When I was 8, I learned that me real name is Jack Allen E****, and ever since, I have called myself Allen E****. I hated the name Jack because my mother's husband was a cruel SOB, so I never use it, and I am very comfortable using my real last name. (By the way, this happened to my father, too, as a found out a few years ago -- he didn't know his true last name until he was about to get married, and his step-father told him that since he'd never been adopted, his true last name was White, not Faulkner, as he'd thought.)

Did I change into something else when my name changed? Did my father? Okay, where is "name" to be found in the human body? It's not there -- it's a social construct, having nothing to do with our genetics or our phenotype.

When I was young, the term "fire fighter" was never used, because they were all men, and we called them universally "firemen." But there are women fire fighters now. Should there be? What used to prevent a woman from being a "firewoman" years ago that no longer does?

Your identity -- the person that you feel yourself to be -- is a function of your mind, not your body. Because, again, person is a social construct -- it is not physical. A human being is a biped -- something that walks on two legs. Yet, a person who has had there legs blown off in war is no less a person for it, are they?

Why, then, are we so hung up on sex organs? They seem to be the ONLY THING that really matters to a lot of people -- if you got one of those, you must think and act this way, but of you've got the other, then you must think and act some other way.

Is that really, really important to you?

 

[Ignatius A]

Do you mean gender or sex? To me that person is a woman with a penis.

So actually is a woman who happens to have a penis. Thanks.

 

[Ignatius A]

And a good one with broad application. So, for example:

Does believing, thinking, or feeling that the virgin birth and resurrection narratives are true actually make it true?​

The general answer to the generalized question is no, but, in terms of this particular thread

• we are the product of gender binary culture that is being increasingly challenged, such that
• the question as constructed may not be particularly helpful.

If a person born biologically male identifies as female, my responsibility (imo) is to respect her gender identity.

The question is are they actually a female.

 

[sayak83]

Is actually a woman in their mind. The question was do you think that person is actually a woman?

Yes if the doctor says so.
Thanks.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I don't know very many people who like classical music, but really, it's almost the only music that I listen to.

Do you like opera?

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

In recent discussions about gender identity it was said that gender identity is validated by what the person believes, thinks and feels. Fine. The follow question was then posted: Is someone with a penis who believes, thinks and feels that they are woman, actually a woman? The common response was, it's not a yes or no question. Is that true? If a person said they believe, think and feel that they are a frog mean they are actually a frog? Could we not say to that person you are an amphibian?

I think you are forgetting to accurately distinguish between sex and gender.

To use your frog analogy: frogs exist physically but “frogness” would be an experience based on the idea (social construction) of what we think it means to be a frog.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The question is are they actually a female.

No, that was not your question.

 

[PureX]

In recent discussions about gender identity it was said that gender identity is validated by what the person believes, thinks and feels. Fine. The follow question was then posted: Is someone with a penis who believes, thinks and feels that they are woman, actually a woman? The common response was, it's not a yes or no question. Is that true? If a person said they believe, think and feel that they are a frog mean they are actually a frog? Could we not say to that person you are an amphibian?

The problem here is that you are seeking a singular answer when there is not one.

A man standing in front of a train as it speeds toward him will hear the train's horn a step higher in pitch then a man riding on that train will hear that same horn. And a man standing behind the train as it is moving away will hear that same horn a step lower in pitch than the man on the train, and two steps lower than the man in front of the train. So there is no singular answer regarding the pitch of the train's horn, because the pitch differs relative to the trains movement and the position of the listener.

The sexual identity of a human being can be determined via a number of different factors. And each of those factors may determine their own unique conclusion. Genitalia is a common means of determining gender, but it is not the only means, and other means are now becoming more commonplace. Even to the point of usurping genitalia as the main determining factor. So we will likely get different answers from different people when asked about a specific person's gender depending on which factors they hold to be the determinant factor. So we're going to need to get used to the idea that there is no singular answer to this question anymore.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Do you like opera?

I know most of the music and lyrics of at least 102 of them.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I know most of the music and lyrics of at least 102 of them.

Wow! I can hum along with the humming chorus and bang out the anvil chorus, but that's about the end of it.

Speaking of Madama Butterfly, the upcoming Met/HD simulcast is much anticipated (and I love the puppetry).

 

[Twilight Hue]

In recent discussions about gender identity it was said that gender identity is validated by what the person believes, thinks and feels. Fine. The follow question was then posted: Is someone with a penis who believes, thinks and feels that they are woman, actually a woman? The common response was, it's not a yes or no question. Is that true? If a person said they believe, think and feel that they are a frog mean they are actually a frog? Could we not say to that person you are an amphibian?

Some people actually go that route and call themselves the most ridiculous things.

Most of it could be gender confusion but there are not as many people that actually have gender dysphoria where those figures are intentionally being inflated by activists.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Not sure why it's so hard for people to answer this simple question.

Because it is not a simple question. Not sure why you are unable to see that, except that you are wrongly conflating two different things: sex and gender.

Sex refers to a set of biological attributes in humans and animals. It is primarily associated with physical and physiological features including chromosomes, gene expression, hormone levels and function, and reproductive/sexual anatomy. Sex is usually categorized as female or male but there is variation in the biological attributes that comprise sex and how those attributes are expressed.​

https://cihr-irsc.gc.ca/e/48642.html​

Gender refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, expressions and identities of girls, women, boys, men, and gender diverse people. It influences how people perceive themselves and each other, how they act and interact, and the distribution of power and resources in society. Gender identity is not confined to a binary (girl/woman, boy/man) nor is it static; it exists along a continuum and can change over time. There is considerable diversity in how individuals and groups understand, experience and express gender through the roles they take on, the expectations placed on them, relations with others and the complex ways that gender is institutionalized in society.​

 

[Ignatius A]

Yes if the doctor says so.
Thanks.

So you need a doctor to tell you. Thanks.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The only thing necessarily true would be your feeling that it is true.
Otherwise no. Your feelings about what is true are not relevant to what is true.

However some see their feelings as more important than what is true. You get to decide which is more important. To you anyway.

The problem with that is that your defintion and standard of truth is not true, because it is based on what you think truth is.

 

[Nakosis]

The problem with that is that your defintion and standard of truth is not true, because it is based on what you think truth is.

How do you know what I think is true?

 

[Ignatius A]

I think you are forgetting to accurately distinguish between sex and gender.

To use your frog analogy: frogs exist physically but “frogness” would be an experience based on the idea (social construction) of what we think it means to be a frog.

Humbly,
Hermit

Fascinating take. I'm not forgetting it.

"Frogness" (what we think it means to be a frog) is not quite the sane as someone saying they believe, think and feel that they are a frog.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The question is are they actually a female.

You have to learn the difference between biological sex and that there is more than male and female. When you have learned that you have to learn that sex is not the same as gender.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

How do you know what I think is true?

There are no objective true or false. There are only different subjective standards. And that is neither true nor false. It is just one way to understand the world.
Learn to treat true and truth as God. Ideas some people believe in, but you don't have to believe in them to have a life.