Does Buddhism prohibit drugs?

[maxfreakout]

Yes, they do.

can you provide a quote where drugs in general (as opposed to just alcohol) are mentioned in an ancient buddhist text?

The entire code for monks is fashioned in such a way that it points out things that might might overlook if one was heedless--even down to not eating garlic unless one is sick. Monks are never supposed to even display any psychic powers to lay people, because that might cause the lay people to look down upon the monks who didn't have psychic powers. You might want to check out the Water Snake Simile where Buddha talks about the dangers of grasping his teachings in the wrong manner.

this is not relevant to what i am asking, im asking if drugs are prohibited in traditional buddhism

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

max, I think you're overlooking one thing: why did the Buddha denounce intoxicants? As crossfire pointed out, it was because of the effects on the mind. Any drug has the same effects on the mind, i.e., they cloud the mind, make it hard to focus, and nearly impossible to meditate. Just because other groups use drugs as mind altering substances, thinking they are getting "closer to God" or having some spiritual experience, it doesn't mean that it's ok.

 

[maxfreakout]

why did the Buddha denounce intoxicants?

where did the buddha denounce intoxicants? I am aware of the fifth precept which warns against alcohol, but where are "intoxicants" in general mentioned?

As crossfire pointed out, it was because of the effects on the mind. Any drug has the same effects on the mind

this is demonstrably untrue, different drugs have very different effects on the mind, and are used for different reasons. Some drugs are used to improve mental clarity.

i.e., they cloud the mind, make it hard to focus, and nearly impossible to meditate.

some drugs assist with meditation, such as cannabis (at least for some people), so would they be excluded?

Just because other groups use drugs as mind altering substances, thinking they are getting "closer to God" or having some spiritual experience, it doesn't mean that it's ok.

im only asking about buddhism in particular, whether it is 'ok' for a buddhist to take drugs

 

[SageTree]

So I have to ask...

What about drugs like Prozac, Aderall, Ritalin, Oxycotin.... et al... ?
Even when used correctly (not-carelessly) they intoxicate the mind with their effect.

What other things in this world intoxicate the mind, carelessly or otherwise?

What exactly is intoxication and carelessness?

 

[Murkve]

this is demonstrably untrue, different drugs have very different effects on the mind, and are used for different reasons. Some drugs are used to improve mental clarity.

You've said this a few times now. What are some examples of drugs that "improve mental clarity"? Because in my opinion Buddhism was meant to be developed with a pure mind, which to me means an unaided/unhindered mind.

 

[Straw Dog]

You've said this a few times now. What are some examples of drugs that "improve mental clarity"? Because in my opinion Buddhism was meant to be developed with a pure mind, which to me means an unaided/unhindered mind.

You've never seen the film Limitless? Smart pills are out there, man, that can make you use all of your brain instead of just the normal 20%.

Seriously though, intoxicate-use will always conflict with Buddhist doctrine, not only due to possible carelessness it may cause, but also because of the risk of either physical addiction or psychological attachment. Besides, if someone is stoned when they think they've reach enlightenment then how can they really know it actually happened?

 

[DreadFish]

Unfortunately, the word "drug" is incredibly broad and general. Nicotine and caffeine are "drugs" and they increase cognitive functioning as well as sharpening focus and clarity. Definition is important, because ibuprofen is a drug. Or are we talking about anything that influences the mind? Everything influences the mind, not just the chemicals we breathe or eat on purpose.

To paraphrase XKCD, we are basically bags of chemicals that ingest other chemicals to survive. Certain chemicals influence the brain to increase focus, certain chemicals make perception cloudy, certain chemicals make you sleepy (as in, when you eat too much and your brain secretes a chemical that makes you want to sleep), and certain chemicals make you die (like cyanide, or too much H2O, or even too much oxygen). But I thought oxygen was a good thing?? It's myriad cause and effect, everything conditioned.

I've seen a lot of people who dont use any "drugs" who are plain idiots or selfish, etc., and i've seen a lot of people who do use certain "drugs" and they are loving, intelligent, insightful. It goes either way. The point is in how someone responds to the conditions that are present.

Everything we do alters our minds, watching Jerry Springer is not conducive to a life of insight and calm.

So, im not promoting it, but im not denying it either. Let's look at the whole picture. Nonetheless, The Vinaya is clear in that any behavior that causes mental and physical inertia or too much passion is to be fully avoided; same as avoiding rajasic and tamasic foods and activities in yoga.

So, though its pretty clear that we should avoid things that cause excess inertia and passion, the whole "intoxicants that cause heedlessness" isn't all that straightforward. We're talking semantics here and plenty of people have different opinions on what causes mental clarity or fogginess. Like cocaine or speed, is that mental clarity or just a very sharp delusion?

The recorded teachings that we assume are the words of the Buddha are teachings directed at certain individuals and teachings directed at the masses. IMO, these are not necessarily absolute teachings. While obviously, an intelligent and aware person has the capacity to decided whether it's safe to go through a redlight they've been stopped at for 2 minutes in the middle of nowhere at 2am, many members of the general populace are not. This is why we have certain laws.

So, we can give you a clear answer in regards to what is doctrinally recorded about taking intoxicants, but your deeper answer in regards to reality itself wont come from anyone outside. Just be prudent and aware in whatever you do, though, dont necessarily discount any particular teachings either. With wholesome intentions, I feel like you will lead yourself in the right direction. But no drug will reveal truth in and of itself, thats why the Buddha also taught us to be "an island" and not be dependent on our environment. Realization doesn't come from anything outside of ourselves or by adding anything "extra" to the mix.

You know "be a lamp unto yourselves" and whatnot.


Sorry for the long answer, hope I made myself clear

 

[maxfreakout]

You've said this a few times now. What are some examples of drugs that "improve mental clarity"?

Some drugs increase mental alertness, such as caffeine and cocaine, some drugs cleanse the mental doors of perception such as mescaline and LSD, some drugs cause mystical experiences such as psilocybin

Because in my opinion Buddhism was meant to be developed with a pure mind, which to me means an unaided/unhindered mind.

so if a drug has the effect of purifying the mind, increasing the clarity of perception, then your version of buddhism would encourage it?

Also, how does your version of buddhism relate to traditional buddhism on this issue?

 

[Twilight Hue]

presumably this ^ applies to modern buddhism, but what about ancient buddhism, from the time of the buddha?

Nobody knows.

This applies to alcohol, but what about drugs that increase the clarity of perception?

The only "increase " is that of the experience of the drugs effects and your own opinion of it.

 

[maxfreakout]

So, we can give you a clear answer in regards to what is doctrinally recorded about taking intoxicants

what exactly is that 'clear answer' about buddhist doctrine? That is what i am asking. As far as i am aware, buddhist doctrine doesnt mention any drugs except to warn against alcohol in the fifth precept, is that correct? Or is there some mention of 'intoxicants' or drugs apart from alcohol (ie "distilled and fermented drinks causing heedlessness") in general somewhere in the scriptures, and if so, where?

 

[DreadFish]

what exactly is that 'clear answer' about buddhist doctrine? That is what i am asking. As far as i am aware, buddhist doctrine doesnt mention any drugs except to warn against alcohol in the fifth precept, is that correct? Or is there some mention of 'intoxicants' or drugs apart from alcohol (ie "distilled and fermented drinks causing heedlessness") in general somewhere in the scriptures, and if so, where?

Well, besides forms of alcohol, the only other "drugs" that I imagine were available in the area were datura, opium and ganja.

I dont know the etymology of the answer, but in my opinion, "intoxicants" is the less relevant part of the teaching. The principle of it is "avoid things that diminish calm, clarity and non-attachment. Avoid things that cause excess passion, inertia, attachment, heedlessness etc.."

So, I'd say, concern yourself less with the "drugs" and more with the effects that everything you do produces.

 

[Murkve]

Some drugs increase mental alertness, such as caffeine and cocaine, some drugs cleanse the mental doors of perception such as mescaline and LSD, some drugs cause mystical experiences such as psilocybin



so if a drug has the effect of purifying the mind, increasing the clarity of perception, then your version of buddhism would encourage it?

Also, how does your version of buddhism relate to traditional buddhism on this issue?

How do my views relate to traditional Buddhism? The Tathagata said:

“Do not go by oral tradition, by lineage of teaching, by hearsay, by a collection of texts, by logic, by inferential reasoning, by reasoned cogitation, by the acceptance of a view after pondering it, by the seeming competence of a speaker, or because you think, ‘The ascetic is our teacher.’4 But when you know for yourselves, ‘These things are unwholesome; these things are blamable; these things are censured by the wise; these things, if undertaken and practiced, lead to harm and suffering,’ then you should abandon them.”

I have examined my own life, my own experiences, and come to the conclusion that "Drugs are bad, m'kay?"

... On a more serious note, I believe that your mind is the greatest tool that you have. The goal of Buddhism is to develop and train the mind so as to break free from the fetters that bind you to conditioned existence. Recreational use of mind-altering drugs is the opposite of this intended goal. Any enlightening experience that may result from such use is inherently tied to and dependent on the substances. One could make the argument that this experience could be used in one's practice, but why even risk the possible addiction/dependence and obvious attachment when your mind is a perfectly capable vehicle of getting you to the exact same destination? Buddhism teaches progressive wisdom through processes involving mental independence and discipline. Use of mind altering substances is neither of these.

 

[apophenia]

Tibetan lamas must have all been faking it then.

They drink plenty of alcohol. And there are various references to the enlightening effects of some drugs in the literature. Including references to the traditional preparation of a medicine to 'cure avidya' carried out by all the Dalai Lamas.

Is a cup of tea a drug ? You bet. How many of the buddhists have a problem with tea and coffee ? If caffeine is OK, then presumably we have agreed that it is a drug which does not cause intoxication.

Is there a problem with bananas or milk ? What about the tryptophan they contain (and the tyrosine) ? Is that OK because even though trytophan is psychoactive it is not 'intoxicating' ? If so, then we have another example of a mind-altering drug which is not intoxicating. More particularly - where the appropriate dose does not produce problematic effects.

I noticed when I went to a vipassana retreat that there was tea and coffee provided, and the vipassana organisation is very traditional and fussy about vinaya during retreats.

I might prefer drinking tea made with ephedra. Or kat. Why is caffeine OK but ephedrine or cathinone not so ?

I go with the spirit of the advice. Don't make a habit of getting messy and wasted. Some drugs, like caffeine, ephedrine and others, most certainly maintain alertness without causing the kind of intoxication which I think is being warned against. The writers of the Rig Veda clearly didn't have a problem with soma.

Strawdog mentioned 'smart drugs'. I use them often. Anxiolytic, and attention and memory enhancing. Nothing to feel ashamed about the next day. No 'crazy notions'.

So really, use your own good judgement people - that's what it's for. If you only trust someone else's interpretation of a scripture, you are probably 'intoxicated' with naive belief.

 

[Me Myself]

On my personal opinion, buddhism doesnt prohibit or suggest anything.

Buddhism is a method. You can decide whether it is a good method or a bad method, but thats what it is.

Light doesnt prohibit you from stumbling, just sends the darkness away so you can better see where you are going, provided you choose to.

 

[Twilight Hue]

On my personal opinion, buddhism doesnt prohibit or suggest anything.

Buddhism is a method. You can decide whether it is a good method or a bad method, but thats what it is.

Light doesnt prohibit you from stumbling, just sends the darkness away so you can better see where you are going, provided you choose to.

The focus is the middle way. Avoiding extremes. Prohibitions generally point out such things. To me there are common sense guidelines, yet if one chooses another direction like drug use so be it.

I drink coffee and tea. :0)

 

[Murkve]

Tibetan lamas must have all been faking it then.

They drink plenty of alcohol. And there are various references to the enlightening effects of some drugs in the literature. Including references to the traditional preparation of a medicine to 'cure avidya' carried out by all the Dalai Lamas.

Is a cup of tea a drug ? You bet. How many of the buddhists have a problem with tea and coffee ? If caffeine is OK, then presumably we have agreed that it is a drug which does not cause intoxication.

Is there a problem with bananas or milk ? What about the tryptophan they contain (and the tyrosine) ? Is that OK because even though trytophan is psychoactive it is not 'intoxicating' ? If so, then we have another example of a mind-altering drug which is not intoxicating. More particularly - where the appropriate dose does not produce problematic effects.

I noticed when I went to a vipassana retreat that there was tea and coffee provided, and the vipassana organisation is very traditional and fussy about vinaya during retreats.

I might prefer drinking tea made with ephedra. Or kat. Why is caffeine OK but ephedrine or cathinone not so ?

I go with the spirit of the advice. Don't make a habit of getting messy and wasted. Some drugs, like caffeine, ephedrine and others, most certainly maintain alertness without causing the kind of intoxication which I think is being warned against. The writers of the Rig Veda clearly didn't have a problem with soma.

Strawdog mentioned 'smart drugs'. I use them often. Anxiolytic, and attention and memory enhancing. Nothing to feel ashamed about the next day. No 'crazy notions'.

So really, use your own good judgement people - that's what it's for. If you only trust someone else's interpretation of a scripture, you are probably 'intoxicated' with naive belief.

I agree with your general sentiment here. Good judgement is paramount.

However, I think you would agree that there is a difference between LSD and Caffeine? What I was trying to get across in my post was that, IMO, taking intoxicants for the sole purpose of their effects is unwholesome. I drink caffeinated beverages in moderation because they are refreshing and taste good, but I would not take caffeine in its pure form. The dosages of caffeine found commonly in beverages are too low for me to notice a significant effect on my mind and mood. That is to say, when I drink a Diet Coke my energy levels, mood, and thoughts are still within the normal range of which I would expect them during the day.

I do not feel the same about alcoholic beverages, and am not comfortable with the noticeable effect they have on my mind. My opinion on this transfers to direct dosages of drugs as well, such as caffeine pills, as they are in the amounts specifically designed to induce mind-alteration.

My opinion is this: I am not comfortable with a dosage of any chemical sufficiently high enough to alter my mind, deceive my mind, or otherwise remove my mind from my control.

I am well aware that there may be other Buddhist sects with differing opinions and practices from my own. However, so far in my studies, most Theravadins have proven to hold my same stance on this issue.

 

[LuisDantas]

presumably this ^ applies to modern buddhism, but what about ancient buddhism, from the time of the buddha?

Why would it be any different?

This applies to alcohol, but what about drugs that increase the clarity of perception?

Far as I can tell, that is a full fiction, and a very destructive one at that.

Buddhism is all about developing a trained, stable, self-reliant mind - "being one's own torch" as it is sometimes described.

Using drugs is anathema to those goals. Psychoactives sever the relationship between one's mental state and one's actual experiences, hurting mental health and discipline.

 

[Me Myself]

The focus is the middle way. Avoiding extremes. Prohibitions generally point out such things. To me there are common sense guidelines, yet if one chooses another direction like drug use so be it.

I drink coffee and tea. :0)

i agree. I just felt like remembering that, whether it is the posture of whether it is benefical or not to use drugs, buddhism will only try to show what is benefical in its light, but does not force anyone to any action or inaction. It merely shows what leads to the cease of suffering, so those who try to achieve that "goal" can be better guided, as ou well put.

 

[LuisDantas]

So I have to ask...

What about drugs like Prozac, Aderall, Ritalin, Oxycotin.... et al... ?
Even when used correctly (not-carelessly) they intoxicate the mind with their effect.

Much of basic Buddhist practice is indeed based on avoiding those, precisely because they are intoxicating and therefore destructive from a mental health perspective.

What other things in this world intoxicate the mind, carelessly or otherwise?

What exactly is intoxication and carelessness?

My personal definition is the furthering apart of actions and the perception of their consequences.

 

[LuisDantas]

You've never seen the film Limitless? Smart pills are out there, man, that can make you use all of your brain instead of just the normal 20%.

I know you are kidding, but this thread is as good a place as any to remind us all that those percentages of "normal brain use" are quite the myth.

Association for Psychological Science: Public Information

snopes.com: Ten Percent of our Brains

Seriously though, intoxicate-use will always conflict with Buddhist doctrine, not only due to possible carelessness it may cause, but also because of the risk of either physical addiction or psychological attachment. Besides, if someone is stoned when they think they've reach enlightenment then how can they really know it actually happened?

Precisely.