Does Christmas have anything to do with Christ?

[Ingledsva]

I don't "want it to mean" anything. Again, if. you. would. provide. some. context. instead. of. quote. mining. we. could. be. more. productive.

How exactly is repeating what the Bible says JESUS said, about our subject, - quote mining?

You folks are pushing stuff HE DID NOT SAY! And things the Bible does not say - such as trinity, Jesus being God, etc. Traditions of MAN!

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[sojourner]

Again - not so.

First use - 1038 in a book from Saxon England - "Cristes Maesse" - meaning a mass, - not a holiday.

In Medieval England revelry on "Cristes Maesse" was still banned.

In fact Christmas got banned over and over throughout it's history, - because the revelry parts were know to be Pagan.


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Uh huh. And "holiday" is derived from "holy day," on which a mass, or Feast is celebrated. A Feast is historically a solemn occasion. In fact, in historic churches, the Christ Mass is solemn.

 

[sojourner]

LOL! BULL! That is why I include the verses, as needed.

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Many times, it takes more than isolated verses -- or even the surrounding few -- to place things in context.

 

[sojourner]

How exactly is repeating what the Bible says JESUS said, about our subject, - quote mining?

You folks are pushing stuff HE DID NOT SAY! And things the Bible does not say - such as trinity, Jesus being God, etc. Traditions of MAN!

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Because you're lifting isolated snippets out of whole texts simply in order to "prove" your point. What did "Jesus say?" In fact, we don't know. All we have is what the church says he said. Plus, it's simply never been all about "what Jesus said." It's always been a communal effort, with the church fathers being given authority, as well as Jesus. IOW, it's about what the church says. And the church says, not only what's included in the NT, but a lot of non-canonical stuff, as well. You really need to get over the whole sola scriptura nonsense.

 

[ChristineES]

Christmas appears to be a conglomeration of many different religious and cultural entities. Even Jesus "birth" was added to the list, although virtually everyone now knows that Jesus was not born in December (some say He was born in Spring and other say He was born in October).

That really isn't the answer, though. Right now, people still celebrate in different ways. Some add Luke Chapter 2 while others omit it. I enjoy it: I like decorating, I like singing of Carols, I like buying things for my kids. I even celebrated it when I had no religion and even sang the same songs. It can be fun, it can be a case of screaming commercialism (if we let it), it can be a pain in the "you-know-where".

That's all, Folks!

 

[Nada]

Jesus is not only called God in the Bible, the father calls Him that. Then goes on to call Jeshua the Creator of the heavens and earth. This is aside from the fact that elsewhere in the Bible Jeshua is said to have all the power in heaven and earth. If Christians don't worship Jesus as God, they don't have a god who has any power.

You are still incorrect.Everything was created through Jesus.It was done by God's power.God is the one who created everything but through Jesus Christ.Just like when a Father is teaching his son how to hit a baseball with the bat.The Father swings the bat with his power but it is the son who hit the ball.

Colossians 1:16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

Just because God the Almighty calls Jesus a God does not mean that Jesus is God the Almighty.You said it yourself that the Father goes on to call Jesus God.Why would God the Almighty refer to himself in a third person if they are both the same being?

Jesus and men were both called god's or God's.Jesus was referred to as Mighty God.But never the Almighty God.

There is much you still do not understand.That is why you jump from one religion to another brother.

Jesus was given the power by His Father God the Almighty to carry out his task.When Jesus is finished it says that the Kingdom will be handed back to God and Jesus will be in subjection to God.

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.


It is very obvious that God the Almighty and Jesus are two separate beings.Jesus is the Son of the most High.

1 Corinthians 15:27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him.28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

So you see..... it is God who gives Jesus the authority and power.Jesus' rule is limited.The Kingdom is to be handed back to God when Jesus is done.

 

[Gnostic Seeker]

At least some of modern Christmas observances have their origins in Saturnalia, which in turn has root in the Greek festival of Kronia. Gift-giving is one custom I'm aware of practiced by the Romans, and feasting was customary for the Kronia among Greeks.

 

[Ingledsva]

Jesus is not only called God in the Bible, the father calls Him that. Then goes on to call Jeshua the Creator of the heavens and earth. This is aside from the fact that elsewhere in the Bible Jeshua is said to have all the power in heaven and earth. If Christians don't worship Jesus as God, they don't have a god who has any power.

NOT SO! Provide the verses! You have been throwing around that, - in context!

Also Jesus specifically says his power is FROM GOD! NOT his!

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me? the sayings that I speak to you, from myself I speak not, and but the Father who is abiding in me, Himself doth the works;

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John 5:30 I can do nothing by myself; but as I hear I judge, and my judgment is just; for I do not seek my own will, but the will of him who sent me.

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Matthew 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

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Mark 10:18 And he Jesus said to him: why me call good? None/Not even one is good; not one but the Deity.

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JESUS SAID - Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered prudently (exercised sound judgment), he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

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Mat 4:8 Again, the devil took him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

Mat 4:9 And said unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Mat 4:10 Then said Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
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1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.


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[Desert Snake]

You are still incorrect.Everything was created through Jesus.It was done by God's power.God is the one who created everything but through Jesus Christ.Just like when a Father is teaching his son how to hit a baseball with the bat.The Father swings the bat with his power but it is the son who hit the ball.

Colossians 1:16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

Just because God the Almighty calls Jesus a God does not mean that Jesus is God the Almighty.You said it yourself that the Father goes on to call Jesus God.Why would God the Almighty refer to himself in a third person if they are both the same being?

Jesus and men were both called god's or God's.Jesus was referred to as Mighty God.But never the Almighty God.

There is much you still do not understand.That is why you jump from one religion to another brother.

Jesus was given the power by His Father God the Almighty to carry out his task.When Jesus is finished it says that the Kingdom will be handed back to God and Jesus will be in subjection to God.

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.


It is very obvious that God the Almighty and Jesus are two separate beings.Jesus is the Son of the most High.

1 Corinthians 15:27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him.28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

So you see..... it is God who gives Jesus the authority and power.Jesus' rule is limited.The Kingdom is to be handed back to God when Jesus is done.

Lol!... Anyways, we're off topic.

 

[Nada]

Lol!... Anyways, we're off topic.

Hee hee!

 

[Desert Snake]

NOT SO! Provide the verses! You have been throwing around that, - in context!

Also Jesus specifically says his power is FROM GOD! NOT his!

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me? the sayings that I speak to you, from myself I speak not, and but the Father who is abiding in me, Himself doth the works;

*
John 5:30 I can do nothing by myself; but as I hear I judge, and my judgment is just; for I do not seek my own will, but the will of him who sent me.

*
Matthew 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

*
Mark 10:18 And he Jesus said to him: why me call good? None/Not even one is good; not one but the Deity.

*
JESUS SAID - Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered prudently (exercised sound judgment), he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

*
Mat 4:8 Again, the devil took him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

Mat 4:9 And said unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Mat 4:10 Then said Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
*
1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.


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Whuppty do, Corinthians. Tradition has it that Xians worship Jesus as God...you know, considering that the Spirit is supposed to be God manifesting Himself, we at first wouldn't have some 'other' god. Then, further, you have taken the 'calling everyone god' thing to where it doesn't make sense or apply. No, for instance, God would not call a human the creator of the heavens and earth, this makes no sense. Also, you're mixing apples and oranges linguistically. 'Elohim' is not used for Jesus, 'G-d' is, same name or rather title of the father.

 

[Ingledsva]

Uh huh. And "holiday" is derived from "holy day," on which a mass, or Feast is celebrated. A Feast is historically a solemn occasion. In fact, in historic churches, the Christ Mass is solemn.

LOL! Don't try to push the meaning. This was a go to church day - NOT a holiday.

 

[Nada]

Whuppty do, Corinthians. Tradition has it that Xians worship Jesus as God...you know, considering that the Spirit is supposed to be God manifesting Himself, we at first woulsn't have some 'other' god. Then, further, you have taken the 'calling everyone god' thing to where it doesn't make sense or apply. No, for instance, God would not call a human the creator of the heavens and earth, this makes no sense. Also, you're mixing apples and oranges linguistically. 'Elohim' is not used for Jesus, 'G-d' is, same name or rather title of the father.

You are still incorrect.True Christians do not call Jesus God because he is not.Jesus was placed in Mary's womb by way of holy spirit.God used His power to carry this out.Jesus was made human.A perfect one.

 

[Ingledsva]

Because you're lifting isolated snippets out of whole texts simply in order to "prove" your point. What did "Jesus say?" In fact, we don't know. All we have is what the church says he said. Plus, it's simply never been all about "what Jesus said." It's always been a communal effort, with the church fathers being given authority, as well as Jesus. IOW, it's about what the church says. And the church says, not only what's included in the NT, but a lot of non-canonical stuff, as well. You really need to get over the whole sola scriptura nonsense.

BULL! If it isn't in the text - it is MADE UP TRADITION of man!

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[Ingledsva]

Lol!... Anyways, we're off topic.

Hardly! He is discussing what we are. Jesus is NOT God, or part of a trinity.

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[Ingledsva]

Whuppty do, Corinthians. Tradition has it that Xians worship Jesus as God...you know, considering that the Spirit is supposed to be God manifesting Himself, we at first wouldn't have some 'other' god. Then, further, you have taken the 'calling everyone god' thing to where it doesn't make sense or apply. No, for instance, God would not call a human the creator of the heavens and earth, this makes no sense. Also, you're mixing apples and oranges linguistically. 'Elohim' is not used for Jesus, 'G-d' is, same name or rather title of the father.

LOL! I suggest you re-read that.

You know perfectly well in John 10, Jesus is referencing Psalm 82:6.

Jesus is not claiming to be GOD, He is referencing Psalms - he has challanged the Priest Judges, saying he is Judge, or Magistrate. The Messiah was to bring the end and FINAL JUDGMENT!

When they claim he blasphemes, he quotes from Psalm 82 - Which is a whole section on bad judges, where in Psalm 82:6 they are told "I said, 'You are (Elohiym), And all of you are the sons of the Most High."

Elohiym as has been mentioned many times - does not just mean gods - and in this case it is saying they shall be righteous Judges over the Israelites.

Jesus is saying (as per the OT quote) He is a/or THE Judge/Magistrate.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them: Is it not written in your law: I said, you are theos?

Both Elohiym in the Hebrew and theos in the greek have the meaning Judge/Magistrate, as well as god.

This is obviously the meaning as the OT people aren't GODS. And note "they" like Jesus, are "sons of the most high."

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[Nakosis]

So, millions of Christians celebrating the birth of Jesus during a holiday they'e always called "Christmas" has nothing to do with Jesus?

Do you think Jesus was really born of the 25th of Dec?

No... So what exactly are they celebrating? What does Christmas have to do with Jesus?

Pick some pagan holiday and say it's for Jesus, ok. Not that I want to pick on Christians but the falsity of it is astounding.

The real question, does Christmas have anything to do with Christ? Anything? Something? The answer, no not really. But, just say it does and go about your religion.

 

[Nada]

It does not!

 

[Ingledsva]

It does not!

I know! I get a kick out of that one too.

They claim since it now has his title, and they celebrate him on that day, then it is about him.

However, it would be like me having a holy one called Ned.

Then deciding to convert Muslims to my Ned.

So I rip-off Muslim Ramadan - and call it NedRamadanMass, -

and then worship Ned during that time, -

and later claim, OF COURSE it has to do with NED - look at the name!

Look at who we worship -NED!

Of course it is a Ned holiday! Of course we worship Ned on NedRamadanMass!

Just ignore all those Muslim Ramadan wrappings! LOL!


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[McBell]

I'm not the one who is very confused.

Your posts indicate otherwise