Does Christmas have anything to do with Christ?

[Ingledsva]

No. People were supposed to go to church (hence "mass"). They were also supposed to celebrate at home. The Feast of Christmas lasts 12 days, beginning with Christmas Day and ending on Epiphany. The holy day (holiday) is Xmas Day. The Feast, or season, of Xmas lasts 12 days. Xmas was always a celebration.

The point you're making is that Xmas comes from several pagan celebrations, among them Saturnalia and Yule. Some of the celebrations and symbols have been given Xtian meaning, some remain merely cultural "ghosts." Although the church sometime uses a tree, it is not a particularly Xtian symbol (it is given Xtian meaning, however). But, overall, for Xtians, the season is about Christ.

No the season isn't mainly about Christ.

And - LOL! - those 12 days are pagan parts!

The false Christ birthday (church day) was added to pagan celebrations.

*

 

[sojourner]

No the season isn't mainly about Christ.

And - LOL! - those 12 days are pagan parts!

The false Christ birthday (church day) was added to pagan celebrations.

*

So? It was added more than a thousand years ago. For Christians, the season is mainly about Christ. Doesn't matter what the "origins" are.

 

[Ingledsva]

So? It was added more than a thousand years ago. For Christians, the season is mainly about Christ. Doesn't matter what the "origins" are.

LOL! You have a FALSE date for Jesus' birth, - tacked onto pagan celebrations!

So - Jesus actually has no connection whatsoever - to these Winter Solstice Celebrations.

It doesn't mater how long I practice NedRamadanMas, it is still Ramadan and is an Islamic Celebration. I can't claim it is about Ned! To bad for my tacked on NED!

You folks celebrate on that date, but nothing having to do with it is actually related to Jesus.

*

 

[Riverwolf]

LOL! You have a FALSE date for Jesus' birth, - tacked onto pagan celebrations!

So - Jesus actually has no connection whatsoever - to these Winter Solstice Celebrations.

It doesn't mater how long I practice NedRamadanMas, it is still Ramadan and is an Islamic Celebration. I can't claim it is about Ned! To bad for my tacked on NED!

You folks celebrate on that date, but nothing having to do with it is actually related to Jesus.

*

It's not that simple.

What a holiday or celebrations mean is dependent, not on the "original", but on the ones celebrating. Christmas is derived from Yule, yes; but it is not Yule. Yule and Christmas are two separate celebrations.

Last Friday, I celebrated Halloween. This Friday, I'll be celebrating Samhain. They're not the same holiday, even though the former derived from the latter (among other things).

Later this year, I'll be celebrating Yule, and Christmas with my family, separately. As my family is not Christian, Christmas has nothing to do with Christ for us. But it also has nothing to do with Yule. For Christians, however, Christ is the central figure for Christmas.

Whether Jesus had a connection to the celebrations in the past or not, he does now. Christians put him there.

 

[sojourner]

LOL! You have a FALSE date for Jesus' birth, - tacked onto pagan celebrations!

So - Jesus actually has no connection whatsoever - to these Winter Solstice Celebrations.

It doesn't mater how long I practice NedRamadanMas, it is still Ramadan and is an Islamic Celebration. I can't claim it is about Ned! To bad for my tacked on NED!

You folks celebrate on that date, but nothing having to do with it is actually related to Jesus.

*

When did I ever say I had a date for Jesus' birth?
"You folks?" Who's "you?"

And, yes, if Ramadan has a meaning of Ned for you, then it has a meaning of Ned for you. Deal with it.

 

[Desert Snake]

LOL! You have a FALSE date for Jesus' birth, - tacked onto pagan celebrations!

So - Jesus actually has no connection whatsoever - to these Winter Solstice Celebrations.

It doesn't mater how long I practice NedRamadanMas, it is still Ramadan and is an Islamic Celebration. I can't claim it is about Ned! To bad for my tacked on NED!

You folks celebrate on that date, but nothing having to do with it is actually related to Jesus.

*

Yes it does. Why do you keep telling people what their religion is.

 

[Ingledsva]

It's not that simple.

What a holiday or celebrations mean is dependent, not on the "original", but on the ones celebrating. Christmas is derived from Yule, yes; but it is not Yule. Yule and Christmas are two separate celebrations.

Last Friday, I celebrated Halloween. This Friday, I'll be celebrating Samhain. They're not the same holiday, even though the former derived from the latter (among other things).

Later this year, I'll be celebrating Yule, and Christmas with my family, separately. As my family is not Christian, Christmas has nothing to do with Christ for us. But it also has nothing to do with Yule. For Christians, however, Christ is the central figure for Christmas.

Whether Jesus had a connection to the celebrations in the past or not, he does now. Christians put him there.

I think Christians should read their Bibles, do some research, and put Jesus' birthday closer to a month that the texts point to, -

Rather then give fuel to Pagans and Mystic groups, etc., by associating him with the Solstice Birth of the Sun Celebrations, and Spring Equinox bunny sex, and Sacrifice of the Sacred King Celebrations.

*

 

[Desert Snake]

LOL! You have a FALSE date for Jesus' birth, - tacked onto pagan celebrations!



*

It isn't tacked on, it's an amalgamation. We know these symbols are 'pagan' lol.

 

[Ingledsva]

When did I ever say I had a date for Jesus' birth?
"You folks?" Who's "you?"

And, yes, if Ramadan has a meaning of Ned for you, then it has a meaning of Ned for you. Deal with it.

Not!

Nor would modern Islam, or the world, allow you to usurp their ancient celebration, claiming it is about your God.


*

 

[Ingledsva]

Again: Doesn't matter what the bible does or does not say. The bible is not the be-all-end-all of Christian reality. It is part of a larger whole.

LOL! Traditions of men! And I've already posted what the Bible says about that.

*

 

[sojourner]

I think Christians should read their Bibles, do some research, and put Jesus' birthday closer to a month that the texts point to, -

Rather then give fuel to Pagans and Mystic groups, etc., by associating him with the Solstice Birth of the Sun Celebrations, and Spring Equinox bunny sex, and Sacrifice of the Sacred King Celebrations.

*

I think you shouldn't obsess so much on what Christians choose to believe and celebrate.
As it happens, I've read and researched the bible, and have been invited to publish biblical research. Whadda you have on the subject?

 

[Desert Snake]

Even if 'christian' history itself reveals it isn't?

Even early church fathers (like Origen) originally disapprove such 'celebration'.

Who's that? Is there some reason his opinion should mean anything to me?

 

[sojourner]

Not!

A fine example of the World's Most Impotent Argument.

Nor would modern Islam, or the world, allow you to usurp their ancient celebration, claiming it is about your God.

I don't notice the Pagans or the Heathens calling "foul" here. Nor have I heard any Christians calling "foul" at American culture turning their religious holiday into a shameless avarice-fest. The only one who seems to be complaining is... you. Why is that?

 

[Riverwolf]

I think Christians should read their Bibles, do some research, and put Jesus' birthday closer to a month that the texts point to, -

Rather then give fuel to Pagans and Mystic groups, etc., by associating him with the Solstice Birth of the Sun Celebrations, and Spring Equinox bunny sex, and Sacrifice of the Sacred King Celebrations.

*

What fuel are you talking about? And why does it matter? I don't always get to celebrate my birthday on my birthdate, and I explained the cultural significance earlier.

 

[sojourner]

LOL! Traditions of men! And I've already posted what the Bible says about that.

*

You just loooove taking things out of context. Why? 'Cause it's all you got. You simply don't get it: the bible is part of "mans tradition."

 

[sojourner]

Who's that? Is there some reason his opinion should mean anything to me?

Well... yeah, there is. Origen was one of the most respected Fathers of the Faith. His theology is a building block for what Christians believe. Let this point go.

 

[Desert Snake]

Well... yeah, there is. Origen was one of the most respected Fathers of the Faith. His theology is a building block for what Christians believe. Let this point go.

But this is not an valid argument for me not to celebrate Xmas. That is my point. If Origen didn't like Xmas, good for him, but it doesn't relate to my observances or thoughts on the matter.

 

[Ingledsva]

A fine example of the World's Most Impotent Argument.

I don't notice the Pagans or the Heathens calling "foul" here. Nor have I heard any Christians calling "foul" at American culture turning their religious holiday into a shameless avarice-fest. The only one who seems to be complaining is... you. Why is that?

LOL! You are hearing it in this thread. And I have heard it for many years.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

Well... yeah, there is. Origen was one of the most respected Fathers of the Faith. His theology is a building block for what Christians believe. Let this point go.

 

[sojourner]

But this is not an valid argument for me not to celebrate Xmas. That is my point. If Origen didn't like Xmas, good for him, but it doesn't relate to my observances or thoughts on the matter.

Of course not. But the poster's point about the origins of Xmas are valid. Xtians appropriated pagan and Heathen festivals, and put a Christian theological spin on them.