Does God Care What We Believe?

[leibowde84]

Experience?

What experience specifically?

Such is the arrogance of man. Prove first what a good person is.

I would say an unselfish person who tries to do things for others, doesn't have an inflated sense of self importance, isn't narcissistic, is responsible, has empathy, etc.

I agree. Now tell me, how many good deeds relieve one's judgement in the face of crime?

In the face of what crime specifically? That is very important to specify.

 

[leibowde84]

Okay. That wasn't the question.

My direct experience with God is a logical reason for me to believe He does so care.

That's so vague, though. Can you explain what you mean?

 

[leibowde84]

If he is Father, and we can create hell or heaven on earth while we are here, and if he is at least as caring as we are then yes.

Obviously people can lead good lives and be great people regardless of whether they believe in God. So, why do you think belief in God is important?

 

[leibowde84]

and the angelic will ask....
What do you believe?

followed by....
Who told you that?!!!!
and why did you believe it?

Why is it important though?

 

[leibowde84]

Interesting question... perhaps because what one believes determines his direction and outcome? Do not all parents try to instill good beliefs into their children that they can make good decisions?

I didn't answer the two options on the survey as the options are two restrictive. IMO

What about belief in God. Obviously belief in God is not necessary to be a good person and make good decisions. So, why would it matter?

 

[leibowde84]

Without question? Of course, everyone, even the most earnest of believers [if they are also honest] will have and admit to having questions. What is needed that too many believing Christians do not have is the ability to hear what God is saying to their hearts.

Unbelievers hear little from God and often if not usually reject and/or misunderstand what they do hear. For them [the unbelievers] while they have time and opportunity that may be OK until time runs out for them.

For believers, if they really are believers, they must recognize the Voice of God. This is their Way to Him. Abraham and Isaac and Jacob had no written scripture, but they according the scriptures [which you don't want us to use here] they did hear from God. They heard His voice, whatever that meant to them. God will be understood by anyone who approaches Him properly.

So does He care? Why would He bother to speak as He does if He did not?

I hear His voice, but at times I quench the Spirit, His Spirit, and I get into trouble with Him. Does He care? If He did not I would not received additional chances.

Give God the glory!

I get that this is just your opinion, but it is pretty insulting to "unbelievers". It's saying that believers are better than unbelievers or more able at least. That seems to be very untrue.

 

[Kenny]

What about belief in God. Obviously belief in God is not necessary to be a good person and make good decisions. So, why would it matter?

Actually, I would say that is a two-prong question.

1) On the earth side, a "good person" requires either a comparison between people to determine who is good or a changing morality standard by which one may judge who is "good".

Problems with between two people it is arbitrary. Even among people who are in prison can say "Joey, over there, is a good person". And yet he is in prison because the laws said he wasn't.

The issue with changing morality is that yesterday's evil person is today's good person.

2) I think Jesus addressed this one when he said "There is no one good except God" placing God as the standard of goodness. This statement then creates the standard starting with the 10 commandments.

 

[Kenny]

If God's children don't believe he exists, that's on God. .

I think that is a little simplistic. " If Fred doesn't believe smoking will cause him cancer, that's on the cigarette company" would be a similar statement. IMO

 

[leibowde84]

Actually, I would say that is a two-prong question.

1) On the earth side, a "good person" requires either a comparison between people to determine who is good or a changing morality standard by which one may judge who is "good".

Problems with between two people it is arbitrary. Even among people who are in prison can say "Joey, over there, is a good person". And yet he is in prison because the laws said he wasn't.

The issue with changing morality is that yesterday's evil person is today's good person.

2) I think Jesus addressed this one when he said "There is no one good except God" placing God as the standard of goodness. This statement then creates the standard starting with the 10 commandments.

I would say that it depends on the following:
Charitableness
Striving for peace away from violence
Empathy; Acting on empathy
non-judgmental
Responsible

It is easy for me to think of people I know personally that fit the description. Some believe in God some don't. So, it seems easy to see that belief in God is not necessary to be good.

 

[leibowde84]

I think that is a little simplistic. " If Fred doesn't believe smoking will cause him cancer, that's on the cigarette company" would be a similar statement. IMO

That is a completely unreasonable analogy. There is verifiable, demonstrable evidence that shows that smoking causes cancer. There is no verifiable, demonstrable evidence for God.

 

[Mister Emu]

What experience specifically?

Any number of experiences people have had in contact with the divine. I have heard the literal voice of God and so believe as He told. Many people have had experiences that for them constitutes logical reason to believe in God as experienced.

I would say

It isn't about what you would say is a good person; you said it was "proven" that you could be a "good person". I'll argue that you can't even prove what a good person is, much less whether or not it is capable to be one.

In the face of what crime specifically? That is very important to specify.

Any crime. Is there any crime you can imagine wherein judgement is passed over for the sake of other unrelated good deeds?

Let's take an extreme hypothetical: A heart surgeon who donates his time and money to save hundreds of lives, funds a shelter for abused women, and adopts abandoned children to his maximum capacity while providing a loving and attentive environment. Lots of good.

What crimes should he not face judgement for?

 

[JustWondering]

Apart from scripture, what logical reason is there that God would have an interest in what we believe?

None, I think its more likely that an entity capable of creating universes would have an intellect so powerful it would view us as nothing more than bacteria. I find it amusing that so many people who believe in a god think that it has a special purpose for us and is interested in everything we do. Such beliefs just show how self-centered we are.

 

[omega2xx]

Well, 2 Kings 2:24 comes to mind.

Not to count all the orders to kill women and children. True, maybe He did not kill them personally, but I guess Hitler did not kill personally anybody, either.

The same with angels dispatched to kill first borns. And the indiscriminate massacre of the flood.

Yes, Scripture does indeed tells us a lot about the Guy you worship.

Ciao

- viole

There are several examples of God ordering the destruction of men, women, children and even cattle. Since animal have no soul, they don't count.

Biblically speaking this life is not what life is all about. Getting into the next life is the goal.

Since God is omniscient, He knows the final outcome and the final destination(heaven or hell) of all people. The only ones who benefited from God's commands was the children. If they reached the age of accountability, the chances are they would accept the paganism of heir parents and would have ended up in hell. Children who die before the age of accountability go to heaven when they die. If the first borns were under the age of accountability they ae now in heaven experiencing the perfect love of God. If that is true, was thier death a good thing or a bad thing?

No one standing before God at the final judgment will be able to shake their finger at God and say "You treated me unfairly."

 

[omega2xx]

But without the quickening of scripture in us, even the scripture tells us nothing for certain. Because our hearts were open, a glimmer was seen and we moved toward the Light. Then we used what we already had [from God] in order to be given more and then our burden to move closer increased.

Of course. Only the indwelling of God the Holy Spirit can lead us into the truth about God. IMO the Light moved toward us. God cause us to be born again(I Pet 1:3). I don't see moving closer to God as a burden. IMO, those who do have a legalistic theology, which is not Biblical

 

[Kenny]

I would say that it depends on the following:
Charitableness
Striving for peace away from violence
Empathy; Acting on empathy
non-judgmental
Responsible

It is easy for me to think of people I know personally that fit the description. Some believe in God some don't. So, it seems easy to see that belief in God is not necessary to be good.

Yes, you are right in the human sense... but again, notice the problem... you have a list... someone else's list may say "those are good traits but that is just average and does not qualify for 'good'"

they may say to be good you have to add..

does not cuss
is diligent at their work and doesn't take extra minutes on their break
faithful to their spouse

and the next person may say... "those are additional good traits but......"

You have given your standard for good but it may not be a good standard for the next person.

If there is a God, it may not be God's standard. Like when Jesus said "You say adultery is when you commit a sexual act with someone who is not your spouse (man's standard), but I say unto you that if you did it in your heart, you have already committed adultery (God's standard).

 

[Kenny]

That is a completely unreasonable analogy. There is verifiable, demonstrable evidence that shows that smoking causes cancer. There is no verifiable, demonstrable evidence for God.

I disagree...

I could say "My father smoked three packs a day for most of his life and never got cancer" (which would be a true statement).

No demonstrable evidence is a matter of perspective. Even as scientists may look at the same evidence and come to different conclusions.

 

[Sleeppy]

In both of these case the people were warned and could have avoided what happened. Therefore it was not an indulgence of God.



Punishment for sin is not an indulgence either.

Ezk 33:11 - Say to them, "As I live!" declares the Lord God, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked , but rather that the wicked turn from his ways and live...

I Tim 2:3-4 - This is good in the sight of God our Savior. who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

That's a pretty skewed sense of moral and logical efficiency..

You ignore the omnipotence of the Creator, even His omniscience-- in favor of man's allegedly spontaneous, or "free will", and despite his innate relationship to trial and error.

Why attempt to delegate God's own power, and glory to oneself? Jesus taught the opposite. Only with God have all things been possible. God is not wasteful or unsure about His desire. His word cannot return to Him with disappointment, according to Isaiah. So this idea that the creation holds more authority to avoid any given situation, than does the Creator, is blasphemy and autolatry.

 

[omega2xx]

That's a pretty skewed sense of moral and logical efficiency..

Your opinion is noted and rejected. It points to a lack of understanding the Bib le.

You ignore the omnipotence of the Creator, even His omniscience-- in favor of man's allegedly spontaneous, or "free will", and despite his innate relationship to trial and error.

Conservative Christians do not neglect the omnipotence or the omniscisence of God. We stand on them. I have no idea what you mean by "his innate relationship with trial and error.

Why attempt to delegate God's own power, and glory to oneself? Jesus taught the opposite.

What makeks you think we do?

Only with God have all things been possible. God is not wasteful or unsure about His desire. His word cannot return to Him with disappointment, according to Isaiah. So this idea that the creation holds more authority to avoid any given situation, than does the Creator, is blasphemy and autolatry.

I don't know where you are getting these ideas but the do not describe anything in conservative theology

 

[Thief]

Why is it important though?

the peace of heaven is guarded
and the angelic have been displayed with sword in hand for centuries

 

[viole]

There are several examples of God ordering the destruction of men, women, children and even cattle. Since animal have no soul, they don't count.

Biblically speaking this life is not what life is all about. Getting into the next life is the goal.

Since God is omniscient, He knows the final outcome and the final destination(heaven or hell) of all people. The only ones who benefited from God's commands was the children. If they reached the age of accountability, the chances are they would accept the paganism of heir parents and would have ended up in hell. Children who die before the age of accountability go to heaven when they die. If the first borns were under the age of accountability they ae now in heaven experiencing the perfect love of God. If that is true, was thier death a good thing or a bad thing?

No one standing before God at the final judgment will be able to shake their finger at God and say "You treated me unfairly."

So, I was right. He does indeed kill children.

What you say is weird. If I were a child in a family of pagans, then I should vastly be much better off, if I die young. Because otherwise I would go to infinite torment on account of the high probability of getting the religion of my parents.

But if I were born in a family of Christians (or Jews) , then chances are I will embrace the religion of my parents and increase the odds of playing harp for all eternity with Jesus.

Great. Well done God. Eternal justice and fairness is not much different than playing the lotto. Born in the wrong family? Sorry kid, you will gnash your teeth for all eternity if you listen to your parents, instead of the Christians you might not even know they exist.

Behold. Let's rejoice at the death of little kids. And embryos. The more, the better. For they will risk nothing, to win everything.

Are you serious? Is that really what you worhip, and the alleged source of your morality?

If you really believe that, then it is probably so.

Ciao

- viole