Does God Care What We Believe?

[Kenny]

That's a pretty skewed sense of moral and logical efficiency..

You ignore the omnipotence of the Creator, even His omniscience-- in favor of man's allegedly spontaneous, or "free will", and despite his innate relationship to trial and error.

Why attempt to delegate God's own power, and glory to oneself? Jesus taught the opposite. Only with God have all things been possible. God is not wasteful or unsure about His desire. His word cannot return to Him with disappointment, according to Isaiah. So this idea that the creation holds more authority to avoid any given situation, than does the Creator, is blasphemy and autolatry.

I would have to side with @omega2xx

Man's free will does not ignore the omnipotence of the Creator... His omnipotence is what gave us free will even to the point that Jesus was amazed that he could not do any miracles because of the free will of unbelief contrary to the desires of God.

 

[Kenny]

So, I was right. He does indeed kill children.


Ciao

- viole

It is so funny how we hear sheep bleating the same mantra...

Do you suggest that we not have dropped the atomic bombs on Japan and "kill children" and let the Japanese of that time continue to murder the millions of innocent people and continue the propagation of the rape of Nanking?

 

[Amadeus27]

I get that this is just your opinion, but it is pretty insulting to "unbelievers". It's saying that believers are better than unbelievers or more able at least. That seems to be very untrue.

Insulting? The Pharisees were apparently insulted by Jesus. Was he insulted in return?

When people disagree, one or both parties may take it as an insult even though no one really was intending to make a personal attack.

Are believers better? In the sense that better means good a believer who has some of God in him would be better according to according to God. Again you want an answer without scripture, but for me the answer is according to scripture. Jesus said there was "none good but one, that is God" [Matt 19:17]. To me that means that anyone who is counted good by God has at least a bit of God in him. That makes him somewhat good. Would he not then be "better" according to God than someone who had none of God in him?

One of the goals of a Christian is to be more like Him [meaning probably Jesus]. If we are on the approach as believers while unbeliever are not, a not unreasonable conclusion could be that the believers were better.

As to being "more able", if God is what I believe Him to be, He is fair. This means that He will judge us based on what He knows that we have in the way of tools to accomplish a given task. The only tasks that would matter positively to Him would be those that move a person closer to Him. Everyone starts our equal on that one if God never changes and God is fair and judges fairly.

Again as Jesus put it "much is given... much is required" [from Luke 12:48]

Our final judgment in the end of the matter will be based upon what we have done with what we have been given. More for example from a person with a brain comparable to Einstein than someone with below average intelligence. This is why no one but God is really qualified to render such a judgment fairly.

 

[viole]

It is so funny how we hear sheep bleating the same mantra...

Do you suggest that we not have dropped the atomic bombs on Japan and "kill children" and let the Japanese of that time continue to murder the millions of innocent people and continue the propagation of the rape of Nanking?

So, God is not better than us?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Amadeus27]

Of course. Only the indwelling of God the Holy Spirit can lead us into the truth about God. IMO the Light moved toward us. God cause us to be born again(I Pet 1:3). I don't see moving closer to God as a burden. IMO, those who do have a legalistic theology, which is not Biblical

I agree that a believer must be led by the Holy Spirit to receive [obtain] more of Truth. Perhaps instead saying "our burden to move closer" I should said "our incentive". Communication is always a problem for people, is it not? Each person in a conversation usually has a pretty good idea of what he wants to convey, but what is understood by the listener [reader] is likely to be different. This is so even they speak the same natural language [such as English].

I hope I don't appear too legalistic to you.

Perhaps the glimmer to which I referred was already there before we met the Master:

"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9

 

[Kenny]

So, God is not better than us?

Ciao

- viole

Are you saying that there is no need for wisdom?

 

[james bond]

That is a completely unreasonable analogy. There is verifiable, demonstrable evidence that shows that smoking causes cancer. There is no verifiable, demonstrable evidence for God.

Atheists are wrong again. Ken S was right. The cigarette companies were culpable. They had the evidence and hid it.

And studies show that the religious smoke less than atheists, so you're wrong about God, too.

BTW the only reason I point out that atheists are usually wrong is you don't want to learn this when it's too late to do anything about it.

 

[Sleeppy]

I would have to side with @omega2xx

Man's free will does not ignore the omnipotence of the Creator... His omnipotence is what gave us free will even to the point that Jesus was amazed that he could not do any miracles because of the free will of unbelief contrary to the desires of God.

Untrue and contradictory.


Free will and monotheism are antithetical, because of possible circumvention of any supposed Absolute Authority.

Jesus was not hindered by opposing "free wills". He constantly reiterated that any and all of his interactions with the world were of ordination. And not only his, but the world's; those in the Father's hand are immovable-- and it would be likewise antithetical to monotheism, to suggest that there exist others removed from the authority of the Father.

 

[omega2xx]

So, I was right. He does indeed kill children.
No, He has the killed for theier eventual good.

What you say is weird. If I were a child in a family of pagans, then I should vastly be much better off, if I die young. Because otherwise I would go to infinite torment on account of the high probability of getting the religion of my parents.

What is weird about getting to go to heave is you die before the age of accountability? This is very loving thing God does forf children.

But if I were born in a family of Christians (or Jews) , then chances are I will embrace the religion of my parents and increase the odds of playing harp for all eternity with Jesus.

Basically that's right.

Great. Well done God. Eternal justice and fairness is not much different than playing the lotto. Born in the wrong family? Sorry kid, you will gnash your teeth for all eternity if you listen to your parents, instead of the Christians you might not even know they exist.

Pagans can and do become Christians, the door is not shut.

Behold. Let's rejoice at the death of little kids. And embryos. The more, the better. For they will risk nothing, to win everything.

Are you serious? Is that really what you worhip, and the alleged source of your morality?

If you really believe that, then it is probably so.

Ciao

- viole

That is only a small part of why I worship God. You ask a question, I answered it according to my understanding of God. If you don' like it, that's fine with me. I am not here to try and convert you.

 

[Akivah]

I thought there wasn't actually a heaven in Judaism.

There is no hell. But there is a Heaven. Everyone gets to go there eventually.

 

[leibowde84]

Insulting? The Pharisees were apparently insulted by Jesus. Was he insulted in return?

When people disagree, one or both parties may take it as an insult even though no one really was intending to make a personal attack.

Are believers better? In the sense that better means good a believer who has some of God in him would be better according to according to God. Again you want an answer without scripture, but for me the answer is according to scripture. Jesus said there was "none good but one, that is God" [Matt 19:17]. To me that means that anyone who is counted good by God has at least a bit of God in him. That makes him somewhat good. Would he not then be "better" according to God than someone who had none of God in him?

One of the goals of a Christian is to be more like Him [meaning probably Jesus]. If we are on the approach as believers while unbeliever are not, a not unreasonable conclusion could be that the believers were better.

As to being "more able", if God is what I believe Him to be, He is fair. This means that He will judge us based on what He knows that we have in the way of tools to accomplish a given task. The only tasks that would matter positively to Him would be those that move a person closer to Him. Everyone starts our equal on that one if God never changes and God is fair and judges fairly.

Again as Jesus put it "much is given... much is required" [from Luke 12:48]

Our final judgment in the end of the matter will be based upon what we have done with what we have been given. More for example from a person with a brain comparable to Einstein than someone with below average intelligence. This is why no one but God is really qualified to render such a judgment fairly.

Disagreement is fine. But saying that you have more insight or those who disagree are merely obtuse is insulting. You open yourself up to a huge burden of proof when u imply either.

 

[leibowde84]

Insulting? The Pharisees were apparently insulted by Jesus. Was he insulted in return?

When people disagree, one or both parties may take it as an insult even though no one really was intending to make a personal attack.

Are believers better? In the sense that better means good a believer who has some of God in him would be better according to according to God. Again you want an answer without scripture, but for me the answer is according to scripture. Jesus said there was "none good but one, that is God" [Matt 19:17]. To me that means that anyone who is counted good by God has at least a bit of God in him. That makes him somewhat good. Would he not then be "better" according to God than someone who had none of God in him?

One of the goals of a Christian is to be more like Him [meaning probably Jesus]. If we are on the approach as believers while unbeliever are not, a not unreasonable conclusion could be that the believers were better.

As to being "more able", if God is what I believe Him to be, He is fair. This means that He will judge us based on what He knows that we have in the way of tools to accomplish a given task. The only tasks that would matter positively to Him would be those that move a person closer to Him. Everyone starts our equal on that one if God never changes and God is fair and judges fairly.

Again as Jesus put it "much is given... much is required" [from Luke 12:48]

Our final judgment in the end of the matter will be based upon what we have done with what we have been given. More for example from a person with a brain comparable to Einstein than someone with below average intelligence. This is why no one but God is really qualified to render such a judgment fairly.

So, what's your proof? Obviously scripture won't cut it as it is merely unverified claims by unknown authors.

 

[Kenny]

Untrue and contradictory.


Free will and monotheism are antithetical, because of possible circumvention of any supposed Absolute Authority.

Jesus was not hindered by opposing "free wills". He constantly reiterated that any and all of his interactions with the world were of ordination. And not only his, but the world's; those in the Father's hand are immovable-- and it would be likewise antithetical to monotheism, to suggest that there exist others removed from the authority of the Father.

Biblically I gave an example which proved that you are wrong and there are others. You will have to readdress your philosophical view.

 

[Sleeppy]

Biblically I gave an example which proved that you are wrong and there are others. You will have to readdress your philosophical view.

Your example was misplaced from its context, and misinterpreted.

Faith is not spontaneous, i.e. a function of free will. Faith is a consequence of God's will, for the Son of Man.

Reread. Reread. Reread.

 

[Kenny]

So, what's your proof? Obviously scripture won't cut it as it is merely unverified claims by unknown authors.

Any reason is a good reason if you are bent to a specific thought. Even if you have to make it up.

 

[Kenny]

Your example was misplaced from its context, and misinterpreted.

Faith is not spontaneous, i.e. a function of free will. Faith is a consequence of God's will, for the Son of Man.

Reread. Reread. Reread.

I am glad that your position is wrong.

Rom 10:17 - Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Your hearing is a function of your free will to place yourself into a position of hearing.

It is not spontaneous... it is a decision.

The Berea's "studied to see if it was so"... they studied, they believed, they accepted... a free will decision and very not spentaneous

and there are other examples!!!

 

[Sleeppy]

It is so funny how we hear sheep bleating the same mantra...

Do you suggest that we not have dropped the atomic bombs on Japan and "kill children" and let the Japanese of that time continue to murder the millions of innocent people and continue the propagation of the rape of Nanking?

Terrorism is self-perpetuating. This thinking is literally, an abomination of desolation.

 

[Kenny]

Terrorism is self-perpetuating. This thinking is literally, an abomination of desolation.

You are free to have a viewpoint.

But if terrorism is self-perpetuating (as we can see in Muslim countries) and the people of the time of Joshua were self-perpetuating the hatred towards Jews... what was the solution to prevent the hell-bent parents from teaching their children to continue the effort?

 

[Sleeppy]

I am glad that your position is wrong.

Rom 10:17 - Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Your hearing is a function of your free will to place yourself into a position of hearing.

It is not spontaneous... it is a decision.

The Berea's "studied to see if it was so"... they studied, they believed, they accepted... a free will decision and very not spentaneous

and there are other examples!!!

Decisions aren't spontaneous; correct. So what are they? Causal.

Where does the word of God originate? And according to Isaiah, God's word does not return unaccomplished.

What you're referring to is autolatry.

 

[Sleeppy]

You are free to have a viewpoint.

But if terrorism is self-perpetuating (as we can see in Muslim countries) and the people of the time of Joshua were self-perpetuating the hatred towards Jews... what was the solution to prevent the hell-bent parents from teaching their children to continue the effort?

Your solution is to learn more of God. The Son of Man, i.e. mankind, is not here to destroy himself, but to save.

You were told not to resist evil with evil, but to turn the other cheek, forgiving beyond your limit, and going the extra mile.

You house. You clothe. You feed. You teach. You purify. --And by God, the beasts of field are domesticated, responding to the voice of the Shepard, not of the wolf.