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Does God "CHOOSE" not to know the future?

dust1n

Zindīq
Please explain in what way you are being coerced by god simply knowing what you will do.

Well, this is the being that created me, and all that entails, and created every single thing that I've ever known or came into contact with, and all that entails, and knew before creating me what I would be and how all the things he made around me would affect me, and what would result. It's one thing to act without knowledge. But to act when someone else around has that knowledge, seriously puts into the jeopardy free will in exchange for something more along the lines of fate.
 

McBell

Unbound
Well, this is the being that created me, and all that entails, and created every single thing that I've ever known or came into contact with, and all that entails, and knew before creating me what I would be and how all the things he made around me would affect me, and what would result. It's one thing to act without knowledge. But to act when someone else around has that knowledge, seriously puts into the jeopardy free will in exchange for something more along the lines of fate.
You completely forgot the coercion part....
Care to try again?
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Hello all! It's been awhile since I've posted on here but, as some of you know I have a JW friend that I visit with every week. The past couple of weeks we've been discussing how God can choose not to know the future. He (my friend) says that it is his belief that God didn't know Adam was going to sin, nor did He know that satan was going to tempt them. My friend explained that, "if God knows what I'm going to do tomorrow at 6:00, then I don't have free will because God knows I'm going to do it." I tried to explain that God knows the choice he (my friend) is going to make, but he didn't understand that. What are your beliefs/understandings/opinions on this? I believe God knows everything and does not choose not to know.

As we have the free will then God rationally won't know what my decisions will be.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
So given that I have some complete control over my entire existence, all that free will entails, am I going to eat the one thing God knows I'm going to eat tonight, or am I going to eat any other possible thing tonight?

God knows what you will ultimately choose. He knows if you are thinking pizza, Chinese or BBQ and knows which one you will choose. He doesn't take those choices away from you, He knows which one you will choose.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
As we have the free will then God rationally won't know what my decisions will be.

It's absurd to think that God can create the world and everything in it and then turn His back on it as to say, "whatever happens happens, I don't want to know."
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
God knows what you will ultimately choose. He knows if you are thinking pizza, Chinese or BBQ and knows which one you will choose. He doesn't take those choices away from you, He knows which one you will choose.

That means he's programmed.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
It's absurd to think that God can create the world and everything in it and then turn His back on it as to say, "whatever happens happens, I don't want to know."

He knows what is happening every and each second, yes i agree, but that's different than
what our choices will be.
 

aoji

Member
Well, this is the being that created me, and all that entails, and created every single thing that I've ever known or came into contact with, and all that entails, and knew before creating me what I would be and how all the things he made around me would affect me, and what would result. It's one thing to act without knowledge. But to act when someone else around has that knowledge, seriously puts into the jeopardy free will in exchange for something more along the lines of fate.

You are the creator of your children. They will inherit your strengths and weaknesses, both physically and mentally. After they have grown up with you they will probably think like you, reason like you, act and re-act like you. If you see the world as an evil place then chances are that they will too. So, why did you create them? It would seem that all the joy you derived creating them and bringing them up was for naught if all they are going to do is eventually die. The thing is, that even without your consciousness, of which they carry a copy, Nature will keep on creating - it doesn't matter if it's a weed or a child - Nature must create living organisms, whether they be stars, planets, or atoms.

As a parent you wish for the best and know that eventually they will make their own mistakes, they will go from being babies, to being children, to being teenagers, to be adults, to being old. At first it's a delight and later on you accept them as equals. Later on, after they have tasted of the fruit of good and evil, of knowledge, you know that it's natural knowing that mom and dad had sex and made you, and you won't be mentally damaged to the point where you can't move and you become suicidal. Then one knows that they were fated to be born, just as they know that they are fated to die. The big picture of life is more important than the little day to day existence details.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
You completely forgot the coercion part....
Care to try again?

I fail to see any difference.

So what will I have for dinner. The single thing that God knows I'm going to have for dinner, or any other thing that I might choose? My choice is limited to what God knows I'll choose. If God knows I won't choose something, there is no way I can choose that option...
 

dust1n

Zindīq
God knows what you will ultimately choose. He knows if you are thinking pizza, Chinese or BBQ and knows which one you will choose. He doesn't take those choices away from you, He knows which one you will choose.

So is choosing a choice in which God knows I won't choose it an option?
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
So is choosing a choice in which God knows I won't choose it an option?

If I say I know you will make another comment on this thread, does that take your options away? Do you not have another choice?

If I set the keys to a 2016 car/truck and $100,000 on a table in front of you and told you to choose one, since God knows which one you will take you are saying you don't have a choice? Or, do you have a choice and God knows which one you will choose?
 

McBell

Unbound
So what will I have for dinner. The single thing that God knows I'm going to have for dinner, or any other thing that I might choose? My choice is limited to what God knows I'll choose. If God knows I won't choose something, there is no way I can choose that option...
Except gods knowing in no way influences your choice.
There is no coercion from god.
Therefore gods knowing does not effect your choice of what to have for dinner.
Thus his knowing does not interfere with your free will.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Except gods knowing in no way influences your choice.
There is no coercion from god.
Therefore gods knowing does not effect your choice of what to have for dinner.
Thus his knowing does not interfere with your free will.

But you didn't answer my question. Do I possess the will to act in such a way that runs contrary to God's knowledge?
 

dust1n

Zindīq
If I say I know you will make another comment on this thread, does that take your options away? Do you not have another choice?

No, because you don't actually possess that knowledge. God would know whether I would comment on the thread, and the exact detail of my response. If God knew this would be response in advance, how could my response be any different?

If I set the keys to a 2016 car/truck and $100,000 on a table in front of you and told you to choose one, since God knows which one you will take you are saying you don't have a choice? Or, do you have a choice and God knows which one you will choose?

I'm saying God knows what choice I will make before I make it. He will know the exact thought processes in my life. He also made the money, the truck, me, and everything in existence before me. The choice I make will be based on what is necessary in my life. If he knows I will choose one over the other, how could I possible choose the other? Although, I'd obviously take the 100k in cash since most new car/trucks don't have a value that high. But God knew all these way before I considered it.
 

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Hello all! It's been awhile since I've posted on here but, as some of you know I have a JW friend that I visit with every week. The past couple of weeks we've been discussing how God can choose not to know the future. He (my friend) says that it is his belief that God didn't know Adam was going to sin, nor did He know that satan was going to tempt them. My friend explained that, "if God knows what I'm going to do tomorrow at 6:00, then I don't have free will because God knows I'm going to do it." I tried to explain that God knows the choice he (my friend) is going to make, but he didn't understand that. What are your beliefs/understandings/opinions on this? I believe God knows everything and does not choose not to know.

I'd agree with you on this, fate and free will can co-exist when they apply in two separate perspectives of time.

When we watch a replay of a favorite old football game, knowing every play by heart does not change the fact that we are observing free will take it's own course..
 

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
No, because you don't actually possess that knowledge. God would know whether I would comment on the thread, and the exact detail of my response. If God knew this would be response in advance, how could my response be any different?


I'm saying God knows what choice I will make before I make it. He will know the exact thought processes in my life. He also made the money, the truck, me, and everything in existence before me. The choice I make will be based on what is necessary in my life. If he knows I will choose one over the other, how could I possible choose the other?

Easy: you are perfectly free to choose the other, and God would know if you made that choice also.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Easy: you are perfectly free to choose the other, and God would know if you made that choice also.

Knowing what choice a person has made is not the same as knowing in advance the person's choices.
We are all responsible for our own actions. Believing in fate does away with personal responsibility.
No need to be responsible so no need to repent.
No need to check the Owner's Manuel ( Bible ) because it doesn't apply in fate belief.
What does James 1:26 say ?
 
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