Does God create evil?

[JustWondering]

Many people want to know why God doesn't step in......

First, if 'imperfect' Adam and Eve would have never had children we simply would not be here.

God's purpose for the earth was for mankind to multiply and fill the earth.
Not overpopulate but 'fill' the earth.

Since Adam and Eve had all of their children after becoming humanly imperfect because of sin [disobedience], then all they could pass down to us is human imperfection.

This does not mean God has abandoned his purpose for the earth.
Rather it means we all have choices of heart and mind.
We can all decide if we would like to live under the Golden Rule or not.

If we could stop sinning we would not die.
Since we can not stop we die.
God made provision though Jesus that one's death could only be temporary and suffering would also be temporary.

Secondly, Satan challenged that touch our bone and flesh [health]
and we would not be faithful, keep integrity to God. -Job 2vs4,5.
Jesus and Job proved Satan a liar and so can we.

So what we see is temporary.
What is in store will be permanent.
Meaning God will have Jesus step in, so to speak,
and reverse this temporary badness.
-Rev 21vs3,4

We are in a time for spiritual happenings.
During Jesus coming 1000-year reign over earth,
will be the time for physical happenings.
-Rev 22v2

What purpose does a child starving to death or dying from cancer serve to your "loving" god?

 

[cottage]

God forces no one to listen and obey him.
Where does God say to break the Golden Rule ? Lev. 19 vs18,32,33
Where in Scripture does it say to break Jesus new commandment of Christ-like love ? -John 13vs34,35

The biblical God is inextricably associated with evil. But the plain fact of the matter is that evil and suffering exists because an Almighty God causes and allows it to exist.

 

[blackout]

If God created/creates (same difference) everything,
and evil exists,
then obviously yes,
God created/creates evil.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What purpose does a child starving to death or dying from cancer serve to your "loving" god?

According to Scripture who is the 'god' of this world of badness?
2nd Cor 4v4;1st John 5v19 makes Satan as this world's god or ruler.

Would you lend your enemy a helping hand to continue for him to do harm?

If God would help Satan patch up, so to speak, Satan's system, then God would be giving Satan a helping hand to perpetuate Satan's evil rulership.
Rev 12vs9,12

The mess the world is in shows beyond a doubt that under Satan mankind can not be successful.

So, by the time of Jesus millennial reign over earth all in heaven and all on earth will not be able to say things were successful without doing things God's Golden Rule way.

Remember: Jesus healing work was only a small sample of what he will do on a LARGE or GRAND scale during his thousand year reign.
-Rev 22v2

Jesus will reverse all the wrong perpetuated by Satan and his demons and those people that display Satan's mentality.
Rev [21vs4,5] says that God will make all things 'new'.
Even enemy death will be brought to nothing.-1st Cor 15v26
'Death' will be no more.

God knows the dead will be resurrected and cured.
Former troubles will be forgotten.
-Isaiah 65v17

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The biblical God is inextricably associated with evil. But the plain fact of the matter is that evil and suffering exists because an Almighty God causes and allows it to exist.

According to Job [2vs4,5] God does allow.

All of Satan's attacks have failed to make Satan's point that no one would follow God despite suffering.

Verse 5 Satan challenges that loss of health [touch bones and flesh] would turn people away from God. Both Job and Jesus proved Satan's challenge wrong and so can we.

God is not limited by time as we are right now.
Starting with Jesus thousand-year reign over earth: No more will suffering be allowed.

Satan bringing 'woe' [Rev 12vs9,12] to earth is only: temporary.
Everlasting life or eternal life is: permanent.
So, whether one is resurrected to immortal life in heaven,
or resurrected to everlasting life on earth it will be: forever.

If we are still alive at the time of Matthew [25vs31,32] and are counted as one of the sheep-like ones, we can remain alive and keep right on living right into the start of Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth.
Either way, all under Jesus rule will be cured. Healed forever.
Rev 22v2.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If God created/creates (same difference) everything,
and evil exists,
then obviously yes,
God created/creates evil.

According to Isaiah 45v7 God created evil.
However, evil in Scripture is not always synonymous with wrong doing.

When God's own people took up false sun worship [Ezekiel 8v16 B] God allowed enemy nations such as Babylon to conquer them. That 'evil' came upon those apostate people in the form of a 'calamity' by the Babylonians.

So, yes God did use calamity as an evil in the past, and in the future, as in the past, God will use a political/military 'ax', so to speak, against the world's false religious sector that has run afoul and plays false to God and his Word.
-Rev 17vs2,17; 18vs7,8

 

[sandy whitelinger]

This is in no way meant to be inflammatory, it is only my own logic and opinions. I do welcome other opinions on the matter.

The view held by Christian theology is that God did not create evil. You may argue this point using scripture to support either side. However that argument is but a symptom of a much larger problem which is choice and “free will”.

The concept among Christians is that sin, suffering, and evil deeds began with the “original sin”. The original sin was supposedly Adam and Eve’s disobedience, which is incorrect. The original sin started with Satan first, and then Adam and Eve second.

Using biblical logic we can see that God did not stop Satan from disobeying, he merely punishes or will punish Satan. God allowed Satan a choice. Satan in turn proposed that choice to Adam and Eve. Through their actions suffering and evil entered the world of man. The suffering and evil did not originate in reality with Adam and Eve. It originated when God allowed Satan a choice. Satan was supposedly the first creature to disobey. It is only in the world of humans that Adam and Eve were responsible for evil spreading, but Satan, using his option given by God, created evil.

Ultimately God allows choice or "free will".

The bible shows Satan created evil when he exercised his free will to oppose God. That choice that Satan took was offered to him by God. Both God and Satan are necessary ingredients in the creation of evil.

This is the most important concept and the origin of Gods involvement with the creation or allowance of evil.

If God created everything then he also created choice, or “free will”, and the ability to act upon that choice, as Satan demonstrated, which creates evil. He allows the capacity for disobedience and sin. Evil is a choice that was made by Satan given to him by God. Satan could never have made that choice if God hadn’t given it to him or allowed it in the same way God gave it to Adam and Eve. God must have created and allowed the ability for the two options prior to Satan’s choosing.

The problem is as follows. In a world with options, someone will take those options. It is in the free will and choices that exists good or bad. In order for the world to be without bad things, the option must be removed or blocked.

Mostly the objection to this idea is that people think without the option to disobey you aren’t truly free, and God of course wants us to be free. God does not want to force us to obey him. This is faulty logic simply because we are not, and have never been, as humans, truly free. I can not transform myself into a dinosaur. I am limited by the laws of physics, nature, and biology. We are not and have never been, as humans, truly free.

This is not a bad thing. Without the option of exercising evil you are no more limited in any capacity than you were before, in fact you would be better off without that option. You have unlimited other options, why would the removal of the ability to choose evil be equated to slavery? Do we truly need the choice to produce evil things for us to be “free”?

God is very busy in punishing the wicked. Punishment is a negative thing full of sorrow, guilt, and suffering. God participates in punishment, pain, and suffering. He also continues the evil by allowing the choice for disobedience in turn causing him to create Hell, destroy cities, and bring death as righteous punishment.

My real point is not to challenge the authenticity of the Christian God's existence, but to point to the idea that people do not know the God they choose to worship. Also that the bible is full of problematic theologies and concepts which create these imbalances in the image we create of God.

The short answer to the question on both counts is yes. Through choice God creates evil. If God created everything, then anything that is possible, or anything that exists, must have been created by God.

It's all God's fault. Debate closed, everyone happy?

 

[JustWondering]

According to Scripture who is the 'god' of this world of badness?
2nd Cor 4v4;1st John 5v19 makes Satan as this world's god or ruler.

Would you lend your enemy a helping hand to continue for him to do harm?

If God would help Satan patch up, so to speak, Satan's system, then God would be giving Satan a helping hand to perpetuate Satan's evil rulership.
Rev 12vs9,12

The mess the world is in shows beyond a doubt that under Satan mankind can not be successful.

So, by the time of Jesus millennial reign over earth all in heaven and all on earth will not be able to say things were successful without doing things God's Golden Rule way.

Remember: Jesus healing work was only a small sample of what he will do on a LARGE or GRAND scale during his thousand year reign.
-Rev 22v2

Jesus will reverse all the wrong perpetuated by Satan and his demons and those people that display Satan's mentality.
Rev [21vs4,5] says that God will make all things 'new'.
Even enemy death will be brought to nothing.-1st Cor 15v26
'Death' will be no more.

God knows the dead will be resurrected and cured.
Former troubles will be forgotten.
-Isaiah 65v17

So god inflicts all this suffering on us to show how powerful and awesome he is? From reading the bible it is clear to me that god demands worship and obidience or he will hurt you. Even if you do what he says he still toys with you. How is that not evil?

 

[FluentYank3825]

If God created/creates (same difference) everything,
and evil exists,
then obviously yes,
God created/creates evil.

An interesting syllogism, UV. Very simple, but profound. Gives me a lot of thought.

 

[cottage]

According to Job [2vs4,5] God does allow.

All of Satan's attacks have failed to make Satan's point that no one would follow God despite suffering.

Verse 5 Satan challenges that loss of health [touch bones and flesh] would turn people away from God. Both Job and Jesus proved Satan's challenge wrong and so can we.

God is not limited by time as we are right now.
Starting with Jesus thousand-year reign over earth: No more will suffering be allowed.

Satan bringing 'woe' [Rev 12vs9,12] to earth is only: temporary.
Everlasting life or eternal life is: permanent.
So, whether one is resurrected to immortal life in heaven,
or resurrected to everlasting life on earth it will be: forever.

If we are still alive at the time of Matthew [25vs31,32] and are counted as one of the sheep-like ones, we can remain alive and keep right on living right into the start of Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth.
Either way, all under Jesus rule will be cured. Healed forever.
Rev 22v2.

I'm sorry but the charge is unanswered. Even if God caused evil to cease upon the instant it is still the case that he still brought it into being, and he will remain on record as its author. A single example of evil proves the contradiction.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Satan brought 'evil' into being because Satan was under no pressure nor under no temptation to do evil in the form of badness.

Satan used 'evil' on Eve, not God.
Genesis 3v4
Satan committed the first sin by telling Eve a lie.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

The god of the bible is certainly capable of great evil. As Dawkins somewhere points out, he is among the most disgusting creatures in all of the world's literature:

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

:claps:

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Sunstone-

In Scripture evil is not always synonymous with wrongdoing.

What is evil about the Golden Rule?

What is evil about Leviticus 19vs18, 32-34 ?_______________

 

[esmith]

Satan brought 'evil' into being because Satan was under no pressure nor under no temptation to do evil in the form of badness.

Satan used 'evil' on Eve, not God.
Genesis 3v4
Satan committed the first sin by telling Eve a lie.

It is a general consensus that the creation stories of Genesis are myths/legends. Suggest that you try another reference.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It is a general consensus that the creation stories of Genesis are myths/legends. Suggest that you try another reference.

Is Jesus a reference?
Jesus referred to Genesis at Matthew 19vs5,6

Luke referred to Genesis at Luke 3v38
That genealogical list was public record for all to read.
No one in the first century denied that record was false.

 

[esmith]

Is Jesus a reference?
Jesus referred to Genesis at Matthew 19vs5,6

Luke referred to Genesis at Luke 3v38
That genealogical list was public record for all to read.
No one in the first century denied that record was false.

There were many creation stories in the Ancient Near East, Babylonian, Egyptian, Assyrian and others. The one that Genesis follows very closley is the Enuma Elish (which is considerably older than the book of Genesis). Most biblical scholars recognize that the Jewish author/authors of the book of Genesis was retelling the stories to remove the polytheistic attributes of the story to make it conform to the monotheistic beliefs of the ancient Jewish people. Just because someone referred to a story doesn't mean they took it as fact. Could they not be using it as a parable?

 

[idea]

It is a general consensus that the creation stories of Genesis are myths/legends. Suggest that you try another reference.

The issue with creation is that the definition of the word "create" has been warped into something that it was originally not connotative with. Many mistakenly believe that create means "poof - something from nothing". This is not the case at all. Create actually is defined as "transform, form, mold, change" - not ex-Nihlo.

God creates something = God transforms what eternally exists.

if you want refs, I can provide many

example:
(Old Testament | Isaiah 45:7)
7 I form the alight, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

should read:
7 I form the alight, and transform darkness: I make peace, and transform evil: I the LORD do all these things.


see:
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/5_creator.html
[SIZE=+1]Child Root (Branches of the Tree)[/SIZE]

[FONT=Palatino Linotype, Book Antiqua, Palatino, Georgia] Pronunciation: "Qa-NeH"
Meaning: To build a nest.
Comments: This child root is a nest builder, one who builds a nest such as a bird. Also God as in Bereshiyt (Genesis) 14.19; " God most high creator (qaneh) of sky and earth". The English word "create" is an abstract word and a foriegn concept to the Hebrews. While we see God as one who makes something from nothing (create), the Hebrews saw God like a bird who goes about acquiring and gathering materials to build a nest (qen), the sky and earth. The Hebrews saw man as the children (eggs) that God built the nest for. [/FONT]



see also:
http://www.dailyglobal.com/2009/10/god-is-not-the-creator-claims-academic/

or the Lexicon:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H1254&t=KJV
1) to create, shape, form
a) (Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject)
1) of heaven and earth
2) of individual man
3) of new conditions and circumstances
4) of transformations
b) (Niphal) to be created
1) of heaven and earth
2) of birth
3) of something new
4) of miracles
c) (Piel)
1) to cut down
2) to cut out
2) to be fat
a) (Hiphil) to make yourselves fat






so, create = to shape, fashion, transform, cut apart, form - IT DOES NOT MEAN TO MAKE SOMETHING FROM NOTHING...





which means...
God is cleaning up a mess He did not make.
God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. - 1 John 1:5

 

[esmith]

The issue with creation is that the definition of the word "create" has been warped into something that it was originally not connotative with. Many mistakenly believe that create means "poof - something from nothing". This is not the case at all. Create actually is defined as "transform, form, mold, change" - not ex-Nihlo.

I agree with you on not ex-Nihlo. However, I still stick with my answer in #97-myth/legend.

 

[idea]

I agree with you on not ex-Nihlo. However, I still stick with my answer in #97-myth/legend.

I believe that that Genesis is an account of a world that had become void...

(Old Testament | Genesis 1:2)
2 And the earth "haya" - had become without form, and void...

haya - Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

That two perfect beings took pity on the earth and descended from their [FONT=&quot]paradisiacal [/FONT]world to renew spirituality to this planet....

N2:25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.

 

[esmith]

I believe that that Genesis is an account of a world that had become void...

(Old Testament | Genesis 1:2)
2 And the earth "haya" - had become without form, and void...

haya - Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

That two perfect beings took pity on the earth and descended from their [FONT=&quot]paradisiacal [/FONT]world to renew spirituality to this planet....

N2:25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.

Not sure what you are saying.
Guess what I need to ask is: Do you believe that various stories in the Tanakh/Old Testament are completely 100% fact or do you believe that some of them are "made-up" to support the beliefs of the ancient Jewish people and some are elaborations of events?