does god exist

[Sententia]

Really? No one at all? What ARE we experiencing, then?

EDIT: Not that I don't sympathize with your frustration, but you know I can't let a remark like that pass without comment.

It is Isis... she is responsible for all god feelings and experiences....

Wow I thought everyone knew that... In reality there are lots of answers... temporal lobe epilepsy, self delusion, subjective conditioning

Are you familiar with the work of Dr Michael Persinger? Feeling something beyond yourself, bigger in space and time, can be stimulated.

Thats not to argue that there is not something beyond.... its just not proven... Still some go with Isis... can you blame them? Isis is hot.

 

[Autodidact]

Really? No one at all? What ARE we experiencing, then?

EDIT: Not that I don't sympathize with your frustration, but you know I can't let a remark like that pass without comment.

Isn't God defined as a being that cannot be perceived with any sense?

 

[Rolling_Stone]

No one feels God. As for the rest of your primitive myths, please spare me.

This is very typical of pseudoskepticism.

Once again, the arguments against theistic ideas fall into several categories:

1. The burden of proof is on the other side.
2. Entities shouldn’t be multiplied beyond necessity.
3. Scientific naturalism is a sufficient explanation.
4. There is no need to posit God since there are natural explanations for why people historically evolved belief in God.
5. Philosophically, the problem of evil has to be dealt with to the critic’s satisfaction.
6. Since there is no positive evidence for God’s existence, there is no rational reason to believe in whatever God or gods you may believe in.
7. One might as well believe in the flying spaghetti monster since no on can disprove its existence, either.

As I said, all of this sounds perfectly logical, but it deals only with the lack of evidence coming to us through the physical senses. Critics like Autodidact beg the issue by taking the view that evidence of God’s existence must be similar to the kinds of evidence science deals with, and this even though all religious traditions have teachings that say this isn't so

Anyone who's seen The Power of Myth interviews with Joseph Campbell are probably snickering at the "primitive myths" comment. :biglaugh:

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Are you familiar with the work of Dr Michael Persinger? Feeling something beyond yourself, bigger in space and time, can be stimulated.

Like the priest said who was told about it: "I certainly hope so!" (FYI, the artificially induced states do not have the same transformative power.)

 

[Sententia]

This is very typical of pseudoskepticism.

Once again, the arguments against theistic ideas fall into several categories:

1. The burden of proof is on the other side.
2. Entities shouldn’t be multiplied beyond necessity.
3. Scientific naturalism is a sufficient explanation.
4. There is no need to posit God since there are natural explanations for why people historically evolved belief in God.
5. Philosophically, the problem of evil has to be dealt with to the critic’s satisfaction.
6. Since there is no positive evidence for God’s existence, there is no rational reason to believe in whatever God or gods you may believe in.
7. One might as well believe in the flying spaghetti monster since no on can disprove its existence, either.

As I said, all of this sounds perfectly logical, but it deals only with the lack of evidence coming to us through the physical senses. Critics like Autodidact beg the issue by taking the view that evidence of God’s existence must be similar to the kinds of evidence science deals with and this even though all religious traditions have teachings that say this isn't so

Anyone who's seen The Power of Myth interviews with Joseph Campbell are probably snickering at the "primitive myths" comment. :biglaugh:

Nonsense... You are assuming there is evidence that can be seen outside of the physical senses... outside of the known senses. Your ESP argument... you have extra sensory perceptions and you do not need to prove it you can just state it and then it is so. Isn't that your 1st point there?

 

[Sententia]

(FYI, the artificially induced states do not have the same transformative power.)

???

So you are stating... there is the real thing and that it is always transformative or has the potential to be so... The few experiments done prove that this artificially induced state can never be transformative???

You have so many assumptions and logic issues here... You cant see past what you want to see and yet you claim you see more...

 

[Runewolf1973]

If a rock falls on the surface of a planet beyond our scientifically observable reach, but there is no living thing there to see it or hear it or feel it, does that mean that it did not happen? The energy which was affected by it's falling "realized" it happened, for it in return gave a response. Crack!
The way I view things is so....
There is that which is unknown and not experienced by normal human or animal senses but exists nonetheless, I call it "The Great Knowing".Then there is that which we know to exist by our own physical senses, I call it "The Great Realization". It is all a displacement and reaction of energy of one sort or another. To me there really is no God. There is just that which exists, some of which is unknown to us, but there nonetheless. Call it whatever you want, makes no difference. Is there any argument in this?

 

[autonomous1one1]

What do you see as the characteristics you refer to in point 3?

Thank you for your question, 9-10ths. There are many characteristics that have been surfaced through studies of such awakened beings. Permit me to mention just a few of the ones that make an awakened being more obvious:

• Eternal Life - the awakened being has realized eternal life and will offer expressions of such and, consequently, exhibit a complete lack of fear of death
• Non-dual Reality - the awakened being has realized a non-dual reality and will often express a oneness with God (by many different terms), one with all, and a conquering of the conditions of finitude such as subject/object structure (or process as Sunstone says), space-time, substance, and causality.
• Joy of Being - an underlying joy of being often will be exhibited with statements about joy, bliss and estatic being. (this last from YmirGF in the thread on joy of being)
• Ego Control - egoic or narcissistic normally conditioned responses are contained or missing.
• Heightened Levels - 'Personal responses to life would ..reflect the awakening of a higher moral, ethical, philosophical, and spiritual orientation over anything that was personal or cultural or even ethnically driven.' (wording borrowed from Andrew Cohen, Andrew Cohen & Ken Wilber in dialogue: The Leading Edge of the Leading Edge provided by Rolling_Stone in another thread.)

Hope this meets your expectations.

Regards,
a..1

 

[Storm]

Isn't God defined as a being that cannot be perceived with any sense?

I would modify that to the traditionally named physical senses. But countless people feel God. Sometimes it's a feeling of being loved, sometimes something harder to describe. But it's undeniably there.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Nonsense... You are assuming there is evidence that can be seen outside of the physical senses... outside of the known senses. Your ESP argument... you have extra sensory perceptions and you do not need to prove it you can just state it and then it is so. Isn't that your 1st point there?

Want references? It's common throughout all religious traditions. What a..1 and I refer to is something beyond the physical even if it makes impressions (registers) on the physical.

So you are stating... there is the real thing and that it is always transformative or has the potential to be so... The few experiments done prove that this artificially induced state can never be transformative?

Read Why God Won't Go Away, by Andrew Newberg, M.D., Eugene D'Aquili, M.D., Ph.D., and Vince Rause.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Like the priest said who was told about it: "I certainly hope so!" (FYI, the artificially induced states do not have the same transformative power.)

That seems rather disparaging to the religious traditions that do use artificially induced states to acheive what they believe to be transformative power.

Is what you have somehow superior to what is acheived in religions that use psychoactive substances (e.g. peyote, marijuana) or extreme conditions (e.g. a sweat lodge) to enable or enhance religious experiences?

 

[Runewolf1973]

That seems rather disparaging to the religious traditions that do use artificially induced states to acheive what they believe to be transformative power.

Is what you have somehow superior to what is acheived in religions that use psychoactive substances (e.g. peyote, marijuana) or extreme conditions (e.g. a sweat lodge) to enable or enhance religious experiences?

That is interesting. I actually do some shamanic practices and have contacted the other realm, but haven't needed to use any artificial substance to do so. Shamanism itself is rather like experiencing that "stillness of mind" too. Once you achieve that state of ecstasy, you are able to access certain visionary and healing powers. Not that I believe in God or anything, but I do believe in the realm of "All Knowledge". I guess in that way I have already experienced it first hand. It is also interesting that during shamanic trance, the shaman himself does not actually "know all" things, but rather it is the messengers or what you could call "the enlightened" spirits who come too him to relay that knowledge of healing. So a shaman does not know everything either. That concept is probably the most closely related to that of Animism which is basically the age-old belief in spirits of all things. I "know" and even modern science has proven that each thing gives off it's own energy vibration, even rocks or plants. We've used the energy vibrations of quartz crystals for use in quartz watches. Quartz has what is called piezoelectric properties. I believe that everything that exists has some kind of "force" such as this that effects us in ways we don't even realize. Perhaps our own human bodies give off some kind of energy such as this. Maybe this energy is the energy of "animation" or the "anima" in animism. Perhaps it was there all along, scientists already discovered that it exists, but haven't yet identified everything it is capable of doing. I wonder if it's possible our own thoughts are piezoelectric in some way. They give off a frequency in other words, that allows us to "communicate" with the other energies of what what we think of as "inanimate" objects. In all reality, does the notion of true "inanimate" really exist? All energy to me is very much animate. It always moves, always changes, and communicates on levels we don't even understand. To me it is that energy or "anima" that is truly ALL that is. It just happens that the early peoples only explanation of natural unexplained forces were what they could only describe as "spirits". But it's all up to YOU to decide, I myself no nothing. Perhaps in a way I am a bit crazy myself. But could that not be explained using the "chaos" theory? Maybe. Perhaps what people like to call "God", is not all completely up there either if you know what I mean. Perhaps that which we consider the oldest and most primitive "belief" is actually the one that is closest to understanding what is really going on. I don't know, just a thought. Just sending some of my own piezoelectric energy your way. At least have the open mind to think about it. Maybe I have everything wrong and I am just completely insane.:beach:

 

[Gharib]

Understanding is not the same thing as agreeing. For me to agree, you would need to be right. Pain is nothing like God, in that pain is a sensation that we (almost) all feel. No one feels God. As for the rest of your primitive myths, please spare me.

whats there to agree. and why would i need to be right, are you saying that im wrong. we cannot feel Allah physically but a smart person feels Him mentaly, spiritually and from his sorroundings, you see nature die (during dry seasons) and come to life(during wet seasons) how do you think it happens and please don't say rain (that would be a very lame answer) because rain is only the cause. if im wrong and you want me to spare you from my "primitive myths" then please be my guest and you tell me your "evidence" that Allah doesn't exist because if you cannot convince someone with the truth then let then convice them selves with lies

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... please be my guest and you tell me your "evidence" that Allah doesn't exist because if you cannot convince someone with the truth then let then convice them selves with lies

That is an exceptionally stupid argument.

 

[Gharib]

That is an exceptionally stupid argument.

can you please tell me what you mean because i gues "i'm stupid" and don't understand your response. please take the time to share your wisdom with us and you bring up an argument i'd love to see what you come up with

 

[S-word]

Does God exist?
The singularity that was in the beginning has become all that is and is the divine animating principle that pervades the entire Cosmos, and it has become 'Who I Am."

The fact that 'I AM,' proves that there is a God.

 

[emiliano]

Isn't God defined as a being that cannot be perceived with any sense?

Are you referring to the ontological argument for the existence of God?
Anyways the idea is that God is the greatest thought that our mind can conceive.
The most popular of these arguments is Saint Anselm’s, but it is a proof to the unbeliever as to convert them, it is rather a confirmation to the believer that their beliefs are rational and it defines it as:
Exhortation of the mind to the contemplation of God. --It casts aside cares, and excludes all thoughts save that of God, that it may seek Him. Man was created to see God. Man by sin lost the blessedness for which he was made, and found the misery for which he was not made. He did not keep this good when he could keep it easily. Without God it is ill with us. Our labors and attempts are in vain without God. Man cannot seek God, unless God himself teaches him; nor find him, unless he reveals himself. God created man in his image, that he might be mindful of him, think of him, and love him. The believer does not seek to understand, that he may believe, but he believes that he may understand: for unless he believed he would not understand.
Anselms Proslogion - Google Search

 

[S-word]

Man was not created to see God, for God dwells in unapproachable light and no physical man has nor can MAN ever see God. 1 Tim 6: 16.

 

[emiliano]

Man was not created to see God, for God dwells in unapproachable light and no physical man has nor can MAN ever see God. 1 Tim 6: 16.

That contradict the Lord’s teachings.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart! For they shall see God.
Also consider: Job 19:26 and even after they corrupt my skin, yet this: in my flesh I shall see God,

 

[kai]

Does God exist?
The singularity that was in the beginning has become all that is and is the divine animating principle that pervades the entire Cosmos, and it has become 'Who I Am."

The fact that 'I AM,' proves that there is a God.

thats it then i am convinced and shall prostrate myself immediately :yes: