does god exist

[Autodidact]

like i said bible in particular the gospels are considered as historical evidence. where evidence is defined as something which you can draw a conclusion from.

Kind of a circular definition there. Anyway, is there some reason you consider the Bible to be stronger evidence than other holy books? Have you read them? Are you familiar with the evidence in their support?

 

[Autodidact]

i dont see why you have dismissed the gospels as historical evidence.

Mostly because no one knows who wrote them, or exactly when, except that it was clearly generations after the events they describe. Also in general I'm skeptical of stuff that people write to persuade other people to join their religion, and and I bet you are--in all cases but your own.

and obviously it suggest that we christians arent christians for no reason.

Well I'm sure there's a reason, I just don't think it's a very good reason. The vast majority of Christians, like all other theists, are Christians because they were raised to be Christians.

 

[Autodidact]

Somewhere down the line the system is closed. There is some cause to each effect. And if there is some cause to each effect then there is a loss of energy in each of those causes. You are forced to assume infinite energy at some point. That, or you are forced to assume energy came from nothing (which is far more impossible considering energy can not even be truly conserved in a process, let alone created).

You are fundamentally mistaken in your physics, a field in which I'm guessing you're not very well educated. The total of all the energy and mass in the universe never changes, either up or down. It's constant.

 

[Autodidact]

historical evidence of jesus christ as the people who wrote the gospels are witnesses to his works.

Really? Who wrote them?

|| i am a christian because ive experienced gods presence which i know wont mean much to you.

What about Allah's presence, and Krishna's presence, and Vahiguru's presence? What makes your personal experience more reliable than theat of believers who have experienced their presence?

take platonic love for example - you cant really see it but the connection is still there.

The connection between what and what?

the bible doesnt prove god. we already establish that it is impossible to prove or disprove god. it is evidence.

It's just very weak evidence, better explained by other methods than God.

one to draw conclusion from. the conclusion doesnt necessarily have to be right but it is an indicator of what might be right. also with the link that you gave me: that does not prove that it is flawed and inaccurate. it just suggests contradiction, intoleracnce, injustince, cruelty etc. as to your argument about you being god - the gospels make two claims:
1. that god reserrected.
2. that he preformed miracles.
the jews did not deny that the tomb was empty and did not deny that he had some sort of magical powers. noting that the jews hated jesus.

What tomb? You haven't established that there was any tomb. btw, you're not making sense. The "Jesus" character of the Bible had as his followers only Jews. What do you mean the Jews didn't deny that Jesus had magical powers? No one has denied that my tiny invisible pocket fairy is magic, therefore it is. See the problem with your logic?

my dear friend. how do you know that it is just a concept. where is your evidence to back up this statement.
love & regards.

You're a little weak on this burden of proof concept, aren't you?

 

[Autodidact]

JewishEncyclopedia.com - JESUS OF NAZARETH.

from your cite:

In contemporary Jewish literature his career is referred to only in the (interpolated) passage of Josephus, "Ant." xviii. 3, § 3, while the references in the Talmud are for the most part as legendary as those in the apocryphal gospels, though in an opposite direction

You know that "interpolated" means "added later by someone else," in other words, "forged," right? Your cite contradicts your argument;it says that there is no contemporary Jewish reference to Jesus. None. Zip. Is that really the point you wanted to make?

 

[Rolling_Stone]

You are fundamentally mistaken in your physics, a field in which I'm guessing you're not very well educated. The total of all the energy and mass in the universe never changes, either up or down. It's constant.

You never heard of the "zero-point field"? I'm guessing you're not very well educated.

 

[Autodidact]

Congratulations on a carefully sculpted sentence. :yes:

BTW: any thoughts on Josephus?

The experts, of which I am not one, say it's either a forgery or an interpolation.

 

[Autodidact]

That seems kind of strange to me. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by the word worship.

You're saying that if you knew that someone was out there who loved you and had your best interests at heart and had all knowledge and all wisdom, you wouldn't ask him for advice (i.e. pray to him or read his writings)? You take his advice when offered (i.e. obey his word)?

If there is a great, powerful being who is in the habit of commanding his followers to slaughter little babies just because they come from a different tribe, who authorizes slavery, especially sexual slavery, who commands genocide and needs animal sacrifices, I choose not to worship such a being.

 

[Autodidact]

I don't read them.

Me neither. Why would anyone think that pieces out of their holy book would have any effect on people who don't believe it?!?

 

[Autodidact]

If God does not exist, nothing else does.
Since evidences point to the existence of things,
God does exist.

Ben

First establish your first premise.

 

[Autodidact]

By simple observations we deduce that everything that we see around (exist) has a cause and we know that at the beginning (whatever it place in time is) there must be an uncaused cause, the believer put God at that beginning to solve the problem of an infinite regression, but this does not means that this is the reasons why they believe and worship Him, we Christians believe in God existence by several and varied ways, the principal one is faith and that needs no proofs, we also have several solution and of noticed is God exist outside of time, in the end we realised that He exist. That He is supremely good, that He cares for us. That we can have communications with Him, this a personal and individualised experience that cannot be passed on to others, anyway I must tell you that not all believers come to believe because they need a beginning, it is not a must, what is a must is faith and we believe that this is a gift from God.

You do realize that your first two sentences contradict each other, right? Do you see any problem with that?

 

[Autodidact]

If no one is confident of the answers these sects are giving, then it is an individual responsibility to find the answer directly from God. Does this seem too daunting a task?

Think really hard. Do you see any problem with assuming that there is a God to ask whether there is a God? Any problem at all?

btw, we've already talked about how most of us don't read the Bible quotes, so they don't make a very effective argument. My suggestion would be to first persuade us that the Bible is true, then start in with the quotes.

 

[Autodidact]

You are getting it “If there is a god, and it wanted us to know it existed, there would universally be no doubt it existed” What if He does not want you? Will His Kingdom be incomplete because you won’t be there?

Then he's a really mean God.

 

[Autodidact]

It ain’t that hard, God is not the saviour of every Dick, Tom and Harry that ever lived, God is the saviour of those that believe, I have said this before we are all reprobates till the day that God in His mercy gives us the gift of faith, and is by Grace/unmerited favour, He may give it to the most harden atheist, so even you have a chance. Another attribute of God is Sovereignty, He has mercy on whom He wants.

Evidence? Or should we just believe pronouncements from some stranger on the internet?

 

[kai]

Its no good trying to prove or disprove in the existance of God by Physics or any other means is it? why bother? its a personal decision to beleive in a deity in such form as you wish , and its a personal decision not too, so the argumant is pointless.


Until the time as God decides to reveal himself to us all , then its the greatest pointless argument of all.

 

[Autodidact]

You never heard of the "zero-point field"? I'm guessing you're not very well educated.

Middling and spotty. See my name.

 

[Autodidact]

Its no good trying to prove or disprove in the existance of God by Physics or any other means is it? why bother? its a personal decision to beleive in a deity in such form as you wish , and its a personal decision not too, so the argumant is pointless.


Until the time as God decides to reveal himself to us all , then its the greatest pointless argument of all.

Well, it's a personal decision to believe things without evidence, yes, but why would you want to?

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Greetings R_S. Your posts always have enjoyable points for me. Would you say that the realization you mention here is very much the same as the awakening in my post #97 above? And, would you say from your perspective that 9-10ths, mball, and BalanceFX are sons of God also, they just do not realize it yet?
Regards,
a..1

I had to go back. I want to go back again to give some furbals. The answer to your question is, "Yes." But let me make clear that man is not "fallen," neither is he he in a state of forgetfulness even though the awakening (at least in my experience) is very much like remembering.

IS water appearent to fish? (I thought it was trans-parent).

My reference to the fish not seeing the water is based on a mystic saying: "The hardest thing for a fish to see is the water in which it swims." The infinity of my Father God is hidden from the mind because mind functions by discrimination. Infinity can be experienced directly, as A...1 said, but it cannot "found" or embodied by ideas. Looked for, it cannot be seen except by the seeing.

There is such a thing as "negative theology." Where theology makes positive statements, we should bear in mind that the map is not the territory, the finger pointing to the moon is not the moon. 9-10ths, autodidact, mball, and BalanceFX are truly the sons of God: I assume this because I assume they have a moral sense.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Autodidact, you can respond to several posts in one response by clicking on the + in the lower right corner. (Not that I really care. I generally ignore you, anyway.)

 

[Rolling_Stone]

1)there is an experience that some interpret as an 'awakening'
2)there are many examples documented and described throughout history
3)there is some consistency of characteristics among the 'awakened' persons
4)these characteristics result from the being that has believed and interpreted the experience and been transformed by it
5)if the experience is actually real as believed, the 'awakening' is of immense importance (e.g.'s, realization of eternal life, loss of fear, knowing a higher reality, etc.)
6)the experience is evidence in favor of God
7) Even one example of awakening that proved to be true would be significant.
8) Case studies of potentially awakened beings can be conducted to 'learn from others' and help collect evidence for our own experiment. (Literature research is essential in scientific investigation. )
9) One should verify and validate the findings of others through one's own study and experimentation.
10)The founders of religion each have pointed us in the same direction to begin our experiment. (See post #42 in thread Pitch your religion!) Yes, we must use ourselves in the experiment to 'know' for sure.

I would like to add a couple of caveats:

• Religious experience is intensely personal.
• Religious experience establishes direction, but sudden awakenings are relatively rare. Most awakenings occur over long periods of time and with great difficulty.