Does God Punish Feeling Lust?

[ppp]

Actually I'm not a fan of DarkMatter2525. I simply note that many youths are currently leaving the Christian faith. And maybe it's because they watched a vid like this and for a reason found it convincing. That's why I'm posting these threads. These 50k likes the video has speak a clear language about how many fans of that channel there really are in the world.

I think that you have cause and effect backwards. People aren't leaving Christianity because of these videos. People see the issues with Christianity and respond positively to videos such as this as a result.

 

[ChristineM]

I'd like to discuss

Spoiler

another prominent video

promoting atheism.

Last time, many atheists said that atheism didn't need a prophet or a leader in the way Christianity does.
Many atheists disagreed with the videos from that channel.

Nevertheless some agreed.
Taking into accoung the overwhelming success of the video, it has some 4.2 million clicks and as many as 50,000 likes, I'd like to discuss it here.
The likes can't stem from Christians, I think. *

At minute 2:30, the video says that God convicts "people for feeling [what lust feels like]".
I doubt it.
I think that lust is totally fine. Even for God. He created it, I think.

* it is the purpose of the channel to address religion "because of the people who believe in God." The author does not " want them to believe in a fantasy" as he says.

Ive never been punished so it must be there is no god

But i really would like to know where people get the idea they know gods thoughts because from what i see god always agrees with the claimant's view. A wonderful coincidence i think

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The question asks atheists if they think the video correctly portrays God's view on lust.

And I should have added: I'm talking about the Bible-God. So yeah, I could have been clearer.

Yeah... I don't think "Bible-God" has a single view on pretty much any issue.

I wouldn't expect even a single author's character to be entirely consistent, but with the Bible, you have dozens of authors all giving their take on the "Bible-God" character. It's a bit of a mess.

That being said, it's definitely a mainstream Christian view that God considers lust to be a sin.

 

[firedragon]

Let's dive into Koine Greek then: Matthew 5:28 Interlinear: but I -- I say to you, that every one who is looking on a woman to desire her, did already commit adultery with her in his heart.

So you see it says desiring her and not desiring [the sex with] her. Between the word "desiring" and "her" there are no other Greek words in between that could clarify that sex only is meant.

Furthermore, the word used for "desire" is one to indicate a wish in the broadest sense, I think:
Strong's Greek: 1937. ἐπιθυμέω (epithumeó) -- desire, lust after

This word isn't confined to a sexual meaning/ sexual lust. In Greek, you could desire anything, not just sex. (See same link)

I think @Estro Felino can help with the Koine Greek.

Nevertheless, are you actually making the case that just "desiring her", but not wanting to have sex with her like you explained, is enough to accuse a man of having committed adultery with her? Thats worse than the video.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thank you for your answers. In my opinion, the Bible is consistent, even in matters such as lust.

Heh... I probably care less about your opinion of what the Bible says than you care about the opinion of the Catholic Church.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

take the verse literally. It says desiring her is wrong. No sex mentioned. Sex included? yes it certainly is. But don't narrow it down to lust, I'd say.
Even if mainstream Christianity does... Bible is the arbiter of faith, and here we don't find the wording narrowing it down to sex (see post #10). This is at least my stance.

So I'm not begging off or resorting to irrational justifications, I don't undermine the entire Christian faith (in case you said I do).

The word "adultery" is very problematic for your stance here.

Do you have access to the words in their untranslated state to be able to compare the word being translated as "adultery" here and see what it means in the original language used? I don't have such access, but that might help clear this up. I could be entirely wrong... but then again so could you.

 

[Windwalker]

Thank you for your answers. In my opinion, the Bible is consistent, even in matters such as lust.

But that does not address my point. Is God punishing you because you got sick from eating a gallon of ice cream packed with candy bars for dinner instead of eating healthy food? Was that "God's wrath", because you acted stupidly with your body?

 

[thomas t]

I think @Estro Felino can help with the Koine Greek.

Nevertheless, are you actually making the case that just "desiring her", but not wanting to have sex with her like you explained, is enough to accuse a man of having committed adultery with her? Thats worse than the video.

no, actually "desiring her" is wanting her + the sex, in my opinion - while not caring about whether of not she wants you too plus the sex.
That's what the verse is talking of, in my opinion.

Heh... I probably care less about your opinion of what the Bible says than you care about the opinion of the Catholic Church.

I stay with my opinion regardless: there are no contradictions in the Bible, in my view.

 

[thomas t]

But that does not address my point. Is God punishing you because you got sick from eating a gallon of ice cream packed with candy bars for dinner instead of eating healthy food? Was that "God's wrath", because you acted stupidly with your body?

I don't know.

 

[ChristineM]

In my opinion, the Bible is consistent, even in matters such as lust.

That would explain the 200+ different English language versions of the bible and the 50,000 or so different sects of christianity each interpretating the version of the bible they prefer in their own way

 

[thomas t]

The word "adultery" is very problematic for your stance here.

Do you have access to the words in their untranslated state to be able to compare the word being translated as "adultery" here and see what it means in the original language used? I don't have such access, but that might help clear this up. I could be entirely wrong... but then again so could you.

In my opinion, this time it might not be useful to just look at the Greek word.
I'm pretty sure that Jesus and friends used the Hebrew concept of adultery... and the Greek writers just filled in their own word, wanting to mean the same concept.
So let's look at what the Hebrew concept means.
But here, I am pretty sure that marriage implies consent. This is the lesson we get from Genesis 24:58, in my opinion.
And consent is what is missing in Matthew 5. The guy is only desiring her - and not her consent.
That's really the crux of the matter, I think.

 

[Windwalker]

I don't know.

If I may help direct your thinking here? There is a difference between suffering the natural consequences for your actions, versus being punished. Being punished is an external force acting upon you. Suffering consequences is the result of you damaging yourself. It's an internal force, you acting against, or "punishing" yourself.

Stuffing yourself with ice cream and becoming ill, is not God sending his wrath upon you. God basically would be like a dietician who tells you, "eat healthy and be healthy". If you don't, then it isn't the dietitians punishing you. It's you not listening to the experts on eating healthy food, and finding out through suffering you should have listened to them. You did it to yourself, from beginning to end.

Make sense?

 

[Twilight Hue]

......
In my opinion, it refers to wanting the whole of the woman as property - not only sex with her.
Or I should rather say - not "only" sex with her.

Boy is Solomon in trouble now. He's the Hugh Hefner of the Bible.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think @Estro Felino can help with the Koine Greek.

Nevertheless, are you actually making the case that just "desiring her", but not wanting to have sex with her like you explained, is enough to accuse a man of having committed adultery with her? Thats worse than the video.

I do believe that if it had dealt with romantic love, Matthew would have used different verbs (the verbs that describe romantic love are countless).

I think epi-thymeo implies just a caprice...a meaningless desire.
Its roots probably means "upon a victim" since thyma means victim, prey.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I stay with my opinion regardless: there are no contradictions in the Bible, in my view.

You do that.

Contradictions as listed in the Skeptics Annotated Bible

 

[firedragon]

no, actually "desiring her" is wanting her + the sex, in my opinion - while not caring about whether of not she wants you too plus the sex.
That's what the verse is talking of, in my opinion.

Are you actually making the case that just "desiring her", but not wanting to have sex with her like you explained, is enough to accuse a man of having committed adultery with her? Thats worse than the video.

 

[firedragon]

I do believe that if it had dealt with romantic love, Matthew would have used different verbs (the verbs that describe romantic love are countless).

I think epi-thymeo implies just a caprice...a meaningless desire.
Its roots probably means "upon a victim" since thyma means victim, prey.

Hmm. Okay.

 

[1213]

...
I think that lust is totally fine. Even for God. He created it, I think....

Why do you think God created lust? What do you think lust is?

 

[thomas t]

Are you actually making the case that just "desiring her", but not wanting to have sex with her like you explained, is enough to accuse a man of having committed adultery with her? Thats worse than the video.

no, I said her + the sex with her.

 

[thomas t]

What do you think lust is?

Lust is Definition of LUST.

Why do you think God created lust?

Bible says "mulitply". Lust fits perfectly in, in my view.