TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
"created" = a temporal series of events.
This is like saying that santa lives north of absolute north.
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Does God require a creator?
- Thread starter an anarchist
- Start date
"created" = a temporal series of events.
This is like saying that santa lives north of absolute north.
Colt
Well-Known Member
North is a material designation, God is spirit.
PureX
Veteran Member
That's incorrect. Dearth Vader exists as a character in a popular story. Physical matter does not determine existence. Ideas about existence also exist.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Which isn't relevant to what I said.
I was talking about the word "created".
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
If you want to say that god exists in the same way that Darth Vader or ideas exist, then I agree.
Colt
Well-Known Member
The material universe we live in including time was created.
PureX
Veteran Member
I would say that, yes, but with the rather astonishing caviat that the God character and story has emerged in every culture and time that humans have been on Earth. Dearth Vader cleary did not. So if you're trying to imply a equivalent signifigance between them I would disagree with that.
I also would say that it's very strange to me that you would let the idea of God so easily alter or define your concept of existence.
No, since God =/= the universe.
It can?
No, because God didn't "come from" something. Whereas empirically we know the universe did. It hasn't always been as it is now. It's contingent. So, the argument goes, something necessary must underlie it.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
It is not time as we measure it relative to space.
You said "Why couldn't the universe 'just be'?"
..and now you are saying that it had a beginning, and that it is the beginning of time..
..in other words, the beginning of everything that could possibly exist.
What about other universes? Do they have to begin at the same time as ours?
Why could they not begin before ours?
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Sure. The word "our" is implied.
... existing outside of [ our ] existence.
... outside of [ our ] timeline.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
They are the same in relation to an author who is writing a book that includes both legal laws and physical laws.
I know. It's super easy to understand the concept. It works equally well for any invisible anything.
Exaltist Ethan
Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
Reality creates itself. The creator of reality is reality. One thing leads to the other. That is how I understand God. God creates God. Everything is just a series of actions caused by beings that cause more action. It's easier to realize than you think.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Do we require a creator or are we just a random fart in the space?
Progress in AI shows that intelligence can be created/programmed...
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
What space?
Such a question reminds me of someone asking whether "it is all real"..
..and somebody prods them with a pitchfork, and they decide that it is.
Is the character in the story actually Darth Vader, though? Or is the character only a model of Darth Vader?
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Yes, it's detectable but some people have doubted the senses.What space?
Such a question reminds me of someone asking whether "it is all real"..
..and somebody prods them with a pitchfork, and they decide that it is.
I mean with material atoms and parts that consists of atoms.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Wow. That's quite a small part of the physical universe and would mean that nothing material at all existed for the first 380,000 years after the big bang.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
There are a wide variety of innovations, that came into existence, not directly by the law of physics. The computer, for example, started in the imagination of humans long before it existed in realty. It was through imagination and human interaction with modified reality, that it eventually appeared within reality.
The computer came from nothing, in the sense of not being a logical consequence of the laws of physics. It did not just spontaneously appear in nature, using natural laws; grow on trees or appear in a copper mine. It required consciousness to first create a virtual presence in the imagination; imagine all the prototypes that didn't work in reality. The idea of a computer began within the matrix of the mind, with consciousness gradually able to bring it into tangible reality.
The human imagination can imagine more things than are defined by the laws of physics. Atheists, for example, assume religion is imaginary and does not follow the law of physics. We can imagine fiction and nonfiction, with the laws of physics more or less about nonfiction. All fiction, in essence, is outside the normal laws of physics, until it manifests itself in reality through the interaction of consciousness; innovation. A fictional fantasy sci fi movie; comes together from nothing; seed idea appears in the imagination, to become something after much physical effort; final movie, that now manifests itself in virtual reality, providing sensory data, so it appears semi-real. It can plant seeds for other innovations.
We live in space-time, which regulates the laws of physics. In space-time, time and space are connected like two people running a three legged race. Both have to act together as one thing. Theoretically, if time and space were not connected, they would not have to run awkwardly/slower, as one thing in a three legged race. Instead they could act as two separate things with four legs. This opens up more options, such as time and space not finishing the race at the same time.
If you could move in space, independent of time, you could be omnipresent, which is a classic attribute of God. Electrons in an atomic orbital fill in space as though this space is separated from time. The uncertainty principle can measure position or momentum but not both at the same time. Position is space and momentum takes time; separated space and time.
If all of space and time were not connected, we could not have photons of energy. Photons, like space-time, have connected space/wavelength and time/frequency running the three legged race. Energy does not exist in realm with separated space and separated time. It can only appear from separated space and separated time, if these two things merge and thereby restrict their movement via the three legged race of space-time; let there be light.
If we break that connection of space-time, we would have frequency without wavelength and wavelength without frequency; separated time and separated space, but no energy. All we would have is infinite entropy; infinite complexity of states but without substance as we know it. This allows for virtual reality; moving at the speed of thought, that can ignore the limits of the three legged race, to create something from nothing.