Does God welcome everyone into heaven?

[cataway]

When I find a JW in grave error, like you did with Enoch
I have to use your poison [so to speak] for you to realize your mistake.

Enoch was taken away by God, he did not die
Elijah was taken away by God, he did not die
The Lord Jesus Christ which you recognize as Angel Micheal and another Mighty God [apart from the Father]
Jesus died, buried for 3 days and resurrected and for 40 days walked the earth before being taken away by God

So what happened to John 3:13?

New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/nwt/books/john/3/#v43003013
13 Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven+ but the one who descended from heaven,+ the Son of man.

It is a mistranslated - because even the JW Bible says Enoch did not die and was taken away by God, ascended to heaven, transferred to heaven. So what is the faithful translation of the verse?

John 3:13 Living Bible (TLB)
For only I, the Messiah, have come to earth and will return to heaven again.
Bible Gateway passage: John 3:13 - Living Bible

That is the more fair translation of the John 3:13 because the Lord Jesus is the 3rd man to ascend into heaven, Enoch was the first man to be taken away by God to heaven.

Hebrews 11:5 Living Bible (TLB)
Enoch trusted God too, and that is why God took him away to heaven without dying; suddenly he was gone because God took him. Before this happened God had said how pleased he was with Enoch.

Hebrews 11:5 New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/nwt/books/hebrews/11/#v58011005

5 By faith Eʹnoch+ was transferred so as not to see death, and he was nowhere to be found because God had transferred him;+ for before he was transferred he received the witness that he had pleased God well.

So how come you made this grave mistake?
Maybe your church and your pastors are not genuine.
And believe me, I am viewing JW.org and find some of them not scriptural.

Considering how many different bibles there are and that so many of them virtually say the same thing. That Jesus came down and returned before any other person ,means your argument stands.... mute!

 

[Thief]

Then what is it?

I was pointing to what it is not

Adam did not lose his life for the acquisition of knowledge

and I do not believe he failed to gain heaven

not sure about Eve

 

[Trailblazer]

I was pointing to what it is not

Adam did not lose his life for the acquisition of knowledge

and I do not believe he failed to gain heaven

I agree, because I believe that Adam was a Prophet of God, the first Prophet in the Adamic Cycle of religion which ended with Muhammad, who was the Seal of the Prophets.

 

[CG Didymus]

I agree, because I believe that Adam was a Prophet of God, the first Prophet in the Adamic Cycle of religion which ended with Muhammad, who was the Seal of the Prophets.

Do Baha'is believe that he was the first human that God created? And, since the Bible doesn't indicate anything that I can see that would qualify him as a prophet, what is it that Baha'is say about him that makes you believe he's a prophet to the Baha'is? And don't Baha'is also believe him to be a "manifestation" of God?

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

How does a decomposed body come back to life?
Have you ever really thought this through?

God

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Trailblazer]

Do Baha'is believe that he was the first human that God created? And, since the Bible doesn't indicate anything that I can see that would qualify him as a prophet, what is it that Baha'is say about him that makes you believe he's a prophet to the Baha'is? And don't Baha'is also believe him to be a "manifestation" of God?

No, Baha'is do not believe Adam was the first human. Humans evolved some 200,000 - 300,000 years ago, they were not created. According to Baha'i beliefs there were many religious cycles that predated the Adamic Cycle of religion but since the art of writing did not exist before Adam, we have no records of those religious cycles.

We believe Adam was a Prophet because Abdu'l-Baha said that Adam was a Prophet, and that is really the same as a Manifestation of God since Adam was a major Prophet.

 

[Trailblazer]

God

That does not explain how does a decomposed body can come back to life.
That is in defiance of God's laws. God has no reason to defy His own laws.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

That does not explain how does a decomposed body can come back to life.
That is in defiance of God's laws. God has no reason to defy His own laws.

I don't know how God does what He does. Do you? What laws?

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't know how God does what He does. Do you? What laws?

I do not know how God does what God does but the Bible does not say that God brings people back from a state of
Decomposition. That belief came about because of a misinterpretation of scriptures. I believe that Paul was talking about a spiritual resurrection, not a physical one.

God made the natural laws, and Decomposition is one of the natural laws. Bodies die and decompose and the soul (spirit) then passes from this world into another world. The man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought is what constitutes man.

I believe that when the soul (spirit) passes from this world into the spiritual world, it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements. Since there is nothing physical (e.g., oxygen, water, food) in the spiritual world (heaven) a physical body cannot exist there and is of no use to anyone. I also believe that Jesus is alive in heaven in a spiritual body, not a physical body, and Jesus is with God.

 

[MJFlores]

Considering how many different bibles there are and that so many of them virtually say the same thing. That Jesus came down and returned before any other person ,means your argument stands.... mute!

That is why God sends messengers, not everyone can teach.

Romans 10:15 New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
And how can anyone preach without being sent? It is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

The dangers posed by preachers not sent by God is great.
That is why you have adulterated translations and mistranslations.
And that is why you have so many "Christian" religions in the world.

Only God bonafide messengers could in fact bring out the truth from the Bible.
And only those called by God, listens to the truth and knows what is true from what is false.
It is not a matter of argument, this is not a contest but it is the hallmarks of having the spirit of the truth.

1 John 4:6 Good News Translation (GNT)
But we belong to God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever does not belong to God does not listen to us. This, then, is how we can tell the difference between the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

 

[MJFlores]

It is a biblical concept. John 1:12 and John 3:16 come to mind.

It's neither cheap nor easy, our Savior paid a massive price. If I'm starving and you give me food, it's a free gift for me but cost you for the food. I don't get more of a free gift by trying harder or asking harder. It's a free gift I receive, like a vaccine for a (sin) virus.

Salvation is a free gift, Romans 6:23.

Salvation is a free gift indeed, but is for those who are truly His.

How can on group of people be His when the doctrines being taught in the group are contrary to God's doctrines?
Then such feeling of being saved is just a feeling because in the end, they are doomed.

 

[Trailblazer]

How can on group of people be His when the doctrines being taught in the group are contrary to God's doctrines?
Then such feeling of being saved is just a feeling because in the end, they are doomed.

With all due respect, this is what I hear many Christians say about the 'other' Christians.
They believe their doctrines are the correct ones......
They believe they are God's special group........
They believe the other Christians are doomed......

They are reading the same Bible, yet they believe different things......
So how is one to know which one is correct?.

 

[Trailblazer]

Salvation is a free gift indeed, but is for those who are truly His.

All Christians I have seen believe they are truly His, yet they have nothing to base this upon except their feelings.
I mean they have no proof that their understanding of the scriptures is any better than anyone else's.

 

[Agent]

Self righteous people do not name it and claim it into heaven. Then everybody who does what is right in their own eyes goes to heaven.
rev 22 [12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

I do not know how God does what God does but the Bible does not say that God brings people back from a state of
Decomposition. That belief came about because of a misinterpretation of scriptures. I believe that Paul was talking about a spiritual resurrection, not a physical one.

God made the natural laws, and Decomposition is one of the natural laws. Bodies die and decompose and the soul (spirit) then passes from this world into another world. The man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought is what constitutes man.

I believe that when the soul (spirit) passes from this world into the spiritual world, it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements. Since there is nothing physical (e.g., oxygen, water, food) in the spiritual world (heaven) a physical body cannot exist there and is of no use to anyone. I also believe that Jesus is alive in heaven in a spiritual body, not a physical body, and Jesus is with God.

The whole point of resurrection has to do with the body. You must reconsider your position.

(Luke 24:37-39) "But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed hat they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

(John 20:27) "Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing."

Yes all natural laws are from God. And He works with them and outside of them. Thus the many miracles that He does. God who created mans body can just as easy raise it again, no matter the destruction it endured. It will certainly be a spiritual body, fitted for the spiritual world, and without sin. But it will be a physical body. Just like Adam and Eve had before the Fall.

There is no need for a spiritual resurrection.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

This question is for believers and nonbelievers.

If God exists/existed would God welcome everyone into heaven as soon as they died, regardless of the kind of life they had lived on earth? For example, would God welcome a mass murderer into heaven and treat him the same way as a person who had lived a noble life serving others and worshiping God?

If you think God would welcome everyone into heaven, why would God do that?

If you think God would not welcome everyone into heaven why wouldn’t God do that?

Dear Trailblazer,

If we imagine that at death, we understand our actions in life, through the eyes of others ...or, from what I tend to think of as the “God perspective” (all-encompassing, bird’s-eye view), so that we, as we leave our embodied selves, understand the true impact that our actions in life have had; then, the optimism we have spread, the inspiration we have been, the comfort we have provided, the suffering we have contributed to - all of that, we shall feel. Depending on what we gave, it will be heaven or hell. But I do believe that once we truly have understood (through experiencing them as though of first hand), all souls do find peace in God.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[BilliardsBall]

Salvation is a free gift indeed, but is for those who are truly His.

How can on group of people be His when the doctrines being taught in the group are contrary to God's doctrines?
Then such feeling of being saved is just a feeling because in the end, they are doomed.

You are asking about feelings, are you using feelings to see who is saved? It is entirely possible for someone to receive a free gift on Monday and have bad doctrines on Tuesday. It takes time to learn sound doctrine.

Biblically, we are saved by receiving a free gift, not by receiving feelings or doctrines.

 

[Trailblazer]

But I do believe that once we truly have understood (through experiencing them as though of first hand), all souls do find peace in God.

I believe they will if they want to, but there is no reason to believe 'everyone' will want to be near to God.

 

[Trailblazer]

The whole point of resurrection has to do with the body. You must reconsider your position.

I do not believe there is a resurrection, there is simply a passage from one world into another.

(Luke 24:37-39) "But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed hat they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

(John 20:27) "Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing."

I believe these were just stories that men wrote about Jesus, they ever really happened.
But even if Jesus rose from the dead that does not mean that anyone else is going to rise from the grave.

Yes all natural laws are from God. And He works with them and outside of them. Thus the many miracles that He does. God who created mans body can just as easy raise it again, no matter the destruction it endured. It will certainly be a spiritual body, fitted for the spiritual world, and without sin. But it will be a physical body. Just like Adam and Eve had before the Fall.

There is no need for a spiritual resurrection.

There is no need for a bodily resurrection because the physical body will be of no use in heaven.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Jesus did not say that your body must be born again. Where did Jesus EVER talk about rising from the grave? Nowhere. People rising from graves en masse is simply a Church doctrine which is based upon a misinterpretation of the Bible. Jesus said to let the dead bury their dead. Being born of the spirit has nothing to do with the body. It means spiritual rebirth.

I go by what Jesus said, not by what people wrote about Him decades later. I am not trying to convince you of anything because I realize that Christians are not going to change their position since they have been raised believing these doctrines of the Church.

 

[MJFlores]

They are reading the same Bible, yet they believe different things......
So how is one to know which one is correct?.

If one is correct, the religion is of Christ and if it is of Christ then it is of God.
On the other hand if a religion isn't then that belongs to another person, man-made and not of God.

The Bible tells us how an incorrect [false] preacher/religion will behave
How they will act and how they conduct themselves.

In the first century Church of Christ, false teachers came from within the church.

Acts 20:29 New Living Translation (NLT)
I know that false teachers, like vicious wolves, will come in among you after I leave, not sparing the flock.

And this false teachers was aided by the might of the Roman Empire to achieve their apostasy. Which some of them are recorded in the annals of history. Diocletianic Persecution - Wikipedia

Fast forward to the present time, the Bible describes them as:

2 Peter 2:1-3 New Living Translation (NLT)
But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them. In this way, they will bring sudden destruction on themselves. Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered. In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

Galatians 4:17 New Living Translation (NLT)
Those false teachers are so eager to win your favor, but their intentions are not good. They are trying to shut you off from me so that you will pay attention only to them.

So instead of teaching the pure doctrines of the Bible, they will divert your attention to their own stories, their own personal experiences and create the illusion that you be rich beyond your wildest dreams if you show them your money - that is prosperity gospel.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils,

Speaking lies in hypocrisy, and having their conscience seared,

Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful, and by them that have known the truth.

When you see these things [as the Bible records it] - well you can be sure they are not going "upstairs".

All Christians I have seen believe they are truly His, yet they have nothing to base this upon except their feelings.
I mean they have no proof that their understanding of the scriptures is any better than anyone else's.

Not all Christians are truly His
And this fact was mentioned by Jesus Christ himself

Matthew 7:21-23 New Living Translation (NLT)
“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

These are "Christians" who performed many things in Jesus name.
They have cast out demons, removed unclean spirits on those who were possessed
They have performed great things in Jesus name and even preached the Bible in his name.
These people are considered much nearer to heaven in an ordinary "Christian's" eyes
One may say, they are heaven bound because it seems like Jesus is answering their prayers as they asked for these miracles to be done in Jesus holy name.

But on Judgement Day what will Jesus tell them?

I never knew you.​

Sad isn't it? From Day 1, Jesus never knew this "Christian"
Because in fact they were really not really Christian even if they feel very Christian
So these people are MANY as the Bible says, will not going "upstairs"