Does God work through human beings?

tomato1236 · Sep 17, 2010

Mosiah 8:
16 And Ammon said that a seer is a revelator and a prophet also; and a gift which is greater can no man have, except he should possess the power of God, which no man can; yet a man may have great power given him from God.
17 But a seer can know of things which are past, and also of things which are to come, and by them shall all things be revealed, or, rather, shall secret things be made manifest, and hidden things shall come to light, and things which are not known shall be made known by them, and also things shall be made known by them which otherwise could not be known.

18 Thus God has provided a means that man, through faith, might work mighty miracles; therefore he becometh a great benefit to his fellow beings.

tomato1236 · Sep 17, 2010

Moroni 10:
8 And again, I exhort you, my brethren, that ye deny not the agifts of God, for they are many; and they come from the same God. And there are bdifferent ways that these gifts are administered; but it is the same God who worketh all in all; and they are given by the manifestations of the cSpirit of God unto men, to profit them.

9 aFor behold, to one is given by the Spirit of God, that he may bteach the word of wisdom;

10 And to another, that he may ateach the word of bknowledge by the same Spirit;

11 And to another, exceedingly great afaith; and to another, the gifts of bhealing by the same Spirit;

12 And again, to another, that he may work mighty amiracles;

13 And again, to another, that he may prophesy concerning all things;

14 And again, to another, the beholding of angels and ministering spirits;

15 And again, to another, all kinds of tongues;

16 And again, to another, the interpretation of alanguages and of divers kinds of tongues.

McBell · Sep 17, 2010

I bet if one was to put Mr Tomato on ignore that it would not alter the debate any other than to remove a bunch of randomly posted religious text.

PolyHedral · Sep 17, 2010

^^ Why are you bolding definite articles?

And I still haven't seen an answer as to why.

tomato1236 · Sep 17, 2010

Mestemia said:
I bet if one was to put Mr Tomato on ignore that it would not alter the debate any other than to remove a bunch of randomly posted religious text.

It's applicable. If you're willing to read it, that is.

McBell · Sep 17, 2010

tomato1236 said:
It's applicable. If you're willing to read it, that is.

It is only applicable if you are part of the choir.
You should be aware that not many in this thread, if any, are a part of your choir.

sniper762 · Sep 17, 2010

i was just noting that if mumans are god, then all of the fundamental traditianal christian beliefs are destroyed.

stillsearching · Sep 17, 2010

tomato1236 said:
Mosiah 8:

18 Thus God has provided a means that man, through faith, might work mighty miracles; therefore he becometh a great benefit to his fellow beings.

From the verse above he is saying that God does work through man.

McBell · Sep 17, 2010

sniper762 said:
i was just noting that if mumans are god, then all of the fundamental traditianal christian beliefs are destroyed.

Again, based on what?

PolyHedral · Sep 17, 2010

Because Christianity relies on there being an external God, and without that all the theology comes crashing down, since it's based on a false premise?

stillsearching · Sep 17, 2010

PolyHedral said:
Because Christianity relies on there being an external God, and without that all the theology comes crashing down, since it's based on a false premise?

Humans are not Gods so I don't see what the issue is here.

tomato1236 · Sep 17, 2010

stillsearching said:
From the verse above he is saying that God does work through man.

See? Still was willing to read it, and consequently got it.

Kilgore Trout · Sep 17, 2010

If god didn't work through human beings, he wouldn't accomplish anything at all. Of course, this is a strong indication that god is just in people's heads.

tomato1236 · Sep 17, 2010

Mestemia said:
It is only applicable if you are part of the choir.
You should be aware that not many in this thread, if any, are a part of your choir.

I am aware. Still applicable.

Different choirs can sing the same songs.

Penumbra · Sep 17, 2010

If a god interacts in this world, why is it so inconsistent? Why did people starve to death today, or commit suicide, or get raped and killed? Where was god for them?

I don't think there is any interaction from any gods. I see no reason to believe that there is. All of the good or bad comes from humans and from nature.

tomato1236 · Sep 17, 2010

Penumbra said:
If a god interacts in this world, why is it so inconsistent? Why did people starve to death today, or commit suicide, or get raped and killed? Where was god for them?

I don't think there is any interaction from any gods. I see no reason to believe that there is. All of the good or bad comes from humans and from nature.

Sounds like you should look into Eastern religions/philosophies. They're generally concerned about eliminating suffering. Is the value of the existance of a God his ability and willingness to prevent all suffering?

Penumbra · Sep 17, 2010

tomato1236 said:
Sounds like you should look into Eastern religions/philosophies. They're generally concerned about eliminating suffering.

I've looked into them already.

Is the value of the existance of a God his ability and willingness to prevent all suffering?

Depends. Some sorts of suffering can be useful for growth.

But if a small child dies in agony of starvation and disease at age 5, that wasn't much growth. If a person at some point in their life succumbs to depression and commits suicide, then apparently that growth wasn't working out. A lot of suffering is meaningless, and people that claim that god interacts with humans to bring about positive situations seem to imply that god is very inconsistent.

Midnight Pete · Sep 17, 2010

Penumbra said:
I've looked into them already.

Depends. Some sorts of suffering can be useful for growth.

But if a small child dies in agony of starvation and disease at age 5, that wasn't much growth. If a person at some point in their life succumbs to depression and commits suicide, then apparently that growth wasn't working out. A lot of suffering is meaningless, and people that claim that god interacts with humans to bring about positive situations seem to imply that god is very inconsistent.

The "inconsistent" nature of God's interaction with humans to bring about positive situations is how free will is maintained. The freedom to choose between good and evil must be preserved, which is why the world is filled with the consequences of a human race that knows good from evil but still chooses to do evil ... most of the time. It's called human depravity.

Penumbra · Sep 17, 2010

Midnight Pete said:
The "inconsistent" nature of God's interaction with humans to bring about positive situations is how free will is maintained. The freedom to choose between good and evil must be preserved, which is why the world is filled with the consequences of a human race that knows good from evil but still chooses to do evil ... most of the time.

So when does god interact?

Midnight Pete · Sep 17, 2010

Penumbra said:
So when does god interact?

When people pray for a miracle (ie. for a loved one's recovery from illness) and then they get one, that would be a divine interaction that is both expected and desired. But there are situations in which the divine interaction is neither expected nor desired, usually when God is trying to tell you something in a way that gets your attention but not in a nice way (like illness).

Do you understand?

Does God work through human beings?

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