Does God work through human beings?

[sniper762]

god does not bring illness upon you

 

[Penumbra]

When people pray for a miracle (ie. for a loved one's recovery from illness) and then they get one, that would be an divine interaction that is both expected and desired.

But they could also pray and find that their prayer has gone unanswered.

Studies show mixed results regarding the effectiveness or prayer. Some studies show that it does not help at all, while others show that it has a small positive statistical effect, while others show that it has a small negative statistical effect.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Why so inconsistent?

But there are situations in which the divine interaction is neither expected nor desired, usually when God is trying to tell you something in a way that gets your attention but not in a nice way (like illness).

So in what way is god trying to get the attention of starving five-year-olds or suicidally depressed people?

Why do some people claim to receive interaction and not others?

Do you understand?

I think I understand what your saying, but I do not find it logical.

 

[Midnight Pete]

But they could also pray and find that their prayer has gone unanswered.

Studies show mixed results regarding the effectiveness or prayer. Some studies show that it does not help at all, while others show that it has a small positive statistical effect, while others show that it has a small negative statistical effect.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Why so inconsistent?


So in what way is god trying to get the attention of starving five-year-olds or suicidally depressed people?

Why do some people claim to receive interaction and not others?


I think I understand what your saying, but I do not find it logical.

It is not logical. It obviously confounds logic.

 

[Penumbra]

It is not logical. It obviously confounds logic.

So basically interaction is inconsistent or non-existent.

 

[Midnight Pete]

So basically interaction is inconsistent or non-existent.

Yes. :no:

No. :yes:

 

[Beaudreaux]

I do!

When people are moved by the Holy Spirit, you could say they are being used by God to do/say certain things at certain times, in certain places. To be used by God (to do His will) is the hope of Christians everywhere, including myself.

Doesn't this mean that God abrogates free will though? If he truly "sent" you to do something for him, that would mean that you would not have done it unless He had intervened, right? If he intervened to change your motivations and actions, he violated free will. If he did not, we can hardly say he used you since you acted the way you would normally.

 

[Beaudreaux]

I believe that he does work through other people.

My husband and I were struggling to make ends meet in some of the earlier years in our major and we were just scraping by. Living paycheck to paycheck and just getting the bills met. We had a little girl at the time and Christmas was coming up. There wasn't any money left to get her anything for Christmas, which was just going to have to be OK. Late one night there was a knock on our door and there was a man standing there whom I had never seen before. He knew my name and addressed me and then gave me an envelope. There wasn't much money in it, but it was enough that we were able to give my daughter a Christmas.

God worked through that man that night.

God made him do that?

 

[Beaudreaux]

I don't think it's usually quite so direct, but yes, I do think that God works through people quite a bit. I think, in fact, that is mostly how God acts in the created world. Because I think that the universe can't take too much "miraculous" alteration-- it's like how in a game, if you bend the rules once or twice, it is what it is, but if you break the rules all the time, it's really not the same game anymore-- instead, God influences people (and I mean influence, not force) to do right by others, to help out, and to further the Divine Plan.

What is the mechanism of this influence? How do we distinguish between someone who is just being kind and someone who has been influenced by God to be kind?

 

[Beaudreaux]

When people pray for a miracle (ie. for a loved one's recovery from illness) and then they get one, that would be a divine interaction that is both expected and desired. But there are situations in which the divine interaction is neither expected nor desired, usually when God is trying to tell you something in a way that gets your attention but not in a nice way (like illness).

Do you understand?

Sometimes God intervenes in the world to give people illness???

 

[Midnight Pete]

Sometimes God intervenes in the world to give people illness???

Sometimes the gentler ways of getting through to someone aren't effective-- people are stubborn and stupid. You may not believe it, but poeple have heard God's voice talking to them through all sorts of adverse circumstances. I believe God uses trials & tribulations to communicate with us because I have experienced this myself, many times. Sometimes when God speaks to you it is for you and you alone, but only if you are willing to listen.

 

[PolyHedral]

But why all of this indirection and obfuscation? Directly telling someone what you want them to do (and maybe demonstrating that you aren't a hallucination) will work in the majority of cases.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Doesn't this mean that God abrogates free will though? If he truly "sent" you to do something for him, that would mean that you would not have done it unless He had intervened, right? If he intervened to change your motivations and actions, he violated free will. If he did not, we can hardly say he used you since you acted the way you would normally.

No response?

 

[ButTheCatCameBack]

If the Christian God is omniscience. You an throw the whole concept of free will out the window. At that point. Humans are little more than rats in a cosmic maze, scurrying around.

 

[stillsearching]

God made him do that?

God didn't make him do that. I think it was more of prompting and the guy acted upon it.

 

[tomato1236]

But they could also pray and find that their prayer has gone unanswered.

Studies show mixed results regarding the effectiveness or prayer. Some studies show that it does not help at all, while others show that it has a small positive statistical effect, while others show that it has a small negative statistical effect.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Why so inconsistent?


So in what way is god trying to get the attention of starving five-year-olds or suicidally depressed people?

Why do some people claim to receive interaction and not others?


I think I understand what your saying, but I do not find it logical.

Haha that study is great. Some sciencey folks went into churches and said, ok, we want you to pray for the people on this list by name. You can pray however you want to, but you have to say this certain phrase. Okay go.

 

[Beaudreaux]

God didn't make him do that. I think it was more of prompting and the guy acted upon it.

So, God did not "work through" this person because it was the person who took the action of their own volition. If I understand you correctly, this person might very well have ignored God's prompting.

BTW, what is the form of this prompting?

 

[stillsearching]

So, God did not "work through" this person because it was the person who took the action of their own volition. If I understand you correctly, this person might very well have ignored God's prompting.

BTW, what is the form of this prompting?

So are you looking for a puppet type thing? Where God is holding the strings and making people do his will?
If God gave this guy the thought or whispered to him to do something and the guy does it then isn't that Him working through people? And, yes, the guy could have ignored the prompting. I am just glad he didn't.

 

[Beaudreaux]

So are you looking for a puppet type thing? Where God is holding the strings and making people do his will?
If God gave this guy the thought or whispered to him to do something and the guy does it then isn't that Him working through people? And, yes, the guy could have ignored the prompting. I am just glad he didn't.

I'm not looking for anything, thank you. I am quite content in not believing there is such a God.

However, I do want to try to understand what religious folk mean when they say that God works though humans. It sounds like God makes "suggestions" to people who may or may not choose to follow them.

If I suggested to someone that they go help someone else, and they did it, I would not be comfortable saying that I was working through the helper, especially when I could have done the helping myself. And I still wonder how exactly God does this "suggesting".

 

[stillsearching]

Well, the way I see God working through people is that he sends people to aid those that are in need. There are some people (like us) that don't tell people all of their woes and issues and so it was quite a big deal to have someone on our doorstep giving us some money in answer of our prayers.
Since it would have been a little weird to have God show up with some money I think it was great that He acted through someone else.

I believe that God would do his suggesting by thoughts or whispering of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Well, the way I see God working through people is that he sends people to aid those that are in need. There are some people (like us) that don't tell people all of their woes and issues and so it was quite a big deal to have someone on our doorstep giving us some money in answer of our prayers.
Since it would have been a little weird to have God show up with some money I think it was great that He acted through someone else.

I believe that God would do his suggesting by thoughts or whispering of the Holy Spirit.

If I whispered to someone that they should consider studying medicine, is it fair to say that I made them a doctor? It seems you are giving too much credit to God.