Does having a religion make you a better person?

[Aupmanyav]

No. A person is better or not so because of other reasons.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Yup. I think it even helped to normalize and blind me to the abusiveness of my mom because that's how she is. Extremely strict, extremly picky and finicky, looking for any excuse or reason to disaprove, no tolerance for disobedience, amd entirely hypocritical with policy of do as I say, not as I do and with scarce amount if praise but an endless supply of anger and punishment for any trangression no matter how minor.

And I'm sorry you had to go through that. My heart goes out to you because I understand how it feels to be abused and mistreated like that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Without your side getting along with my side we're not gonna live in a nonreligious world, we're gonna live in a religious world. Don't let Jesus outwit you and divide us from each other.

What side? I tend to not have many "sides," and the ones I have are mostly marginalized, ostracized and misfit outcasts.

Why are you denying this?

Because I know that simply does not apply to many Christians.

Would you really want to be aggressively against people believing Jesus isn't God?

I am?

learned from chatgpt that atheists are 2-7% of the 16-18% spiritually unaffiliated.

And? This is relevant how? By the way, atheists are about 7% of the global population. In America the nones are about 30% and growing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I wish you well on your journey. You could explain to your mom how she is harming you if you did research on the subject, even youtube psychology.

I don't recommend youtubing psychology. It's what my degree is in, I've worked in the field, and I've seen a lot 9f bad advice out there that claims to be psychology but is not an acceoted practice in the field (self helps books are a minefield of potentially bad and dangerous ideas, for example).
As for my mom, she's shut off to all that and will spin things endlessly to make herself look better. I can't even point out how much she misses due her abysmal lack of mindfulness and she takes it personal and gets mad.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I saved myself from the abuse because neither God nor my extended family, the neighbors, my teachers at school, or anyone else who knew I was being abused lifted a finger to protect me and save my life. I saved myself from being abused after many years of pleading with God to protect me.

That's a very common story among us exs, I've noticed. Our details vary, but in the end it so frequently is the failure of others, including and especially god, to stop the torments and bullying that drives people away.
I suppose it may help prime us to better see "the healing hand held back by the deepened nail," helping us to see a "god that failed" (Metallica) and having us walking away.

 

[Ella S.]

So why not simply be a better person? Why bring religion into it?

What does it mean to be a "better" person?

Whatever answer you give is a normative evaluation. Under the definition of religion given by the concept of non-overlapping magisteria, religion is what deals with evaluative and normative claims, whereas science is what deals with factual claims.

That doesn't necessarily involve organized religion, but if you're creating a general standard for everyone to adhere to then that generally means you're going to have some kind of institution or community. That's how you get organized religion or legal systems, which have historically been the same thing for much of human history.

That's why we have the concept of "secular civil religion," too, which fills the same need for an agreed-upon normative standard for a society.

Without that, whoever is a "better" person is subject to personal interpretation. Anyone can claim to be "better" than everyone else without actually having to change who they are or what they do, because it requires no deference to any objective standard. The very concept of being "better" becomes meaningless, since language itself is entirely about agreed upon standards. That's how you arrive at moral nihilism.

A moral nihilist probably wouldn't care about being a better person because they would see the question itself as meaningless. So what you're really asking is why people don't conform to your standards of what constitutes a "better" person and the answer is pretty simple. They don't agree on your standards because they are not you. Instead, they agree with the standards set forward by their religion. Why? Because they believe in their religion and/or they are a part of a religious community where that is expected of them.

It is not that religion has been brought into it. It is that religion cannot be cleanly divided from it.

Now, we can adhere to a form of non-religious ethics. I am not saying that we cannot. Utilitarianism, Existentialism, and Humanism are popular examples of that, but there is still a standard there. It still fills one of the same functions that religion used to fill as a part of its more inclusive package.

 

[InChrist]

You are judging them as having this relationship, not being born again. Even Paul conceeds that Christians will continue to sin.

And I agree with Paul. It’s obvious Christians still sin. But there’s a difference in a born again believers’s attitude toward sin and type of sin. I just met a very happy man last week when dropping off some donation items at Christian thrift store. He started telling me about how ten years prior he’d spent years in and out of jail, doing drugs, selling drugs, living in a meth house, and a bunch of other stuff. One night he told me that while looking out at the stars, he said, “Jesus, please help me I can’t go on living like this.” He said, after that opportunities opened up for him to get a legitimate job, get off drugs, and change his life for the better and he’s been in a wonderful relationship with Jesus ever since. That doesn’t mean he never sins…but not the depth of his previous sins.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

That's a very common story among us exs, I've noticed. Our details vary, but in the end it so frequently is the failure of others, including and especially god, to stop the torments and bullying that drives people away.
I suppose it may help prime us to better see "the healing hand held back by the deepened nail," helping us to see a "god that failed" (Metallica) and having us walking away.

Yes, it is a very common story among former Christians. I participate in a support group for survivors of childhood abuse, and the majority of the members are ex-Christians who experienced abuse at the hands of their Christian parents and/or other Christian family members or other Christian adults they knew.

 

[InChrist]

Yes, well, as Nietzsche said, "There was only one True Christian, and He died on the cross."

There was only one true sinless Person and that was Christ. Christians are followers of Christ whose lives will never measure up to His; else what need for a Perfect Savior?
Yet, Christians are sanctified by Christ; meaning transformed and changed in a process that takes a lifetime and is complete when one enters eternity.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And I agree with Paul. It’s obvious Christians still sin. But there’s a difference in a born again believers’s attitude toward sin and type of sin. I just met a very happy man last week when dropping off some donation items at Christian thrift store. He started telling me about how ten years prior he’d spent years in and out of jail, doing drugs, selling drugs, living in a meth house, and a bunch of other stuff. One night he told me that while looking out at the stars, he said, “Jesus, please help me I can’t go on living like this.” He said, after that opportunities opened up for him to get a legitimate job, get off drugs, and change his life for the better and he’s been in a wonderful relationship with Jesus ever since. That doesn’t mean he never sins…but not the depth of his previous sins.

That still doesn't disqualify people from being Christian. It does your faith no good, because it's an endless circle of Christians pointing fingers at each other over how they are real Christians but others are fake.
But it's telling in how many Christians expect atheists to own up to the likes of Jospeh Stalin, yet they won't acknowledge how Nazi Germany was very heavily and mostly Christian (Gott mit uns/God is with us).

 

[Heyo]

I'd say that having a religion doesn't necessarily make one a better person on a grand scale, nor does not having one.

However, I feel there are specific cases in which some people, not all, may do better with or without a religion.

I think the specific cases are people who are mentally not fit to understand and think about morality. If you don't know or understand why some action is immoral, it is better if you act ethical because a higher authority says so than having no guidance and act on impulse.
I don't think IQ is the exact measurement but as an example I'd say religion can have positive influence for people with a two digit IQ, while secular morality better fits the rest.

 

[RestlessSoul]

No.

If you need "religion" to make you a better person, you're not a better person - you're just a wicked person on a leash.

Who is holding the end of the leash?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Some people might believe that the religious are supreme to the non-religious while the non-religious might seem themselves as supreme to the religious.

I have two remarks to make.

The fist is to simply report what science has found: that it is those at the two extemes (atheism and devoutly religious) who are the most ethical. It is the people in he middle, the nominally religious, who are the most likely to say, "Well this is normally wrong, but in my unique case it is okay"

The second comment is just that Religion offers the tools to become a more virtuous person. That doesn't mean that every religious person avails themselves of those tools. Nor does it mean that it is impossible to become more virtuous if you are not religious. It simply means that if you are teh sort that chooses to work on your virtue, the easiest way to do this is through whatever religious faith you practice.

 

[sun rise]

It’s not a “ No True Scotsman”, it’s just the spiritual reality according to Jesus…

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. Matthew 7:15

I agree. You are not improperly excluding the counter-example.

It's also true in the East where there are many fake holy men. “There are many hypocritical saints with long matted hair and their bodies besmeared with ashes. Tukaram says: “Let their dead conscience be burnt; it is no sin to thrash them!”

 

[sun rise]

The second comment is just that Religion offers the tools to become a more religious person. That doesn't mean that every religious person avails themselves of those tools. Nor does it mean that it is impossible to become more virtuous if you are not religious. It simply means that if you are teh sort that chooses to work on your virtue, the easiest way to do this is through whatever religious faith you practice.

I would generalize that to include atheists "whatever ethical system you hold dear or whatever religious faith you practice"

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I would generalize that to include atheists "whatever ethical system you hold dear or whatever religious faith you practice"

BTW upon reading your post, i realized I did a typo. I meant to say "become a more VIRTUOUS person."

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I'd say that having a religion doesn't necessarily make one a better person on a grand scale, nor does not having one.

However, I feel there are specific cases in which some people, not all, may do better with or without a religion.

Of course, it depends on the religion…
Can you imagine being an Ammonite, born and raised in the religion of Molech, and then required to sacrifice your first-born, by burning them in fire?

Sick.

How would such a revolting practice ever gain popularity?!

Some heavy influencing, causing extreme fear, must have been involved!

 

[AnthonyGiarrusso]

BTW upon reading your post, i realized I did a typo. I meant to say "become a more VIRTUOUS person."

Don't worry about it. We are all human and we all make mistakes.

 

[Secret Chief]

Thise six billion people mostly aren't out to do harm to others. They'd be just fine even without their religion.

Do they think that?

 

[Secret Chief]

Not 6 billion. The rather large subset of the 2 billion Christians who think that all humans are born depraved, full of sin, and deserving of hell

Fair enough, you just said generally, not a specific sub-set.