Does Karma Exist

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

"Virtue" is defined as showing high moral standards. When words are conveniently redefined or arbitrarily used willy nilly, then communication breaks down.

 

[Thruve]

Respectfully, Thruve, it was a pretty inane example.

yea, I probably could have came up with a better example haha

Rather than me using the term 'intent', i should have wrote motive >.<

 

[sun rise]

yea, I probably could have came up with a better example haha

Rather than me using the term 'intent', i should have wrote motive >.<

Actually I thought it was a good example. But maybe that's just me.

 

[LuisDantas]

Actually I thought it was a good example. But maybe that's just me.

Then tell me, did it present a contrast of intents? Or was it instead a contrast of circunstances and/or of moral spaces? Or something else?

 

[sun rise]

Then tell me, did it present a contrast of intents? Or was it instead a contrast of circunstances and/or of moral spaces? Or something else?

To me it was a contrast of intents.

 

[LuisDantas]

To me it was a contrast of intents.

I am just not seeing it, personally. Do you feel like elaborating on your perspective of that example?

 

[YmirGF]

To me it was a contrast of intents.

It could just be a reading comprehension challenge on your part, however, clearly, the INTENT was to obtain firewood. The reasons for the intent were different. That neither thought to simply ASK for help is the $64,000 point.

If people were allowed to steal based on their need it is unlikely that we would ever have made laws against stealing. It really doesn't matter what your reasons for stealing are - stealing is wrong - and there is no justification for the action.

I did, in fact, laugh out loud when I read that Mother A said a prayer to absolve here of her crime. Thinking doesn't get much more primitive than that.

 

[atanu]

Does karma (reaping the rewards of one's good/bad deeds, not the Dharmic concept) exist? My personal experience says no. What do you guys say?

The world is works, which begins with desire and intention, leading to physical acts. One is born in affluence and another in utter poverty. Someone has great business intelligence and another is a great artist. Some are born as teachers, some as soldiers, and some others for business. The differentiation of the samsara is said to be due to karma.


It is said that the way of karma is inexplicable. How one has arrived at a certain situation thus may not be so easy to decipher. However, from a given situation, how to act dharmically in order to sail as smoothly as possible, is usually the subject of dharmic scripture.

The world is works.. Karma. In samsaric realm, karma binds all individuals who are the doers (who hold the notions of doer-ship). Sages and yogis who are free of notions of doer-ship are free of bondage of karma too.

 

[samosasauce]

I say no, and psychology says no; the human brain is FANTASTIC at making up patters which simply aren't and have never been there

 

[YmirGF]

I say no, and psychology says no; the human brain is FANTASTIC at making up patters which simply aren't and have never been there

Just so, grasshopper. I'm reminded of that wonderful movie A Beautiful Mind where the fellow had an unhealthy appetite for finding patterns in anything. It nearly drove him mad.

 

[YmirGF]

The world is works, which begins with desire and intention, leading to physical acts. One is born in affluence and another in utter poverty. Someone has great business intelligence and another is a great artist. Some are born as teachers, some as soldiers, and some others for business. The differentiation of the samsara is said to be due to karma.

Ok, not terribly helpful, but at least there is a pattern. Fair enough, so far.

It is said that the way of karma is inexplicable. How one has arrived at a certain situation thus may not be so easy to decipher. However, from a given situation, how to act dharmically in order to sail as smoothly as possible, is usually the subject of dharmic scripture.

And yet "the differentiation of the samsara is said to be due to karma" in a way that is inexplicable - which makes the idea moot. And finally, the marketing brochures claim to not worry, just follow these ways and it will help you to smoothly navigate through this inexplicable thing that led you to your current situation. "We cannot explain how or why you got into your present situation, but if you do this, this and this, it will alleviate the condition."

Isn't it odd that the condition cannot be explained and yet there is a solution for the condition? Perhaps I'm missing something.

The world is works.. Karma. In samsaric realm, karma binds all individuals who are the doers (who hold the notions of doer-ship). Sages and yogis who are free of notions of doer-ship are free of bondage of karma too.

Of course they are. :flirt: That said, I'm a bit alarmed by the thought that life is a fancy bondage system, until you reject everything that ever meant anything to you, including identity. Spiffy.

 

[factseeker88]

Does karma (reaping the rewards of one's good/bad deeds, not the Dharmic concept) exist? My personal experience says no. What do you guys say?

It doesn't matter what we believe, karma, or whatever, it has nothing to do with our actual life. We can only respond to situations we are familiar with. Your post, for example. caused my response.

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]"Our belief or disbelief of a thing does not alter the nature of things” Tillotson[/FONT]


“[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]This moment is your life.” Omar Khayyam [/FONT]

 

[Thruve]

Then tell me, did it present a contrast of intents? Or was it instead a contrast of circunstances and/or of moral spaces? Or something else?

Let me clarify that again, It was supposed to present a contrast in motives (or in other words the reason for stealing), so my apologies. I threw "Motive/intent" in there and probably shouldn't have. Im used to using terms from a more criminal dictionary >.>

 

[atanu]

Isn't it odd that the condition cannot be explained and yet there is a solution for the condition? Perhaps I'm missing something.

Its odd that you are impelled to react in every karma thread. Inexplicable .. No?

The karma prescription for you may be "avoid keyword 'karma'. :yes:

Of course they are. :flirt: That said, I'm a bit alarmed by the thought that life is a fancy bondage system, until you reject everything that ever meant anything to you, including identity. Spiffy.

Again, it is odd. Why should you be alarmed?

 

[YmirGF]

Let me clarify that again, It was supposed to present a contrast in motives (or in other words the reason for stealing), so my apologies. I threw "Motive/intent" in there and probably shouldn't have. Im used to using terms from a more criminal dictionary >.>

And I understood you meant it that way. The point is there is NEVER any justification for stealing. Pretending there is is not helpful.

 

[YmirGF]

Its odd that you are impelled to react in every karma thread. Inexplicable .. No?

The karma prescription for you may be "avoid keyword 'karma'. :yes:

Hahahaha. Naw, I'm just weak. I feel compelled to combat ignorance. It's my failing...

Again, it is odd. Why should you be alarmed?

Because it is such an incredibly negative view of physical reality.

 

[LuisDantas]

Let me clarify that again, It was supposed to present a contrast in motives (or in other words the reason for stealing), so my apologies. I threw "Motive/intent" in there and probably shouldn't have. Im used to using terms from a more criminal dictionary >.>

But there is no such contrast, at least that I can see.

 

[Thruve]

And I understood you meant it that way. The point is there is NEVER any justification for stealing. Pretending there is is not helpful.

I beg to differ good sir. By no means (in my opinion) can you or I justify whether stealing in a particular situation is right or wrong.. Accountable? Should they be accountable for their actions and pay the price accordingly? Of course! We are all obligated to follow the law of the land! But what Im saying is that motive (reason for stealing) should be considered in reference to karma ^^ Ones motive for doing something does indeed effect others around them and the environment differently, so I would have to also say that everything is relative, and that though ones justification for doing something may seem good to them (including deeds), it may also seem like a bad one to someone else. Clearly motive effects different people differently but it should still be taken into consideration whether their motive is good for doing a bad deed, or bad for doing a good deed.

Unless your argument is that either way, despite the motive, the church is now out of firewood, Its all about THE MOTIVE!! tehe

 

[YmirGF]

I beg to differ good sir. By no means (in my opinion) can you or I justify whether stealing in a particular situation is right or wrong.

Um, ok, have it your way. I wouldn't want to live in a society that supported this viewpoint.

Accountable? Should they be accountable for their actions and pay the price accordingly? Of course!

Well, we agree on something, at least. Things are looking up.

But what Im saying is that motive (reason for stealing) should be considered in reference to karma ^^

Why though? Should we erase our laws and leave everything up to so-called karma? Seriously, if karma is a valid force why on earth would we need to hold anyone accountable for anything?

Ones motive for doing something does indeed effect others around them and the environment differently.

There is an old saying, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." Of course motive matters, but motives do not necessarily erase actions. For example, when dealing with small children, they will often have the best intentions but their actions will often have quite unexpected (to them) consequences. Of course, we will look at a child and say, "Ok, Rita, that wasn't the best way to go about that but your heart was in the right place." That said, Rita still gets a punishment of some kind to reinforce the error in her execution/actions. We are not punishing her motive.


Even in the case of Mother A. If she had asked the people at the church for some wood, she probably would have been given some. If no one was around to ask, she could have left a note explaining her need and promising to make restitution would have gone a lot further than her lame little prayer. I hope this makes some semblance of sense.

 

[Willamena]

Because it is such an incredibly negative view of physical reality.

It doesn't have to be.