Does Satan Exist?

[ChristineES]

I say "There is no proof in the "old Testements" that Satan is a Fallen Angel." yet no one responds to this

I will respond. I am beginning to believe that Satan isn't a fallen Angel, I've had that idea for quite a while now- Ever since I realized that Lucifer and Satan were not even the same. It does seem to be what Ben says-- A concept. So when the NT says that "Satan entered into Judas" meant that he gave into his temptation for money (the silver pieces). He definitely felt guilty for it later, as we know.

 

[herushura]

I will respond. I am beginning to believe that Satan isn't a fallen Angel, I've had that idea for quite a while now- Ever since I realized that Lucifer and Satan were not even the same. It does seem to be what Ben says-- A concept. So when the NT says that "Satan entered into Judas" meant that he gave into his temptation for money (the silver pieces). He definitely felt guilty for it later, as we know.

I Can provide Additional information that backs the statement.


In Genesis when Eve was tempted by Serpant.

Serpant in Hebrew is Nahash, Nahash mean "The one who finds Out" or "WISDOM"
[SIZE=-1]Wisdom means to accumulated knowledge or erudition or enlightenment[/SIZE]

"Enlightenment Entered into Judas" or "Knowledge Entered Judas"

The Enlightment Judas recieved was "Guilt"

 

[mohe3439]

I said maybe because it all depends on your belief or lack of, if you are a Chrisitan than to you Satan does exhist, but other religions have things similar to Satan so if you believe those than yes, he does, but if you're an Athiest than to you he doesn't.

 

[herushura]

So Eve was not Tempted by a Serpant she was tempted By Herself

 

[Ben Masada]

So Eve was not Tempted by a Serpant she was tempted By Herself

+++++++++++++++++++

She was tempted by God Himself. She was being even too sluggish to do what God
meant for her to do. Anyway, the whole account is an allegory.

Ben

 

[herushura]

+++++++++++++++++++

She was tempted by God Himself. She was being even too sluggish to do what God
meant for her to do. Anyway, the whole account is an allegory.

Ben

same Contexts in the meaning of "nahash"

 

[Ben Masada]

I Can provide Additional information that backs the statement.


In Genesis when Eve was tempted by Serpant.

Serpant in Hebrew is Nahash, Nahash mean "The one who finds Out" or "WISDOM"
[SIZE=-1]Wisdom means to accumulated knowledge or erudition or enlightenment[/SIZE]

"Enlightenment Entered into Judas" or "Knowledge Entered Judas"

The Enlightment Judas recieved was "Guilt"

+++++++++++++++++++

Nahash means emanation or inspiration or influence. :clap

 

[herushura]

+++++++++++++++++++

Nahash means emanation or inspiration or influence. :clap

Yes "Wisdom",

 

[ChristineES]

Maybe it would be a good idea to learn some of these words. It is obvious that most of them can have more than one meaning.

 

[herushura]

The word 'Satan', and the Arabic شيطان "shaitan", may derive from a Northwest Semitic root śṭn, meaning "to be hostile", "to accuse.


From WIKI about Satan.


Satan = To be Hostile

Definition of Hostile[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]openly opposed or resisting.

Definition of Accuser
[SIZE=-1]someone who imputes guilt or blame [/SIZE]

The Definition of Accuser even backs the Statment "Satan entered into Judas" meant that he gave into his temptation for money (the silver pieces). He definitely felt guilty for it later, as we know

Guilt had entered Judas which goes back tom the definition of nahash and WISDOM

 

[Heneni]

You really don't understand what I'm getting at at all do you?

And by the way...all mythologies have a common theme. I just tried illustrating that for you. The archetypes are the same throughout. It's the battle of mankind. The life lessons. The flow of life and death for both nature and man.

If you are somehow trying to refer to the 3 Abrahamic religions...they weren't exactly concocted seperately you know. They indeed worked off each other, even used common scriptures. So of course they would have commonalities. That's a no-brainer.

Ahhh... I thought there for a moment you were getting what I was trying to say...


There are many civilizations who had SERIOUSLY little contact with each other and the 'outside' world and who have come up with their own flavour of 'satan' all by themselves. And that is what you are trying to say.....and im saying...its all a bit to coincidental that they all have a common theme.

 

[Heneni]

The word 'Satan', and the Arabic شيطان "shaitan", may derive from a Northwest Semitic root śṭn, meaning "to be hostile", "to accuse.


From WIKI about Satan.


Satan = To be Hostile

Definition of Hostile
openly opposed or resisting.

Definition of Accuser
[SIZE=-1]someone who imputes guilt or blame [/SIZE]

The Definition of Accuser even backs the Statment "Satan entered into Judas" meant that he gave into his temptation for money (the silver pieces). He definitely felt guilty for it later, as we know

Guilt had entered Judas which goes back tom the definition of nahash and WISDOM

And you are saying that resisting and imputing guilt and blame = wisdom.

Since you believe that satan is wisdom, why does the OT commonly refer to wisdom as a SHE?

 

[Ben Masada]

I will respond. I am beginning to believe that Satan isn't a fallen Angel, I've had that idea for quite a while now- Ever since I realized that Lucifer and Satan were not even the same. It does seem to be what Ben says-- A concept. So when the NT says that "Satan entered into Judas" meant that he gave into his temptation for money (the silver pieces). He definitely felt guilty for it later, as we know.

++++++++++++++++++

I am of the opinion that the allegory of Satan in Judas gives off two interpretations
and that the temptation for money is not one of them. Those silver pieces were only
an act of plagiarism by the gospel writers from the episode of the selling of Joseph
by his brothers. The two facets of the allegory was one in Judas and the other in the writer's mind. Money is ruled out because according to the apocryphal gospel of Judas, this was a well-to-do man and he had no need to sell his master for 30 pieces of silver.

Okay, one of the facets of the temptation was in Judas who hoped that by doing so, he would force the issue of an insurrection against the Romans by having the people rise in defense of Jesus. It didn't happen. The other facet was in the mind of the gospel writer who needed to apply one more prophecy from the Tanach unto Jesus: The 30 pieces of silver from the selling of Joseph by his brothers. Literally, there is
no place here for Satan as a being or entity.

Ben

 

[Draka]

Ahhh... I thought there for a moment you were getting what I was trying to say...


There are many civilizations who had SERIOUSLY little contact with each other and the 'outside' world and who have come up with their own flavour of 'satan' all by themselves. And that is what you are trying to say.....and im saying...its all a bit to coincidental that they all have a common theme.

It's not coincidental. But it's not for the reason you would like it to be. You seriously have no clue as to what I am referencing when I speak of archetypes and Joseph Campbell and the "hero" myth do you? You cannot have a hero without an adversary or "opposite" for s/he to overcome. Some play the opposites as night/day, some play male/female, some use light and dark...and some...some use good/evil. It doesn't mean there is actually a big bad evil entity out there at all. It means that some cultures derive their human struggle as a struggle between the good and evil in them and they came up with their mythological characters to reflect that.

 

[Heneni]

It's not coincidental. But it's not for the reason you would like it to be. You seriously have no clue as to what I am referencing when I speak of archetypes and Joseph Campbell and the "hero" myth do you? You cannot have a hero without an adversary or "opposite" for s/he to overcome. Some play the opposites as night/day, some play male/female, some use light and dark...and some...some use good/evil. It doesn't mean there is actually a big bad evil entity out there at all. It means that some cultures derive their human struggle as a struggle between the good and evil in them and they came up with their mythological characters to reflect that.

But draka, some of these civilizations offered stuff to their gods to appease them. They did not offer these things to themselves. And they did not think they were offering these things to a myth either. Im afraid you are not cutting some of the most brilliant civilizations a bit of slack. Man , if left alone, would far rather worship themselves, not something they have come up with. And they would rather make themselves into gods than come up with some fantasy god, which requires them to give up their A grade fruit and vegetables and not to speak about giving up their children and sacrificing their father, mother, brother , daughter to it.

Many of these civilizations didnt have a 'god' that would come and resque them from their enemies, and act as their hero. Rather they knew there was something out there, that if they did not do something to make it happy, they would have a sorded and terribly misserable existance.

I guess you and i will never see eye to eye about this issue will we? Satan is real as real as can be.

 

[Draka]

But draka, some of these civilizations offered stuff to their gods to appease them. They did not offer these things to themselves. And they did not think they were offering these things to a myth either. Im afraid you are not cutting some of the most brilliant civilizations a bit of slack. Man , if left alone, would far rather worship themselves, not something they have come up with. And they would rather make themselves into gods than come up with some fantasy god, which requires them to give up their A grade fruit and vegetables and not to speak about giving up their children and sacrificing their father, mother, brother , daughter to it.

Many of these civilizations didnt have a 'god' that would come and resque them from their enemies, and act as their hero. Rather they knew there was something out there, that if they did not do something to make it happy, they would have a sorded and terribly misserable existance.

I guess you and i will never see eye to eye about this issue will we? Satan is real as real as can be.

No, you and I will never see eye to eye as you are so grossly misinformed with no will to become informed that carrying on an intellectual conversation with you gets about as far as playing chess with a rock. You simply don't get it and obviously have no desire to try.

 

[blackout]

But draka, some of these civilizations offered stuff to their gods to appease them. They did not offer these things to themselves. And they did not think they were offering these things to a myth either. Im afraid you are not cutting some of the most brilliant civilizations a bit of slack. Man , if left alone, would far rather worship themselves, not something they have come up with. And they would rather make themselves into gods than come up with some fantasy god, which requires them to give up their A grade fruit and vegetables and not to speak about giving up their children and sacrificing their father, mother, brother , daughter to it.

Many of these civilizations didnt have a 'god' that would come and resque them from their enemies, and act as their hero. Rather they knew there was something out there, that if they did not do something to make it happy, they would have a sorded and terribly misserable existance.

I guess you and i will never see eye to eye about this issue will we? Satan is real as real as can be.

This is called superstition run amuck.

People are quite naturally superstitious creatures.
Only those who live AWARE of superstitions lure
and actively reject it,
are able to live superstition free.

The more blatently superstitious a culture is,
the harder it is for individuals there
to rise above the superstition curse.

 

[Heneni]

No, you and I will never see eye to eye as you are so grossly misinformed with no will to become informed that carrying on an intellectual conversation with you gets about as far as playing chess with a rock. You simply don't get it and obviously have no desire to try.

I'm sorry that you feel you have to compare yourself to others all the time, and that you question your intelligence and feel like no one pays attention to you.

As for me...i have a great desire to learn, but is there something that you can be informed about that i could possibly be interested in? Even if you were the world expert on the subject, you are too much of a loose cannon to have any conversation with. Like a donkey on the edge. Sorry:sad:

 

[Draka]

I'm sorry that you feel you have to compare yourself to others all the time, and that you question your intelligence and feel like no one pays attention to you.

As for me...i have a great desire to learn, but is there something that you can be informed about that i could possibly be interested in? Even if you were the world expert on the subject, you are too much of a loose cannon to have any conversation with. Like a donkey on the edge. Sorry:sad:

I'm a loose cannon? I've patiently tried to explain this stuff to you over and over and no matter how I, or anyone else for that matter, try and break it down for you, you are simply too engrossed in your own beliefs to open your mind and learn anything factual. I don't question my intelligence at all. People pay attention to me fine. It's not my fault, however, if someone has their religious blinders on too tightly to see what I place right in front of their face. The fault lays not with me, but them.

 

[raffyv]

@joeboonda

where in the Bible does it say that the devil does not exist??

If you would actually read your Bible, you would see that there is at least one very literal manifestation of the devil.. not as a serpent, not as a dragon, but as a conscious and talking entity that tempts Christ into "evil" during his fasting period after he was baptized by John the Baptist.

What is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible is the name Satan as the proper name for the devil. The word satan, I've read somewhere, literally means "enemy".

***Bible verses that mention Satan did not use the word as his name but rather as a description of him as "the enemy".
***this is not confirmed.. just something I remember having read somewhere.. "the word satan meaning enemy" however, is confirmed..