No doubt!
I think the most damaging thing about the whole "war between good and evil" concept is that it forces people to view reality with one eye closed.
Someone who only accepts half of reality as God's will is only half alive.
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Does Satan Exist?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
No doubt!
I think the most damaging thing about the whole "war between good and evil" concept is that it forces people to view reality with one eye closed.
Someone who only accepts half of reality as God's will is only half alive.
Mercy Not Sacrifice
Well-Known Member
Who are the "fishers"? Who are "them"? How do you know that this verse specifically predicted the Holocaust?
That's a situation that has to occur only once in order to make it true. The odds of such an event increase across time and reach 1 as time goes to infinity.
See above. And how can you prove that God ultimately caused all of this, and human elements had a negligible effect by comparison?
spiritually inclined
Active Member
I have no reason to believe in Satan, so I voted "no". I don't even think of him as a metaphor. Humans do bad things for various reasons. They don't need Satan.
James
James
Ðanisty;862496 said:
Right you are Danisty.
From Wiki.;
Satan, from the Hebrew word for "adversary" (Standard Hebrew: שָׂטָן, Satan; Tiberian Hebrew Śāṭān; Koine Greek: Σατανάς, Persian: اهریمن, Satanás; Aramaic: סטנא, Saṭänä; Arabic: شيطان, Šayṭān, Ge'ez: ሳይጣን Sāyṭān, Turkish: Şeytan), is a term that originates from the Abrahamic faiths, being traditionally applied to an angel. Ha-Satan is the accuser, a member of the divine council, who challenged the religious faith of humans, especially in the books of Job and Zechariah. Religious belief systems other than Judaism relate this term to a demon, a rebellious fallen angel, devil, minor god and idolatry, or as an allegory for evil.
(allthough I've also heard Satan translated as accuser)
In the Tanach/Old Testament Satan is portrayed as a member of God's court, sort of a prosecuting attourney.
to be an adversary means to work against someone , and that is just what satan does , he works against God and against Gods puropse for the earth. so any one who is on Gods side , will get agro from Satan ,because they are on Gods side and satan does not like it when people are on Gods side, and satan also knows that he has only got a short period of time left befor he is put away for a 1000 years, and then Gods heavenly kingdom goverment can rule with out any influence of satan around Daniel 2;44 the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one (satan the devil) at the momment , ( 1 john 5;19 ) but not for much longer because when the wicked one satan is not around ,great things will be accomplished . those who uphold God and his purpose for the earth , are at the momment satans target, and he will do everything in his power to stop people being on Gods side. but no worries Gods people are upholding interity to God ,and then Jehovah God can make a reply to Satan proverbs 27;11Ðanisty;862496 said:
Be wise, my son, and make my(Jehovahs) heart rejoice, that I (Jehovah)may make a reply to him (satan)that is taunting me....................... satan taunts God , but when we do what is right in Gods eyes it is a slap in the face to satan.
i would say that before he became satan he was working for God ,but when he became rebellious he was not.Ðanisty;863376 said:
To achieve his end Satan was now willing to become a slanderer, a deceiver, an opposer of Jehovah and a devourer, as identified by the names Devil, Serpent, Satan and Dragon. Using all the subtleness of his exalted position and communicating his message through the visible serpent, he assured the first woman that by following his suggestion she would have something far greater than what an untrustworthy God had given her. .................... becoming rebellious is never a good thing to do it will only end in destruction.
Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them.
Then Jehovah said to Satan: "Where do you come from?" At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: "From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it.JOB 1 6-7...Jehovah didnt need to ask all the other ones where they had been because they were right their doing the right things, but this rebel was off doing his own things . but rebelliousness does not lead to blessings from the most high Jehovah it leads to satans being cast out of the heavens , along with those who listen to him . revelation 12;7-10And war broke out in heaven: Mi´cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. ............ oh dear , no longer is satan allowed back into the heavens , out he goes ,it is good that the heavens have been cleaned up and there is nolonger any more rebels up there, but soon this rebel and his followers will be out the way on the earth also.
JayHawes
Active Member
1) One must first ask what is a fisher and what does he or she do? A fisher sets out with the goal of cathing something. He searches and baits a hook. Once the fish is caught, it is killed (it suffocates). One must only realise that the Holocaust is an example of this, The Nazi's saught out the Jews (and others) and had many of them killed.
2) God said that he would bring them from the heathan nations more than 3,000 years before it came true, even before they were even driven out of their land. It even said they would be brought down from the lands of the North ( Europe and Russia). Thus, only God could prophesy of such 3,000 years in advance. I need not proove God cuased anything, if you're going to make excuses, you will continue no matter what "proof" i may give.
JayHawes
Active Member
No one needs satan. However he needs you, how else would he take mankind to hell with him?
RobGelber
RobGelber
Well, this is an old post, but I figure it's still worth chiming in on.
First, the more fundamental question. How do we know whether Satan exists? People here have taken two or three approaches to the question.
Approach #1: Satan exists because the Bible says Satan exists. This is proof enough for those who believe the Bible is the Word of God and therefore paints an accurate picture of the realities which are otherwise beyond human perception. In my opinion Joeboonda and Sonic have been the foremost representatives of this view. For various reasons, I don't believe the Bible gives us this kind of access to behind-the-scenes kind of knowledge so this line of reasoning doesn't work for me. (And I've also answered the first question that most Christians are going to have for me: do you believe the Bible is the Word of God? No I don't.)
Approach #2: Satan exists because there is evil in the world. This approach hasn't been quite as developed as approach #1, but it's still come up. The reason I don't buy into this one is because bad things happen for many different reasons. It's true that when things don't work out well even when people have the best of intentions, but this can also simply point to the finiteness of humans and does not necessarily point to someone conspiring against us. (Some Christians will assume the existence of Satan and then claim that Satan covers up the evidence of his own existence. This way, lack of empirical evidence for Satan = evidence for Satan. This follows the pattern of most conspiracy theories and for that reason, I don't buy it. Lack of evidence for Satan does not show Satan's existence.)
Approach #3: Some people believe Satan exists because they think they hear Satan in their heads. In this case, believe that people are often attributing to Satan their own ideas. The theater of the mind can set up a number of different scenarios and when you've heard stories of Satan tempting people directly, it's easy to imagine it happening to you.
There may be "demon" possessions at times but these can be understood in many ways besides the Satan that Christianity describes taking possession of people.
In any case, there's my view. I thought I'd share. Thank you all for your thoughts.
First, the more fundamental question. How do we know whether Satan exists? People here have taken two or three approaches to the question.
Approach #1: Satan exists because the Bible says Satan exists. This is proof enough for those who believe the Bible is the Word of God and therefore paints an accurate picture of the realities which are otherwise beyond human perception. In my opinion Joeboonda and Sonic have been the foremost representatives of this view. For various reasons, I don't believe the Bible gives us this kind of access to behind-the-scenes kind of knowledge so this line of reasoning doesn't work for me. (And I've also answered the first question that most Christians are going to have for me: do you believe the Bible is the Word of God? No I don't.)
Approach #2: Satan exists because there is evil in the world. This approach hasn't been quite as developed as approach #1, but it's still come up. The reason I don't buy into this one is because bad things happen for many different reasons. It's true that when things don't work out well even when people have the best of intentions, but this can also simply point to the finiteness of humans and does not necessarily point to someone conspiring against us. (Some Christians will assume the existence of Satan and then claim that Satan covers up the evidence of his own existence. This way, lack of empirical evidence for Satan = evidence for Satan. This follows the pattern of most conspiracy theories and for that reason, I don't buy it. Lack of evidence for Satan does not show Satan's existence.)
Approach #3: Some people believe Satan exists because they think they hear Satan in their heads. In this case, believe that people are often attributing to Satan their own ideas. The theater of the mind can set up a number of different scenarios and when you've heard stories of Satan tempting people directly, it's easy to imagine it happening to you.
There may be "demon" possessions at times but these can be understood in many ways besides the Satan that Christianity describes taking possession of people.
In any case, there's my view. I thought I'd share. Thank you all for your thoughts.
blackout
Violet.
If evil really exists what better way to win victory over an opponent is if you make someone believe that it doesn't exist.........Really a good trick isn't it?heh heh very sneaky............
Evil can't exist without some character named "Satan"?
Kcnorwood
Well-Known Member
No he is an image that someone came up with because Christians needed God to have an enemy & someone he could save us from.
What I find interesting is that in the OT Satan did what God told him to. IN the NT, he is Gods mortal enemy. Platonic philosopher Celsus wrote in 180 C.E., he believed that Christians showed their ignorance by making up a being opposed to God & calling him the devil, or Satan. It is blasphemy to say that the greatest God has an adversary, who constrains his capacity to do good.
He accuses Christian of inventing a heavenly in order to justify an earthly rebellion.
I agree ..
What I find interesting is that in the OT Satan did what God told him to. IN the NT, he is Gods mortal enemy. Platonic philosopher Celsus wrote in 180 C.E., he believed that Christians showed their ignorance by making up a being opposed to God & calling him the devil, or Satan. It is blasphemy to say that the greatest God has an adversary, who constrains his capacity to do good.
He accuses Christian of inventing a heavenly in order to justify an earthly rebellion.
I agree ..
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Satan is used by Christian leaders to make the faithful behave themselves, a naughty and sinful bunch they are. Its like candy, it makes your children behave because they know they have to behave to be rewarded.
