Does the Bible mention Islam?

[Dawnofhope]

Then you have no faith in Christ.

Why do you say that?

Jesus said:
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
John 10:16

Furthermore the prophet Isaiah spoke of a future peaceful, united world.

The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Isaiah 11:6-10

 

[Dawnofhope]

But in all three synoptics, we have I AM and then an immediate condemnation.

You will need to provide biblical citations to back up your statements. The clear text of Matthew 26:63-65 has clearly shown you are incorrect and going round in circles.

Also, Jesus prior explained that all Israel is called "Sons of God" in Tanakh, eliminating that possibility.

Once again you need citations or references to back up statements like this.

To the contrary, Jesus uses the designation 'Son of God' on multiple occasions throughout all Gospels in regards to His own self, not the nation of Israel. The key verse is;

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

This is important to emphasise Jesus' Uniqueness and Greatness in contrast with the quote we are all sons of God.

The phrase Sons of God and Children of God are used many times through both the Old and New Testaments.

Sons of God: Genesis 6:2, Genesis 6:4, Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7, Matthew 5:9, Luke 20:36, Romans 8:14, Romans 8:19, Galatians 3:26

Children of God: John 1:12, John 11:52, Romans 8:16, Romans 8:16, Romans 8:21, Romans 9:8

The significance of John 3:16 in contrast to these other verses along with the story of the virgin birth clearly sets Jesus apart from ordinary men. So the 'Son of God' designation highlights the Uniqueness and Greatness of Jesus when compared to the rest of humanity.

Also, Jesus says I AM... will come on the clouds of Heaven, a direct allusion to Daniel's end times prophecy of Messiah, in which the gospels and in Daniel, Jesus says, "... at the right hand [power] of Father God."

Not according to the King James translation it doesn't.

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:30

 

[PruePhillip]

Why do you say that?

Jesus said:
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
John 10:16

Yes, one fold, one shepherd.
Not many folds, many shepherds.
Let alone, shepherds who through violence, blasphemy, corruption
of the bible, conquest and self seeking create their own folds. As Islam
did.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes, one fold, one shepherd.
Not many folds, many shepherds.
Let alone, shepherds who through violence, blasphemy, corruption
of the bible, conquest and self seeking create their own folds. As Islam
did.

Can Christianity claim unity and to be one Shepherd, one fold? Are they not splintered into thousands of sects? How about the violence within Christianity as it dealt with corruption within its own ranks from the earliest day? Have Christian leaders not been self serving as they sought conquest after conquest? So amidst the irreconcilable divisions which division is the true Christianity free of corruption? How can there ever be the one one shepherd, one fold as Christ foretold?

 

[CG Didymus]

Christianity suffers from Islam the same thing that Judaism suffers from Christianity. In a word: retrofitting. Christianity opened the doors, with their un-contextual interpretations designed to lend credence to their religion. Later, Islam took a page out of their book. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Baha'i are doing it to Islam.

So the answer is no. No, Islam is not found in the Tanach of the NT. No Christianity is not found in the Tanach.

Then there is retrofitting the retrofitting. Christianity found the Suffering Servant, that the Messiah would be in the bowels of the Earth for three days, that Herod would kill all the male babies in Bethlehem, that a virgin would give birth to a Savior, that Satan was there in the Garden, that Satan was originally Lucifer the Archangel. And it all came down to Christianity needing to explain why the Law wasn't needed anymore. Which was that the Law was never meant to "save" anyone. Only the perfect sacrifice of God's only Son could pay the price for sin. But, he didn't stay dead. His body wouldn't see decay, but he would be raised up.

All that and more from the Bible makes so much sense... to Christians. Everything is in there, with a little reinterpretation, with a little cherry-picking of verses. So, essentially, Jesus becomes God, Satan is a fallen angel and will be cast into hell with along with all those that don't believe in Jesus. They will all face the final judgement when Jesus returns.

But now the retrofit of the retrofit. The Baha'is say that Jesus is not the one coming back. No, he is not God. No, there is no hell nor a Satan. No, there is no "original sin" nor "fall of man" that needed some special sacrifice to get people right with God.

So to be right with God, all people have to do is recognize that Baha'u'llah is the Jewish Messiah, the Return of the Christ Spirit, along with the return of everyone ever promised in any of the other major religions. And those religions are all true and from the one and same true God. But, to make that work, every religion needs to get an "adjustment" in how they interpret their own Scriptures. All of them have gotten it wrong and have gotten off track.

But, Baha'u'llah came to fix that. Baha'is are here to unite the world as one. There is only one true religion, the religion of God. There is only one race, the human race. All the former religions were true and a progression leading us to today. Now humanity is ready to accept all of these things and become one in peace and harmony. All you have to do is retrofit your religion to what the Baha'is say is the truth about your religion.

Some Baha'is are quick to point out that the Baha'is don't care or necessarily want others to convert. People can stay with their old beliefs. But, if the Baha'is are the only ones that are right, that all the other religions have misinterpreted their own Scriptures, why would Baha'is let those misconceptions and false beliefs continue? Religions still wouldn't be one. People would still think that they are the ones with the truth and that all the others are wrong. And that would lead to peace and harmony? I'm not so sure about that.

 

[PruePhillip]

Can Christianity claim unity and to be one Shepherd, one fold? Are they not splintered into thousands of sects? How about the violence within Christianity as it dealt with corruption within its own ranks from the earliest day? Have Christian leaders not been self serving as they sought conquest after conquest? So amidst the irreconcilable divisions which division is the true Christianity free of corruption? How can there ever be the one one shepherd, one fold as Christ foretold?

You are right, and wrong.
Yes, many sects. But these sects are VARIANTS of Christianity when there should be NO variant.
Jesus was not Catholic, or even Protestant, let alone a Mormon or Jim Jones' People's Temple.
In the eyes of Christ are those who live as He lived. I don't mean ride donkeys, I mean as in his Sermon
on the Mount, His Ministry, His church etc.. What came in the centuries afterwards is quite frightening.

 

[CG Didymus]

I personally think there was a big error when that made a doctrine called the Trinity.

The error is spurred on by the fact that some men like to have a monopoly on the Truth. They would reject that it is possible for people to see a Bible verse in a different light from someone else!

Then the error multiplies when people are forced to beleive the doctrine and not have an opinion. We come to this day when it is part of scripture, meaning added that the Bible warns against.

Regards Tony

So the Baha'is had Abdu'l Baha, then Shoghi Effendi, then the UHofJ… all keeping the teachings of Baha'u'llah from getting misinterpreted. Christianity had the original apostles, then Paul, and the early Church leaders, then the New Testament. The Baha'is believe they have the real truth. And who else? Christianity thought it had the truth and nobody else. You guys go against those that break away with their own version of the Baha'i teachings, and so do Christians.

Now on the Trinity. Is Jesus one with God? Is Jesus filled with God's Holy Spirit? Did Jesus forgive people of their sins, something that only God has the authority to do? Did Jesus walk on water and raise from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God the Father? If that's all you knew of truth, back 2000 years ago, would you have voted "yes" or "no" on making Jesus God?

 

[CG Didymus]

It is not "your Bible." Nobody owns the Bible...
The Bible does not speak for itself...
All books require interpretation in order to be understood...
It is highly arrogant for people to say that they alone KNOW what the Bible means above all others.
Only God knows what the Bible was intended to mean.... Obviously Christians do not know and because they disagree on what it means we know that some of them have to be wrong, logically speaking, since Truth cannot be contradictory.

But... Christians wrote the NT. And those writers thought they had verses from the Jewish Bible that confirms their beliefs. Peter, Paul and the gospel writers tried to make it plain what the true teachings were. Christianity is not terribly complicated. Especially for people 2000 years ago... believe in Jesus, get dunked in water and live a good life.

Oh, and don't worry about following the Law. That's "old covenant". And, of course, don't follow those Christians that added in traditions and have statues and priests and have confess your sins to them. We don't like them. And, also, watch out for the ones that come knocking on your door. They have misinterpreted the Bible and are trying to trick you. And, watch out for those "Holy Rollers". They jump around speak gibberish and prophecy and fall on the ground squirming like a fish and say it is the "gifts" of the Spirit. And, pretty much, don't trust anybody that is spreading a "false" gospel, like those that say Jesus has returned. If you only listen to us, and of course the Holy Spirit, you'll be all right. So, no, there is no contradictions. Our Church is right and all the others are wrong.

Unfortunately, Christianity has mangled a simple message. But, part of that simple message, that you'd think doesn't need interpretation, includes that Jesus rose from the dead and that whole thing about the devil and hell. If that stuff ain't right, then Christians had misinformation from the start.

 

[Trailblazer]

No, that is not the answer. Jews have been moving to Israel in waves since well before 1844. 1882 marks the beginning of the Zionist waves of immigration. Before then, there were smaller waves of people moving here for religious reasons (and sometimes to avoid persecution - I vaguely recall reading that some people ended up in Israel after the Spanish Expulsion).

Please see the link below.
Before the First Zionist Aliyot (1799-1882)

Thanks for sharing that timeline. I found it interesting to note that there was a widespread Messianic prediction in 1840 and that the Jews return to Zion was supported in 1844. From that website...

1840 A widespread Messianic prediction sparks a renewed interest in immigration to EretzYisrael (KolHator). This prediction is circulated in the Balkans and in Eastern Europe. (Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 16, pp. 1034; Morgenstern, Arie. “Dispersion and Longing for Zion, 1240-1840”. Azure.)

1840 Rabbi Yehuda Alkalai (1798-1878) begins spreading his belief that this is the time of the Messiah. He believes that settling the land of Israel will hasten the coming of the Redemption. (Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 16, pp. 1034)

1843 Rabbi Yehuda Alkalai publishes Minchat Yehuda (Yehuda’s Offering). In the book he elaborates on the need for human initiatives, which will hurry the coming of the Redemption.

1844 The Christadelphians, a Christian Zionist group, is founded in England. It supports the Jews’ return to Zion. The group supports the Hibbat Zion movement, which assists the Jews in their efforts to resettle the Holy Land. (Encyclopedia Judaica, vol. 16, pp. 1153)​

Baha’is believe that the proclamation of the Bab in 1844 signalized the beginning of the Messianic era.

So what happened after 1844 that dissipated the Messianic hopes of the Jews?

 

[Trailblazer]

You are asking, why Jews believe what the Torah says is true? I don't see how that question fits the context of the discussion here.

Again, because the basis of our belief is not on the prophet having heard the Voice of G-d, but on the national revelation at Mt. Sinai. Because we all, as a nation heard G-d speaking along with Moses, we came to know that Moses was a true prophet of G-d. Before that, there was no empirical proof of his prophet-hood. Had Moses simply come to a group of Jews and claimed to have heard G-d speaking to him, we would not be required to obey him. That claim is not falsifiable. However, once Moses brought the nation to Mt. Sinai and everyone experienced Divine Revelation with Moses, that publicly established his prophet-hood. We did not have to take his word on his say-so, we saw for ourselves that he was indeed on speaking terms with G-d.

If you are asking why following generations would believe Moses as a basis for trusting other prophets, it's because they received the narrative of the national revelation as a tradition from their parents. Ie., "my father told me that his father stood at Mt. Sinai and heard G-d speaking for himself. Here is the Book that he was given during that time-period".

Sorry I got a bit off track from the subject of the thread but I am very interested in why different religions believe what they do, especially regarding verification of their Prophets actually speaking for God. I also look at beliefs from a psychological viewpoint since psychology is my educational background.

I understand what you are saying now, and why the national revelation at Mt. Sinai is significant and more meaningful than Moses just claiming to be a Prophet, but since you never experienced God for yourselves, you still have to rely upon the a book that says there was a national revelation, and in order to believe that you really have to trust that book.

I have discussed this with a Jewish friend on another forum. She is a very liberal Jew but she says the same thing you are saying about God speaking to the Israelites on Mt. Sinai. All she will say is that this is “the story” according to Jewish tradition but she is not convinced it actually happened. She is also somewhat agnostic when it comes to God’s existence.

On yet another forum, I conversed with two orthodox Jews, and they believe the story is true and have a strong faith in God. However, as I recall one of these men insisted to me that nobody can “know” that God exists; all we can do is believe. That topic came up because I told him that I know.

I have my own ideas about why God would reveal Himself to the Israelites as a nation that way, but of course it is just conjecture. It could be that God wanted to establish Himself as the one true God and ensure that the Jews believed in God, since they had such an important role as God’s chosen people. However, I don’t think that means that God never revealed Himself again to another Prophet/Messenger. God simply did not reveal Himself that way ever again. As I recall my Jewish friend telling me, the Israelites were really frightened by hearing God speak and they told Moses to be the go-between from then on. SO maybe since God is omniscient God knows not to try this again.

Sorry I got off track again. I would like to start a new thread on this topic but I am so busy right now so I have to be careful not to take on more than I can handle.

 

[CG Didymus]

Well, maybe, but the problem with waiting for the same Jesus is that they will never recognize Christ in His new attire, because they will keep waiting for Jesus....

I place all my hope in Him, and that other Persian who came to announce Him, He was cooler than cool.

I know, and now I got myself re-involved on two other forums, I will probably be sorry for that.

What? We weren't a big enough pain in the #%& for you? You have to go to other forums also?

But, when you talk about waiting. How long will Baha'is keep waiting for the "Most Great Peace" or even that other little "lessor" peace that Baha'is talk about. What is it that Baha'is are waiting for? A Third World War? Droughts and storms and other global disasters from people screwing up the environment?

Right now, Baha'is are just talk. I had close Baha'i friends and heard about how local Spiritual Assemblies work. They didn't do much. I've seen lots of inactive Baha'is. They just didn't fit into the Baha'i community. I saw how a few took on most of the leadership roles. They held the firesides and served on the Assembly, while others did virtually nothing. I live close to Sacramento and San Francisco, but I never hear of anything about the Baha'is. So who even hears about this "great" truth of the Baha'is?

Now those that are waiting for Jesus are told he is coming soon. Why should they believe that? The preachers have it easy. The nation of Israel got restored. The tribulations of the world today fit into the things talked about in the Book of Revelation. Super storms and fires like the world has never seen. Wars and rumors of wars and then, it says, the end will come... With all the bad stuff going on, it doesn't seem like "Christ" has already returned and is already gone. He's supposed to come and take over and fix things and get rid of evil. So by what Christians know from the Bible, the return has not happened yet. So they wait.

 

[Dawnofhope]

What? We weren't a big enough pain in the #%& for you? You have to go to other forums also?

But, when you talk about waiting. How long will Baha'is keep waiting for the "Most Great Peace" or even that other little "lessor" peace that Baha'is talk about. What is it that Baha'is are waiting for? A Third World War? Droughts and storms and other global disasters from people screwing up the environment?

Right now, Baha'is are just talk. I had close Baha'i friends and heard about how local Spiritual Assemblies work. They didn't do much. I've seen lots of inactive Baha'is. They just didn't fit into the Baha'i community. I saw how a few took on most of the leadership roles. They held the firesides and served on the Assembly, while others did virtually nothing. I live close to Sacramento and San Francisco, but I never hear of anything about the Baha'is. So who even hears about this "great" truth of the Baha'is?

Now those that are waiting for Jesus are told he is coming soon. Why should they believe that? The preachers have it easy. The nation of Israel got restored. The tribulations of the world today fit into the things talked about in the Book of Revelation. Super storms and fires like the world has never seen. Wars and rumors of wars and then, it says, the end will come... With all the bad stuff going on, it doesn't seem like "Christ" has already returned and is already gone. He's supposed to come and take over and fix things and get rid of evil. So by what Christians know from the Bible, the return has not happened yet. So they wait.

The World Wide Baha'i Community is very different from when you experienced it decades ago.

A Widening Embrace/

 

[Trailblazer]

But... Christians wrote the NT. And those writers thought they had verses from the Jewish Bible that confirms their beliefs. Peter, Paul and the gospel writers tried to make it plain what the true teachings were. Christianity is not terribly complicated. Especially for people 2000 years ago... believe in Jesus, get dunked in water and live a good life.

Oh, and don't worry about following the Law. That's "old covenant". And, of course, don't follow those Christians that added in traditions and have statues and priests and have confess your sins to them. We don't like them. And, also, watch out for the ones that come knocking on your door. They have misinterpreted the Bible and are trying to trick you. And, watch out for those "Holy Rollers". They jump around speak gibberish and prophecy and fall on the ground squirming like a fish and say it is the "gifts" of the Spirit. And, pretty much, don't trust anybody that is spreading a "false" gospel, like those that say Jesus has returned. If you only listen to us, and of course the Holy Spirit, you'll be all right. So, no, there is no contradictions. Our Church is right and all the others are wrong.

That pretty much sums it up. Christians are so divided. At least we Baha’is have a unified front.

Unfortunately, Christianity has mangled a simple message. But, part of that simple message, that you'd think doesn't need interpretation, includes that Jesus rose from the dead and that whole thing about the devil and hell. If that stuff ain't right, then Christians had misinformation from the start.

No, they misinterpreted the Bible verses and came up with false beliefs about hell and the devil, and the resurrection was just a story. Christianity is too much of a mess to straighten out now, which is one reason why we needed a “new” revelation from God.

 

[Trailblazer]

What? We weren't a big enough pain in the #%& for you? You have to go to other forums also?

No, you are not a pain at all... Nobody on this forum is a pain.

I was on those forums for about five years before I came here about a year ago, and I have friends on those forums, so I cannot abandon them. Most of my friends are ex-Christian atheists who were hurt badly by Christianity so I am not about to abandon them to the fundamentalist Christians who are telling them they are going to hell and are satanic, etc. Sure, my atheist friends give me a bad time about Baha’i and Baha’u’llah when we talk about it, but we do not talk about that much anymore. They are just personal friends. I was posting to Christians on one forum but that was short-lived because as soon as they started in me calling Baha’u’llah a false prophet and an antichrist and started insulting me personally that was it. I do not tolerate that anymore.

I have my own forum in that Delphi forum group so if people post there I am responsible to answer. It has been very slow for a long time because I have been too busy on other forums.

But, when you talk about waiting. How long will Baha'is keep waiting for the "Most Great Peace" or even that other little "lessor" peace that Baha'is talk about. What is it that Baha'is are waiting for? A Third World War? Droughts and storms and other global disasters from people screwing up the environment?

I am not waiting for any of that stuff to happen. It will happen when it happens. I do not know any other Baha’is who are waiting either. We all know it will happen eventually, but probably not in our lifetimes.

Speaking of disasters, do you watch the news? Can’t anyone see what is going on in the country, in the world? Of course the Baha’is know the big picture and why it is all happening, but I think a lot of people have their heads in the sand... It is just business as usual, shop till you drop for the holidays, live for the material world. Meanwhile people are dying in the fires and the hurricanes and the snowstorms, unprecedented weather events... Then there is politics... I have no doubt that this has something to do with God’s wrath, as Baha’u’llah predicted and Shoghi Effendi so aptly described it. What will it take to get people’s attention?

Right now, Baha'is are just talk. I had close Baha'i friends and heard about how local Spiritual Assemblies work. They didn't do much. I've seen lots of inactive Baha'is. They just didn't fit into the Baha'i community. I saw how a few took on most of the leadership roles. They held the firesides and served on the Assembly, while others did virtually nothing. I live close to Sacramento and San Francisco, but I never hear of anything about the Baha'is. So who even hears about this "great" truth of the Baha'is?

I know what you mean. Back in the 1970s when I became a Baha’i the Baha’is were on fire and teaching. I do not know what has happened since, but I think it is the materialism that has escalated in society and Baha’is are not immune to its effects. However, it does not matter what the Baha’is do. That does not change the fact of who Baha’u’llah was. People are imperfect and I think many Baha’is are caught up in the material world as much as other people. This is sad, especially considering what Baha’u’llah wrote about the world and how we should flee from it. I am an inactive Baha’i so I am in no place to judge anyone, but I have personal reasons for being inactive and I know what they are, so I do not feel guilty about that.

Now those that are waiting for Jesus are told he is coming soon. Why should they believe that? The preachers have it easy. The nation of Israel got restored. The tribulations of the world today fit into the things talked about in the Book of Revelation. Super storms and fires like the world has never seen. Wars and rumors of wars and then, it says, the end will come... With all the bad stuff going on, it doesn't seem like "Christ" has already returned and is already gone. He's supposed to come and take over and fix things and get rid of evil. So by what Christians know from the Bible, the return has not happened yet. So they wait.

They wait because they cannot interpret the Bible for beans, and they do not even bother to look at how the prophecies for the return of Christ have been fulfilled by Baha’u’llah because they want the same Jesus... This is all about what people want. It is all emotional. Reason goes completely out the window.

Christians have no idea what the Bible means. Nobody really knows except for the Baha’is, and there is a good reason for that.

Daniel 12:4 says “But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.”

Daniel 12:9 says “And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.”

Daniel 12:12 says “Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.”​

The "book" was intended to be sealed up until the time of the end, until the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days came. The 2,300 years came in 1844 and the book was unsealed. That math is explained in Some Answered Questions, 10: TRADITIONAL PROOFS EXEMPLIFIED FROM THE BOOK OF DANIEL

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So the Baha'is had Abdu'l Baha, then Shoghi Effendi, then the UHofJ… all keeping the teachings of Baha'u'llah from getting misinterpreted. Christianity had the original apostles, then Paul, and the early Church leaders, then the New Testament. The Baha'is believe they have the real truth. And who else? Christianity thought it had the truth and nobody else. You guys go against those that break away with their own version of the Baha'i teachings, and so do Christians.

Now on the Trinity. Is Jesus one with God? Is Jesus filled with God's Holy Spirit? Did Jesus forgive people of their sins, something that only God has the authority to do? Did Jesus walk on water and raise from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God the Father? If that's all you knew of truth, back 2000 years ago, would you have voted "yes" or "no" on making Jesus God?

Well they missed Muhammad, who corrected the mistakes being made.

That really says it all and it is the History of the rejection of all Gods Messages given to mankind. Each clinging exclusive to a Faith that has been fulfilled.

I see it is very refreshing that we can now see that One God is the Giver of the Faiths

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

You are right, and wrong.
Yes, many sects. But these sects are VARIANTS of Christianity when there should be NO variant.
Jesus was not Catholic, or even Protestant, let alone a Mormon or Jim Jones' People's Temple.
In the eyes of Christ are those who live as He lived. I don't mean ride donkeys, I mean as in his Sermon
on the Mount, His Ministry, His church etc.. What came in the centuries afterwards is quite frightening.

Then Christianity has become a religion that does not even remotely resemble what Christ taught. Many of the Christians I talk to on this forum struggle with the basics of their own religion, let alone that of another. Their knowledge of Islam is based on little more that prejudice and bigotry, which is a shame because this is a useful space to learn. Consequently people everywhere have lost sight of God and His purpose for humanity. Its as if they are wandering in the paths of delusion bereft of discernment to see God with their own eyes or hear His melody with their own ears.

 

[CG Didymus]

It makes more sense for the comforter Whom Jesus spoke to be a man.

Jesus was a Comforter because Jesus brought the Holy Spirit. Muhammad was another Comforter and He was also the Spirit of truth.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

It makes no sense that the Comforter is a disembodied Holy Spirit because a disembodied Holy Spirit cannot do the things mentioned in the following verses.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

John 16:13-14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Muhammad did all these things as Jesus promised He would. We taught that it is not enough to follow Him but all the prophets who have gone before Him.

Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."
Quran 3:84

The argument about Jesus being a sinner is the same argument the Jews used about Christ breaking the Sabbath. However both Muhammad and Jesus had the authority from God to bring new laws, reinterpret the existing ones and dispense with those that were no longer relevant.

Is God's Spirit alive in you? Does God speak to your heart and guide you and teach you things? Or, is that impossible because God is a disembodied spirit?

In John 14:26 in your quote, it says who the Comforter is... the Holy Ghost. And, again, in 14:17, it says that the Spirit of Truth was known to the apostles because he dwells with them and will be in them. And at Pentecost was in them. Muhammad nor Baha'u'llah was known to them nor was dwelling with them and was later in them. But, to be technically right, Baha'is have to include The Bab every time they mention these things. You have to prove there has been three "Christs" since Jesus.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Is God's Spirit alive in you? Does God speak to your heart and guide you and teach you things? Or, is that impossible because God is a disembodied spirit?

In John 14:26 in your quote, it says who the Comforter is... the Holy Ghost. And, again, in 14:17, it says that the Spirit of Truth was known to the apostles because he dwells with them and will be in them. And at Pentecost was in them. Muhammad nor Baha'u'llah was known to them nor was dwelling with them and was later in them. But, to be technically right, Baha'is have to include The Bab every time they mention these things. You have to prove there has been three "Christs" since Jesus.

As Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Bab, and Bahá’u’lláh all represent the ‘The Spirit of God’ or the ‘Holy Spirit’ then they live within our hearts and if we make efforts to live in accordance with His Teachings then we can become informed of the Divine mysteries. Some Christians believe they have this special relationship with God because the Holy Spirit dwells only in Christians. Furthermore it is only special Christians such as themselves that experience this. We are all entitled to our beliefs.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So the Baha'is had Abdu'l Baha, then Shoghi Effendi, then the UHofJ… all keeping the teachings of Baha'u'llah from getting misinterpreted. Christianity had the original apostles, then Paul, and the early Church leaders, then the New Testament. The Baha'is believe they have the real truth. And who else? Christianity thought it had the truth and nobody else. You guys go against those that break away with their own version of the Baha'i teachings, and so do Christians.

I was thinking about this, as you know with Faith, the vast majority live their Faith to try to make a better world.

We have now been shown that despite this desire to do good, that we as humans will eventually take what is of God and put a human factor into the teachings.

With the Faith of Muhammad we know now the human factor prevailed upon the death bed of Muhammad, whereas with Christianity it was a gradual process.

The Bible gives both these scenarios in my opinion.

It keeps us humble, that we do not know when we mix our will with what God has intended. If we can learn that Humility, then we may find the barriers will begin to fall, our oneness may become more apparent.

Personally my life has been a roller coaster ride of fighting to find how to be free of self over Gods Will, letting the unconstrained be ones way of life. When we know we do get it wrong, there is no pride that should dominate. I see most Baha'is would see this, as many in other Faiths would also.

But this is now, the Sun has risen, the heat is burning off the clouds and soon it the brightness will be in full splendor. CG we are one people under One God, all the Scriptures tell us to do right to each other.

What else do you need?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Is God's Spirit alive in you? Does God speak to your heart and guide you and teach you things? Or, is that impossible because God is a disembodied spirit?

This has been explained in all the Holy Books in many different ways, it has now been made more clear. Abdul baha explains the 5 levels of Spirit and how they interact.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 143-145

The levels of Spirit are Vegatable, Animal, Human, Spirit of Faith and Holy Spirit.

We are born of the Human Spirit, the Messengers are born of the Holy Spirit and to connect we need the Spirit of Faith.

This explains what it is to be born again. One has to connect with the Holy Spirit with the Spirit of Faith. To do this we have to search and make our choices.

Regards Tony